(Topic ID: 298696)

What is on the line at Stern Pinball / Production Schedule

By beltking

2 years ago


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    There are 8,090 posts in this topic. You are on page 84 of 162.
    #4151 1 year ago
    Quoted from flynnibus:

    Frankly this is more on the distros then stern. But stern has created the situation . distros know the situation with stern is not a committed order with fixed price. yet they are often communicating to customers that they have a full sale closed… instead of a reservation or simple deposit to secure a spot.
    It’s the mismatch in what is being ’sold’ that leads to to customer grief.
    Yes, stern could lock prices when they collect the dealer commits… but they don’t and that is a known behavior. It does pass the buck to distros who are put in the hard spot about trying to lock in orders so yhey don’t get caught holding the bag as they are the ones making the commitment to stern for requested units.
    At the end of the day, stern is muddying forecasting with orders… and it puts distributors in a hard spot when the forecast is across many quarters.
    It wasn’t nearly as much a problem when there were less outstanding titles being committed to. But now soliciting over such a long future window just begs to span pricing changes.

    Yes, that is the thing that causes confusion. I’m pretty sure Stern does lock the prices for “dealer commits” but those commits only happen when they get their allocation I think which is when it’s about to go on the line. With high demand and short supply the distros can try to lock people in way ahead of time to keep themselves from the expense of holding inventory, if demand goes down then things will be sold from inventory or right before manufacture and there’d be no confusion. It’s like putting a deposit on a 2025 z06 with a car dealer right now… what will the price be and will that model even be manufactured in two years, who knows.

    #4152 1 year ago
    Quoted from flynnibus:

    Frankly this is more on the distros then stern. But stern has created the situation . distros know the situation with stern is not a committed order with fixed price. yet they are often communicating to customers that they have a full sale closed… instead of a reservation or simple deposit to secure a spot.
    It’s the mismatch in what is being ’sold’ that leads to to customer grief.
    Yes, stern could lock prices when they collect the dealer commits… but they don’t and that is a known behavior. It does pass the buck to distros who are put in the hard spot about trying to lock in orders so yhey don’t get caught holding the bag as they are the ones making the commitment to stern for requested units.
    At the end of the day, stern is muddying forecasting with orders… and it puts distributors in a hard spot when the forecast is across many quarters.
    It wasn’t nearly as much a problem when there were less outstanding titles being committed to. But now soliciting over such a long future window just begs to span pricing changes.

    I agree with most of that but think Stern has a big hand in this too. It’s not all the distros fault.

    Pretend you’re new to the hobby like the GZ Prem poster above. Let’s say I just played Jurassic Prem at a fun center with my kids last night and they loved it. You go to Stern’s website and today it says MSRP $8999.

    You and I both know there’s not a JP Prem in stock anywhere and know it won’t be run again in 2022. So what does that mean on January 1??? $9500-9700 I think, right?

    Stern knows their short-mid term production schedule and also has contingency plans. There will not be a NIB JP Prem run for $8999 but there are people wanting to buy it right now and I bet deposits will be taken with the idea that $8999 will be honored. It’s honored on the MFG’s website.

    Going back to the GZ guy above, he got 0% financing, great, but has has he been fully informed that it won’t be $8999, and depending on when his ships in 2023, could even have TWO price increases applied???

    #4153 1 year ago

    My wife’s a new travel agent and we travel a ton. Last year people were not booking due to covid and stupid rules about vaccinations. Now that Canada and Europe opened up things are nuts and you can’t get tickets to anything. We booked Europe for 40% off during covid now it’s even more. Cruises were running half full now they are at capacity. New pinball people are traveling more and not buying $7-9k pins like a year or two ago. Less new buyers coming in I’d say hurts new and used market.

    #4154 1 year ago

    Just wanted to put out there I just got delivery on my Godzilla Premium Monday this week. I ordered late April 2022 and I got in the Godzilla Premium run from early Oct. Waiting on a Deadpool Pro now...

    #4155 1 year ago
    Quoted from beltking:

    Less new buyers coming in I’d say hurts new and used market.

    Unless you're a buyer.

    #4156 1 year ago

    People are acting like distros having stock is a bad thing rather than a normal thing. They won’t be panicking to have stock. I agree that the price increases and other things will slow nib sales but probably not below pre covid levels, when plenty of games were in stock usually.

