I rather they slow down and fill demand of what they have. Heck if the license allows, do some vaults for the heck of it, why invest so much in new machine development when you have demand for so many of your current pins. Some folks were freaking about only 2 new cornerstones in a year... who cares? Heck make one or none if they can't meet the demand and got current library titles that keep selling out. If they expand factories and can pump out more machines, go for it but they also got the problem that distros are going to be overflowing with product if they produce too much. Slowing down and meeting demand of current lineups seems like the best way to go.

Why do that, when they can just push off any existing sold games, until another price increase happens? It is the Stern current day way...use parts that should be for back orders, to build 'limited' versions of games, etc.

Making more vaults of popular older titles sounds good to me, as long as the prices aren’t raised.

But then you get people complaining their games are “devalued”…

I am 56 weeks since I ordered my GZ premium. I was originally estimated as getting it last August, which didn’t happen. I talked to CT in early December and asked what the odds of a late 2022 run and they said it wasn’t looking very likely. That was a $700 conversation. It’s not something I blame CT for, just the way it is.

I could have probably got one earlier from a different distro, but I was waiting on another game as well, which was supposed to be early 2023 and instead was November 2022.

In the end I was ok with the games coming at opposite times from when the other was estimated. Biggest bummer is the increase on GZ when the calendar rolled over.

Once I get my GZ I will wish you all the best and unsubscribe from this thread. I don’t think I will be a Stern buyer for a while as there are several games on my wishlist and even with inflated prices of those as well, I can get 2-3 for the price of a stern pro.

I feel the same. I've sort of sworn off Stern games for the near future. I had an EHoH AND a GZ Prem on order, but EHoH went from 8600 to 10500 while I 'waited' (all the while, the 40th anny version of EHoH had no problems being released). And GZ, well....I just got tired of the long wait and price increase as well.

Stern won't miss my business, and that's ok. But for me, it is the principle of how things are with them and price changes.

I don’t think they will miss me either. If they keep up the pace they are making games, there will be a very large pool of games in the used market, so even if something I want comes out there will be plenty available when the time comes.

The issue with Stern (and others) is that they have or are in the process of raising prices while used prices are falling.

I didnt get a GZ last year and now I have to pay $700 more. Meanwhile I'm seeing many used Sterns $1000-1500 less than last year this time. The other issue is used pins arent moving very quickly so I feel like it's only a matter of time before distro inventory starts rising this year. How deep this recession goes is the wild card.

Very tempted to pass on GZ. I will have to pass if I can't move one of my other pins.

This is a weird technical recession in the US because the jobs and general economy are still pretty strong with corporate profits at the highest level since the 1950s. What tripped the GDP-based recession switch was sky high energy prices aggravated by the Ukraine war and naked profiteering by corporations blaming supply chain issues when those are mostly long past (see: highest corporate profits since the 1950s). And even the negative growth from early last year that tripped the technical recession seems to be edging into in the rearview mirror. The strong recent US jobs report seems to bear that out, and profits are still very high. Unfortunately, the great jobs report means that the Fed will likely be raising interest rates again, strengthening the US Dollar, which is bad for the rest of the world, but GREAT for US vacations overseas. For Americans it's a great time to visit Tokyo DisneySea and see the best Disney park on the planet. It's about 1/3 off normal pricing due to the strong US dollar.

BUT that strong US dollar will also raise the prices of Stern pinball machines (and toppers!) overseas without them raising the actual price at all. And that could be bad for Stern unless they try to adjust the overseas pricing so the end user prices don't continue to go crazy due purely to exchange rate.

We'll see, but I wouldn't count on a big recession making your dream pinball lineup cheaper soon unless there are severe developments with Ukraine/Russia or China/Taiwan that destabilize things further.

There is no real recession. The negative growth is an illusion of badly analyzed year-over-year numbers. The 2022 numbers look bad only because they are being compared to year-2021 numbers that were artificially high because of time-shifted pent-up demand from the 2020 pandemic year. Compare anything from 2022 to 2019 and it looks close enough to normal for a three-year period.

Why would you think they would not raise the prices? Vaults would be priced at current prices not the price from whatever year they were run last…

Do the rerun games all come with Stern insider connected on them now, even on Maiden new run?

That's the way it's been done, so I assume that will be the way it is going forward when they re-run pre-IC games.

Both my Deadpool Pro and SW Prem I’ve bought in the last 6-8mo came with IC installed, though they’re pre-IC releases. Both 2022 builds.

Recession hasn't really hit yet though. Layoffs are just starting and believe me when I tell you, the Fed wants a lot more layoffs to cool the economy and tame inflation before it eases monetary policy again. There is potentially a very significant amount of pain ahead and unfortunately most of the supply chain and energy issues are not going away anytime soon.

I would not take the Fed's comments on their plans lightly. They have been extremely hawkish and we have never seen rates rise so fast. The effects of those hikes is yet to be felt by most people.

