Pinball Pro speakers are awesome. They're not really that expensive for what you get and what went into them...

You are paying for the convenience of the kit, the plug and play factor. The speakers themselves are cheap as hell.

I always notice a huge upgrade in audio when I put pinball pro speakers in. Dat sub!

I recently asked flipper fidelity for specs on his speakers cause I wanted to know the same exact thing. What makes them any different then off the shelf speakers.

His reply was that he would not give me any specs because the thought I wanted to copy them..... So Im going to use some speakers and a crossover I bought a while ago and have sitting in the closet.

Id like to hear more, Im leaning towards ordering a set of PinballPro for LOTR or Spidey

If you've never installed PBP speakers and you're on the fence, I say go for it. They really give your game a lot more punch, brings it to life in a big way.

I have three sets of Flipper Fidelity speakers in my IM, TFLE, and STTNG. I'm very happy with them all. In addition to the speakers, wiring, volume knob, and crossover; for the Sterns (and I think the STTNG) there are wood adapters that go between the speaker panel and new speaker to allow for spacing on the larger speaker that allow you to keep the stock look.

I think it's key to remember that ANY speaker upgrade would be beneficial to the cheap chinese speakers shipped with the game. But the crossover and volume adjustment allow you to fine tune the game to how you like.

And yes, you're paying for the convenience factor too, but it's worth it IMO.

Chris

Oh yea, I'm sure you are correct on the Chinese thing. But, you asked what you got, and I told ya.

I just know, I'm happy with my purchases.

Chris (from MI)

If you'd like some pictures of what I have installed with the kits I received, I'd be happy to oblige. Just let me know...

Chris (from MI)

Agreed. I don't think it's a secret that you can pick up a pair of inexpensive coax speakers from your favorite e-tailer and achieve the same results.

If you own a crimper and get the right Molex connectors you're almost all the way there.

It also helps to know how to cut MDF or something similar to fashion adapters for the speaker cutouts. They're almost always necessary due to the fact that the tweeters protrude more than the backbox panel permits without modification.

You can also analyze the manner by which the speakers in the head are driven and change that if you desire. The wiring varies by manufacturer and epoch. Audio grade resistors will compensate for differences in impedance that may result.

So, you end up with a nice little order from Parts Express unless ya have the stuff handy either at home or at work.

Contrast that with ordering a kit from Mike Pupo which installs in literally 15 minutes.

I've done both. Either way has its pros and cons.

I've got FF on both, made a big difference to me........

Gonna try FF on Ac/dc premium now.....

You will hear a bigger improvement on Spidey, but neither SM nor LOTR have very good audio.

I put FF in all my sterns. Brings out the sound immensely. I didn't do ACDC for about 8 mos then got some extra $; installed em in ACDC, the sub is huge! And the difference...amazing! Love it. I also like the sound of using an external sub but I honestly don't like the ghetto look so much and enjoy free space under my pins.

FF speakers in the backbox for LoTR is very nice. Sub can remain factory. That's what I did to my LoTR and I remember you and others saying it was the best sounding LoTR they've ever heard?

I'm with you, don't like the external sub look or sound as much, like the feel of the bass in the pin.....

I agree with that, but you need them on both imo......

Flipper fidelity and pinball pro speakers are fine for the job. But you can build your own set up if you know anything about audio. The point is to get something that's plenty efficient. You won't get good results using something like kicker competition. Those sound great but require decent power to drive them. I've had good results with clarion 4" coax for the backbox in sterns. 4 ohms are ok because you wire them in series or add resistors to lower the backbox vol to get more out of the sub. For subs, I prefer the mcm 10" here: http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/MCM-AUDIO-SELECT-55-1525-/55-1525

These 10" are very efficient at 91db and resonate under 30 hz for good bass. For sterns you need an inductor to cut the highs: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=266-572

This speaker and crossover generally out performs whatever flipper fidelity and pinball pro sells.

LOL

You got that 100% backwards my friend.

Sub in LOTR helps a LOT.

Factory speakers are fine in LOTR (and that's what were in yours when you sold it to me...along with the FF Subwoofer).

I had FF speakers in the backbox on my prior LOTR LE, and it did very little to help the sound. In fact, those speakers were less sensitive, and I think the sound quality may have actually suffered a bit with the upgraded speakers in it.