    NIB stock is not only good if you want a nib but also means used prices will get back to normality.

    #4157 1 year ago
    Quoted from mstang01:

    Yes, that is the thing that causes confusion. I’m pretty sure Stern does lock the prices for “dealer commits” but those commits only happen when they get their allocation I think which is when it’s about to go on the line. With high demand and short supply the distros can try to lock people in way ahead of time to keep themselves from the expense of holding inventory, if demand goes down then things will be sold from inventory or right before manufacture and there’d be no confusion. It’s like putting a deposit on a 2025 z06 with a car dealer right now… what will the price be and will that model even be manufactured in two years, who knows.

    Stern wants inventory at the dealers. It’s why they swap around what they build so frequently now. They wanted to break the old model of the dealer network only having the latest title for customers to pick from. They also made it harder for dealers to just drop ship from the factory and weaned out the distros that were just pass-throughs.

    Obviously dealers want to not get stuck with excess inventory…. But this idea of existing titles being promised and sold 6-12-18mon out is a relatively new concept. The long forecast is leading to way more preselling than we had in the past. This grief over price increases after orders is a bad side effect.

    #4158 1 year ago
    Quoted from Yoko2una:

    What you have to be aware of is that Stern doesn't allow you to be locked into a price. So if it comes in let's say late 2023, you may be paying no interest, but the overall loan amount may be higher.
    My friend had a Mando Prem on order for about a year. Premiums had a big price increase between order and delivery and though they paid a deposit, they had to pay the balance on the higher price once the game shipped. Totally bogus IMO, but until someone is offering better deals, Stern controls the market and the rules.

    Yes. The store made this point very clear on the pricing. I will be part of the first production run in 2023 so hoping that's before another price increase but even if it isn't, getting payments spread over 24 months makes things tolerable. Even my down payment of $1k is at 6 months no interest.

    #4159 1 year ago
    Quoted from NoSkills:

    People are acting like distros having stock is a bad thing rather than a normal thing. They won’t be panicking to have stock. I agree that the price increases and other things will slow nib sales but probably not below pre covid levels, when plenty of games were in stock usually.
    NIB stock is not only good if you want a nib but also means used prices will get back to normality.

    The dealers might start offering a bit off the retail also. Use to get games a few hundred off with free shipping and no tax. Paying retail is fine, but I think we should get free shipping like Game Exchange offers or something for being repeat customers.
    Also, it just might be stern has made the max the market wants of the current games. I would guess if stern started making Tron, lord of the rings Stranger things to name a few, they would be flying off the shelf.

    #4160 1 year ago

    What i feel for is tbd folks who try to buy at release or within a very short period… and get bumped way out including with price escalation. That’s no good….

    #4161 1 year ago
    Quoted from Damonator:

    Prior to COVID, most distributors had pro/prem games in stock and you could find the same gently used titles for $500-$1k under MSRP.
    My guess is the price increases will return the market to the pre-COVID model where most people buy used unless a new title is a dream theme.

    I agree.. And that's ok. Covid really distorted the market in every way.

    Quoted from Crumbalimb:

    The dealers might start offering a bit off the retail also.

    I think they will have to. Prices may have gone up too fast and people seem to be choking on them a bit.

    #4162 1 year ago

    I don't understand the price increases really... the only newer game I could get close to what I paid for (and not take a huge loss) is Godzilla... so why would I want to pay more now and take a even bigger loss? And like most here, I have the money to buy what I want, but I'm not reckless and/or a sucker

    I used to have a "price to pay to have it at home" mentality as it was reasonable, but now it's a huge kick in the nuts to the tune of thousands. I think the newer guys are the ones buying the NIB at the high prices and the guys like me that have been in the hobby for 20 years are playing on location and buying used and letting the NIB buyer take the hit.

    #4163 1 year ago
    Quoted from Pinball-Wiz:

    I don't understand the price increases really... the only newer game I could get close to what I paid for (and not take a huge loss) is Godzilla... so why would I want to pay more now and take a even bigger loss? And like most here, I have the money to buy what I want, but I'm not reckless and/or a sucker
    I used to have a "price to pay to have it at home" mentality as it was reasonable, but now it's a huge kick in the nuts to the tune of thousands. I think the newer guys are the ones buying the NIB at the high prices and the guys like me that have been in the hobby for 20 years are playing on location and buying used and letting the NIB buyer take the hit.