Yes, since Godzilla anything built after that has gotten the Insider Connect in them. This means any older titles that have been built in 2022 and on.

Sure would be nice if customers had a choice. Makes the apron look like shit
Anyone know if original “premium” aprons are available anywhere??

This year and 2024 will be bad. I hope that no pinball company has to layoff or worse close.

I think it's too soon to say how deep the recession will be but the pinball market definitely continues to cool off.

Maybe it's a good thing. Like the stock market, the pinball market was getting a little too rich and frothy. I certainly hope none of the makers have to close.

I added IC to my Iron Maiden (pro) on location and the apron is just sitting on a shelf waiting to go into my homebrew. I’m sure there is a premium owner out there for whatever pre-IC title you are thinking of with a legacy apron that would sell it to get it out of their way. Not everyone enjoys the “collecting junk on a shelf” hobby like I seem to.

Your probably right! Maybe I should put out a wanted ad….
Thanks!

Where’s your location at? I was just in AZ visiting family. Played some games while I was there.

I sure hope so, my money will be safe!

I’ve got a 10-pin spot on the west side of Tucson at Grant and I-10, and then a 4-pin spot on the east side on Houghton, just north of I-10. Tucson metro area is trying, but a slow grower so far. Phoenix metro area has grown like crazy in the last few years, but with 5X-ish the population I would expect it. Just hope to keep growing down here too.

I’ll be back end of march. I’ll have to stop by and drop some coin!
I thought about putting a few machines on route here in Hawaii, but not sure if they would do well? Also have never routed before. Do bar owners ask you to insure your machines, or anything like that.

If there is an actual recession, I think it will be very light... more like the Y2K inventory adjustment recession.

There is still a significant labor shortage in the marketplace. Any layoffs that happen will be offset by new hires. It may help to cool wage growth, which will ultimately wind down inflation.

I just don't get the belief that we are headed to a massive 2008-era recession when there is such a shortage of labor. For it to happen the absolute bottom would have to fall out of the jobs market, and based on corporate profits, I don't see that happening.

I wasn’t asked to insure my machines, but I did anyway. Lots of appealing reasons to hobby operate, as long as making a lot of money isn’t one of the things you hope to see. Out of space, create a local public place to play/compete, find local pinheads, offset cost of games, and more. Happy to chat about my experience if you want to PM me.

Cool, thanks.

I would agree that it seems unlikely we will see a deep recession or a huge uptick in unemployment, but the Fed will want to see a 1-2% uptick for sure. There is no other way to loosen the labor tightness.

That said - uncertainty, wealth shrinkage (stock market), high interest rates and inflation will continue to slow discretionary spending and that includes pinball. I can't see any other outcome, at least for the next 4-6 months.

I agree. They definitely want to cool things off. I am sure a secondary goal might be to create a little more flexibility in the jobs market.

However, for the people banking on the economy crashing, unless something dramatic happens… i don’t see it

Also I should interject - the Insider Connected does show you diagnostic info; many times I don't know if something's having an issue from the users or the owners of the location.

That is a nice line up but if you get creative there is always room for 1 more

Ya I see pins sitting and not selling and I see price cuts. Older pins locally are especially not moving.

Price hikes by Stern are hitting at the exact wrong time. If you are in the market though - the price breaks on great used pins are coming!

Hi all,

Anyone with knowledge on what’s currently in production? I read somewhere that the first couple of weeks of January are inventory control or something but also that Stern is scheduled to produce Bond Pro’s and 60th, and then Godzilla Prem and Elvira in February.

Curious as to whether this is still the current expectation or if delays have already kicked in (waiting on a Bond Pro and a Godzilla, and first post, hopefully I didn’t violate too many etiquette or protocol rules).

They just finished inventory this past week so nothing has been shipped so far in January. I know because I was waiting on a part and I keep asking them where it is.

Appreciate the intel, thank you!

Correct, Bond is on the line for the rest of the month, both pro and premium. Id guess that it will be a week of wach at least before godzilla and elvira start on the line

Bring on the misters of the dark!

p11138_i_v9_aa (resized).jpg

Misters of the dark or mistress of the dark?

I think that may be a niche website that is best used with a VPN.

Hahahhaha!

Any word on when Deadpools are on the line? Last I heard and when I ordered it was "Q1 2023" but here we are. Trying to catch some details if anyone has any?

A couple pages back somebody posted a schedule and it shows that Deadpool is being built in December '23 (10.5 months)

it's worth the wait!

Deadpool if gonna be the let’s use up these parts so we don’t have to inventory them deal.

o_O for real?? lol

Yeah, that's for real. If I finally get mine that I've had on order since June 3rd, 2021, that will be like a 2.5 year wait. A quarter of a decade. I'm hanging in here now just for sport.

How much the price go up since you ordered?

Good lord, ya I ordered in... I think July 2022.

There is a premium NIB in the classifieds if you don't want to wait.