I think I will stick with the external Polk Audio subs I use...

I'm with you on this as well. After doing the amp upgrade for the woofer in my ACDC, I'm definitely going with the standard external sub from now on - the internal sub causes way too much vibration with the glass and rattles like crazy when the sub hits; compare that to my other pins running off the PSW10's and sound perfectly smooth when the pins "drop dat bass!".

But if Amazon doesn't drop the prices back down to the $69/$89 dollar range for the black/cherry finish, I'm going to look for a new external sub if needed (the cherry finish is like $190 now, compared to $89 when I bought one over a year ago).

I take it you saw Newegg just had them for $70 after mail in rebate, Dito just had a thread on it, they were still only 100 after that 2day sale for a limited. I should just post on my Facebook (I despise Facebook) that Im looking for used powered subwoofers and see what pops up.

There are a few people that have generated instructions for upgrading Pinball speakers..

http://www.dziedzic.us/wpc_speaker_replacement.html

http://www.thekorn.net/speakers/

There is always the self-help method, should you not desire to pay for a plug & play system.

Robert

There are many ways to improve the sound in your pinball machine. If you are an audio guy and comfortable with building your own setup, then go for it. If you want something more plug and play then a kit is the way to go! Doing a speaker mod in your pinball machine involves much more than just plugging different speakers into the existing wires. You could do that but you are then not comparing apples to apples.

I work for PinballPro helping build the speaker kits they sell. I can't and won't speak for Flipper Fidelity, but I can tell you that with PinballPro you are getting more than just an off-the-shelf speaker. What you are getting is a driver that is actually manufactured specifically for PinballPro. They researched and tested and came up with the parameters and specifications they determined were best suited to work with the low power and unique output range of your pinball machine sound amplifier. Basically you have a custom tailored speaker for your machine. This testing and custom speaker design has been done for each different generation and manufacturer of SS pinball machines. This means not only are you getting a custom designed pinball speaker, but you are getting one designed for your specific game!

To answer the OP's question of what all do you get, here goes.

All the wiring harnesses and L-pads and speaker mounting plates and adapters and crossovers are hand made/assembled by us in the shop. We take pride in our product and test the systems at many points during the build process. I can't speak for the cost of the materials, but I can attest to the time and attention that goes into each kit we make. Sitting at the bench and soldering the right components to the boards (depending on model), measuring and cutting and crimping and soldering the wire harnesses/controls, soldering and mounting the boards to the subs, etc takes a lot of time and each job is different based on the kit we are making. It's not a cookie cutter system because the pinball manufacturers all used different designs, sometimes even in the same series of game systems! You can be sure that the kit you buy from PinballPro will be made to the same high standards we would apply to anything we do with our own pinball machines.

Add Greg's personal customer service to your order (both during the order process if needed and also with install help if needed) and you can see that you are getting more than just a couple speakers in a box.

Hope that helps answer your question. Homebuilt speaker mods are not for everyone. That's why we have PinballPro.

I have the Pinball pro full kit with the 12" woofer in my AVLE. Sweeeeeeeeeeeeet!

PP && FF are great sets and are very easily to install. I've used both and have also made my own using OTS speakers. There isn't a noticeable (to me) difference in sound using similar speakers to those in the kits. Pinball audio is not exactly high quality so you probably don't need high end speakers, but those paper speakers found in most pins sound pretty bad (IMHO).

You can save $$$ going the DIY approach, but if you aren't a DIY kinda person, the kits are awesome.

I just did a DIY kit for my LOTR, and it cost about $60 in parts plus my time to built/install.

There may not be a huge noticeable sound difference is some situations but if you are only swapping out speakers you may be putting your sound board amp at risk. The difference may be more noticeable in the way the system taxes the sound amplifier section of your machine. A PinballPro system is designed with that in mind.

I grabbed the signal off of internal amps on the sound boards and cabled to the phono input of old receivers. And actually, in the case of BSD, instead of a receiver I used a guitar amplifier. Now that's fun!
Mini alligator clips and schematics are your friends. It's been so long ago not sure if I did it by trial and error (getting the output at correct point/level), or maybe with the help of some Yahoo'ing.
I can take some pics or give you the cap/resistor #'s that I connected to if you're interested. I have 4 machines, each with a different type sound board. 2-Williams, 2-DE/Sega.