    Everyone has to decide what it is worth to them to own whatever pinball machine they are interested in. To most non-Pinside people, paying even $5k for a pinball machine is completely bonkers. Most leisure/entertainment purchases lose significant value over time (not counting low-volume collectables like fine art or extremely rare cars). The question to you is why are you buying a pinball machine at all?

    Like many have already said, a saturation point is coming (or may be here already) where there are a lot of expensive games out there and not enough new buyers so the hobby is going to slow down somehow. The prices on the secondary market are going to come down because there just aren't enough buyers for $10k games to sustain it. So are you OK with buying a game at $10k (or whatever) and selling it a few years later for a couple thousand less? Is the entertainment/fun/convenience value worth it for you? I think if you are viewing these games as mostly financial investments, you are going to be disappointed going forward.

    #4164 1 year ago
    Quoted from beltking:

    My wife’s a new travel agent and we travel a ton. Last year people were not booking due to covid and stupid rules about vaccinations. Now that Canada and Europe opened up things are nuts and you can’t get tickets to anything. We booked Europe for 40% off during covid now it’s even more. Cruises were running half full now they are at capacity. New pinball people are traveling more and not buying $7-9k pins like a year or two ago. Less new buyers coming in I’d say hurts new and used market.

    That and the economy which many believe will be depressed for some time, especially with the energy policies.

    How long can these prices sustain themselves? The problem, is that the profit/cash flow is now calculated into their financial plans. Labor/Parts - all increasing. They can't just start reducing prices of existing or future pins.

    I'm hoping demand keeps them afloat, otherwise bad things are on the horizon for pinball.

    #4165 1 year ago

    I just got notice that my machine is in. They must have received additional stock in the latest run. I'm pretty happy with this development and looking forward to getting it in house.

    #4166 1 year ago
    Quoted from superNoid:

    Just wanted to put out there I just got delivery on my Godzilla Premium Monday this week. I ordered late April 2022 and I got in the Godzilla Premium run from early Oct. Waiting on a Deadpool Pro now...

    superNoid Did your price go up at all or still the same when you ordered?

    #4167 1 year ago
    Quoted from Grimstead:

    Did your price go up at all or still the same when you ordered?

    It's the same price, but I only ordered it 12 days ago.

    #4168 1 year ago
    Quoted from makins117:

    It's the same price, but I only ordered it 12 days ago.

    whom did you order from?

    #4169 1 year ago

    Abt Electronics in Glenview, IL. They are the best. They have the best customer service. I get free shipping to the house and a low cost full setup.

    #4170 1 year ago

    Still waiting on Deadpool Premium, EHOH Premium and Bond LE. I regret trading my EHOH...its such a great game.

    #4171 1 year ago
    Quoted from makins117:

    Abt Electronics in Glenview, IL. They are the best. They have the best customer service. I get free shipping to the house and a low cost full setup.

    What game did you buy?

    #4172 1 year ago
    Quoted from finman2000:

    What game did you buy?

    Godzilla Premium.

    #4173 1 year ago

    Meanwhile.. There's still Rush Pro and Premium on Amazon

    #4174 1 year ago
    Quoted from Gubbin:

    Meanwhile.. There's still Rush Pro and Premium on Amazon

    With the Amazon credit card 5% cash back, that's like $450 off. Still too expensive in my opinion.

    #4175 1 year ago
    Quoted from seenev:

    With the Amazon credit card 5% cash back, that's like $450 off. Still too expensive in my opinion.

    Qualifies for free shipping. Interestingly, it says returnable until January of 2023

    #4176 1 year ago
    Quoted from ZoraShinoda:

    Qualifies for free shipping. Interestingly, it says returnable until January of 2023

    I wonder how that works? "I didn't like it, sending it back"

    Interestingly enough. I know a guy who got a Star Wars Premium on there for $7500. Not sure if that was a mis price or what. But they honored it it. He got it in 2 weeks.

    #4177 1 year ago
    Quoted from Gubbin:

    I wonder how that works? "I didn't like it, sending it back"
    Interestingly enough. I know a guy who got a Star Wars Premium on there for $7500. Not sure if that was a mis price or what. But they honored it it. He got it in 2 weeks.

