I hear a lot of people throwing the word "flow" around -- especially on games that I consider have ZERO flow... And sometimes I'm thinking -- What? Is he f***ing crazy? Perhaps -- Or... do we just have different definitions of flow?

Let's see if we can create a "best" definition of flow...

1. Read all posts before you post, and see if your opinion has already been stated.
2. If you see a post that matches your precise view, vote for it !
3. If you don't see a definition you agree with, give your unique definition of flow, and expect some votes.
4. When we see some heavily voted definitions, I'll create a poll, and we can vote for the best definition.

Suggestions for creating your definition of flow:
1. Define what you think flow is.
2. Define what you think flow is NOT.

--> In this thread, since we are not rating baby pictures, please DO use your "thumbs down" button liberally. If you disagree with a definition, knock that sucker down. We want the definitions with the most points to rise up.

-mof

reserved.

1. I think flow means player interaction with the ball. I think the formula would look like this:
(Flipper Button Pushes** + Cabinet Nudges / Time) = Player Interaction.

(FBP+CN)/T=PI=Flow

I think flow is NOT the following:
2. anything that slows the ball down -- such as most ramp ball returns (habitrails)
3. anything that stops the ball (multi-ball lock, cellars, (some toys), unnecessary DMD animations/sounds/songs, flippers that force a trap nearly every time they are raised, etc.)
4. when shots cannot be made via backhand, requiring a post-transfer (which sometimes takes many steps) to make a shot**

** Ideally, most shots can be backhanded from either flipper. I would hesitate to count flipper passes as "action" -- alley passes to activate inlane switches, I certainly *would* count.

-mof

LOL ! No... she was the waitress in Alice... "Kiss my Grits!"
-mof

(I don't know those two games very well.) You say the ball never stops. Curious -- does the ball ever lose ANY of its natural momentum in any of these shots mentioned? (For example, on a clean outer orbit shot, I would say "no perceivable momentum is lost.")

-mof

I'm still seeing the word "flow" kicked around to mean different things to different people.

1. What does "flow" mean to you?
2. In what games do you see the most flow?
3. What is the "ABSENCE of flow" feel like to you?
4. In what games do you see the least flow?

-mof

My updated definition of flow looks more like this:

FLOW IS:
1. The ball is frequently fed from one shot to another (Grand Lizard, Seawitch)
2. The ball's speed is not considerably altered via any toy/ramp/mechanism. (Grand Lizard, Seawitch)

FLOW IS NOT:
1. When the ball is shot, and then the ball is stopped via toy/ramp/mechanism, to the point that the physics I applied to the ball with my shot is drastically, or completely removed from the ball. Either the trajectory or speed of the ball should still be influencing where the ball is seconds later. (Most DMDs and Moderns)

I'm starting to think it might be helpful to start using the phrase:

"Solid state flow" -- to mean my definition of flow
and
"DMD ramp flow" -- to mean the "spoon feed the ball safely back to the flippers after you make a ramp shot" definition.

But I don't want to assume there are only 2 definitions of flow being used. There may be 3 or 4 or more...

-mof

Would you call it flow, when you hit the ball to the ferris wheel in Cyclone, and wait about 10 seconds to shoot again?

What does "uninterrupted" mean to you?

Back to Cyclone -- is it flow (for you) when you hit the Dracula shot, and wait 10 seconds for a prize on the backbox, and the ball comes back via the scoop to the flippers?

I'd say in that case the ball is "held hostage" for 10 seconds, and I can't interact with the ball. I'd say the same thing for the Ferris wheel ramp. My "action" is held hostage for the sake of an amusing toy/ramp/mechanism.

-mof

But the Ferris wheel never "held" the ball like a scoop or ball lock does, it always moves.
Help. This flow stuff is t-r-i-c-k-y.
-mof

So it sounds like "velocity manipulation" is a factor for you.
-mof

Thanks -- I'm starting to think that my favorite flow games are simply 4-flipper games (pre-DMD) where you are almost NEVER more than 1/2 a second away from having another action available to you (flip/nudge). What I can't explain is why I don't "feel" like Black Knight has great flow, perhaps it's the "way" the ball feeds abruptly to the lower flippers, and not-gracefully to the upper flippers. Perhaps the frequent ball locks takes away from the "feel" a little bit. It's REALLY tricky to lock a ball in GL, and there just isn't a ball lock in Seawitch. The ball travel is very graceful from lower to upper PF in GL since it's on one level.

I don't have this flow stuff "all figure out" yet -- I'm taking stabs at trying to figure out when games "feel" like they have flow and which ones don't -- and trying to see what traits they have in common to make sense of it all.

-mof