Not if you use speakers with the same resistance, usually 4 ohms.

Robert

thats awesome. thanks for posting these links!

Spend your money on a Polk powered sub. I have pinball pro installed on some games and volume is much lower. My Metallica with stock speakers and Polk sounds better than ac/dc with pinball pro and Polk sub. I don't understand why but that is the way it is.

On my refinery metallica prem I asked Hemi to do a speaker upgrade. He suggested external Polk and remove factory resistor on back box speakers. Sounds amazing.

for straight replacing Markmon is right on, an MCM woofer with treated paper cone cloth surround are the best bang for the buck I've seen for Db/w output, and really inexpensive.
http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/55-2951
8-ohm 10", reaches just below 40hz, 95db/w/m, nice specs.
http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/55-2950
8-ohm 8", 65hz, 94db/w/m, very good output for an 8".

if you want good hitting bass without a powered sub on the floor they'll sure do it.
not knocking the companies making specific speaker kits, most plain jane factory speakers in the backbox can sound a whole lot better just for having some solid bass reenforcement behind them.

i had the same thing happen. i picked up an sttng with an older pinball pro speaker kit installed and the sound was a little low and muffled. started to crackle at 70%. just for kicks i ordered a new set. smae issue. then upon further inspection i found some little "carbidingulator" clipped onto the audio circuit. basically a volume pot with alligator clips on it. when I removed that the audio from the panel speakers got louder but the sub was still overpowering the panel speakers. i then took the brand new kit and put it in my shadow. same thing. stock speakers were about 30% louder and cleaner. the pinball pro speakers look really nice and i really wanted to make them work. Greg was really cool and helpful but they just didn't work for me. He took them back with no problem. maybe it's just my ears but to me it sounds like the amp doesnt have enough power to drive them properly. I ordered a Sony sub from amazon yesterday for 99 bucks. gonna hook it to the shadow first then try to find some speakers closer to stock and put them back in sttng and hook up the other channel of the sub to that and see what happens.

Thank you guys!!!! I had no idea MCM had speakers..... ordering some now for an old jukebox i bought a few weeks ago. Couldnt find any cheap 8 ohm speakers until now!!!

YVMW lurch, not kidding about bang for the buck loud, your jukebox should rock! inexpensive but not cheap, you'll see-hear that when you install them. driving a pair of their 12's and 8's with a little modified Lepai 2020A+ is 13w/ch clean, you'd think theres a LOT more power involved, is funny.
(vibrating the ground 40ft away outdoors from 13+13 watts?!)

with small power, speaker efficiency is everything. high power lower efficiency units will just suck the guts right out of a small amp section, distorting before the speakers ever start to get loud, ouch. they can also get an amp hot and cause a failure just trying to get moderate volume from them. its hard to find 4" speakers that'll do 88db or more from the 1st watt of power, if they're good leave them be. efficient stock speakers can suffer for being hit with too much bass power when turned up, is pretty simple to cap out everything below 3-400hz so they dont rattle-distort so badly (bass travel in the same cone, muddying delivery of mids and highs). not saying we expect audiophile quality from a pinball machine's audio tracks and amp section, but sometimes it can be improved a bunch.
-most 2.1 stereos and home theater audio dont drive much bass into the satellite speakers.

if you want to get a little crazier, grab a high level to RCA line level adapter, run it feeding a Lepai LP-838 or 168HA 2.1 amp to drive the speakers instead, gives you volume+tone controls forward, separate subwoofer volume to easily tailor the sound about any way you like (and still be "in cab"). easy to do and the machine's amp section becomes an untaxed cool running pre-amp, oh hey now..
going that route could do a whole bunch more than a simple speaker swap, at much lower cost.
its basically what Spooky has done for AMH's audio, no doubt it rocks, I have a few of these amps.
an 838 wants about 12v 4A, a 168 is ok with 6-8A power supply, 10A if you want louder(?!)..

-definitely something to think about, you can swap speakers all day and never be happy with 3-5w worth of audio power (and lack of tone controls?), or give it the "Tim Allen" treatment AR-AR-AR!
less efficient higher clarity speakers wouldnt be an issue, no playing with L-pads or crossovers etc.