    I also wonder what the 3 year protection plan would get you. Dimpled playfields, damaged scoops etc all replaced?

    #4178 1 year ago
    Quoted from TheClownpuncher:

    I also wonder what the 3 year protection plan would get you. Dimpled playfields, damaged scoops etc all replaced?

    I guess it would depend who the merchant actually is on these. I think someone tracked them down to a distributor a while ago but I don’t think it’s Stern or Amazon though it says Amazon…

    #4179 1 year ago
    Quoted from mstang01:

    I guess it would depend who the merchant actually is on these. I think someone tracked them down to a distributor a while ago but I don’t think it’s Stern or Amazon though it says Amazon…

    I was in under the impression it was direct from Stern. I'm also really new to HUO pinball, patiently waiting on my DP pro.

    #4180 1 year ago
    Quoted from Gubbin:

    Meanwhile.. There's still Rush Pro and Premium on Amazon

    I suspect the premiums in particular will disappear before year end price hike.

    #4181 1 year ago

    Would love to wheel that baby into Whole Foods for a return, lol.

    #4182 1 year ago

    Looks like Bonds are finally shipping. This photo was taken at Stern 18 hours ago.

    A541EDF3-44D6-4A28-9E4C-8C0925F0A20F (resized).jpegA541EDF3-44D6-4A28-9E4C-8C0925F0A20F (resized).jpeg
    #4183 1 year ago

    Is that the overseas version? I notice there is only one coin slot.

    #4184 1 year ago
    Quoted from hiker2099:

    Is that the overseas version? I notice there is only one coin slot.

    100% unless Stern decide to cut cost.

    #4185 1 year ago

    So how much will the Godzilla Premium I have a deposit on cost me?

    #4186 1 year ago
    Quoted from Bohm:

    So how much will the Godzilla Premium I have a deposit on cost me?

    Nothing if you cancel your order due to the price change.

    #4187 1 year ago
    Quoted from Bohm:

    So how much will the Godzilla Premium I have a deposit on cost me?

    I spoke to my Dist last weekend and he thought it would be $300-500 for the one I ordered this August. He won't know till he sees the invoice which (good news) should be here this week.

    #4188 1 year ago

    I was told 9500 with price increase. That is shipped.

    #4189 1 year ago
    Quoted from seenev:

    Nothing if you cancel your order due to the price change.

    Oh Godzilla.... Why do you have to be so good?

    #4190 1 year ago
    Quoted from 1967Firebird:

    I was told 9500 with price increase. That is shipped.

    That would square with what my Dist told me then

    #4191 1 year ago
    Quoted from Grimstead:

    I spoke to my Dist last weekend and he thought it would be $300-500 for the one I ordered this August. He won't know till he sees the invoice which (good news) should be here this week.

    Why would you have a price increase now on one you ordered in August ( unless they increased shipping etc)

    #4192 1 year ago
    Quoted from mstang01:

    Why would you have a price increase now on one you ordered in August ( unless they increased shipping etc)

    No price locks - you pay current rate when it's ready to ship

    #4193 1 year ago
    Quoted from WeirPinball:

    No price locks - you pay current rate when it's ready to ship

    In other words BOHICA

    #4194 1 year ago

    I’m hearing bond le on line in a week.

    #4195 1 year ago
    Quoted from beltking:

    I’m hearing bond le on line in a week.

    Why did you say LEs in December in another thread?

    #4196 1 year ago

    Updated from Zach’s podcast.

    #4197 1 year ago

    So is it kinda accepted knowledge that Elvira run in Nov has been bumped to March? Anyone hearing anything reliable?

    11
    #4198 1 year ago
    Quoted from Jkush18:

    So is it kinda accepted knowledge that Elvira run in Nov has been bumped to March? Anyone hearing anything reliable?

    I heard they were waiting for 2 or 3 more price hikes before they did another run of that one.

    #4199 1 year ago
    Quoted from TheClownpuncher:

    I heard they were waiting for 2 or 3 more price hikes before they did another run of that one.

    Lolololol

    #4200 1 year ago

    Market is changing quickly, used market dropping quickly, games are sitting. Pricing will be very different present vs 1st quarter of 2023. Stern might end up sitting in some of these if they go too high.

    There are 8,090 posts in this topic. You are on page 84 of 162.

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