(Topic ID: 141599)

What have I become?


By Edenecho

4 years ago



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  • 52 posts
  • 27 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by Frax
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    #1 4 years ago

    As sung with the voice of Johnny Cash and Trent Reznor. Okay, maybe not so dead serious as the title might imply, but..

    When I started the hobby in 2013, straight into competitive pinball I was always very annoyed with people "abusing" the game. Even excessive "down slapping" on the lockbar still seems unnecessary, but I aknowledge the need for slap saving and nudging. Sliding the game many cm's to the either side to save a ball has also been a great NO NO.

    But lately, I have found myself sliding the game, if it can be done without full force. If in a tournament and someone saves the ball from draining with a slide, and I refuse to slide and loose the ball, then its a disadvantage for me.

    I guess I have come to the conclusion, that if you dont want people to slide a game, then put on rubber feet and set the tilt very tight.
    After a shove to the side and a tilt, players will hopefully not do it again.

    Anyone else have any opinions on sliding and similar? Is it the players responsibility to not slide a machine to save a ball if its possible without tilting, or the owner of the machine that has to set the bar by adding tilt and rubber legs? Is sliding "abusive" to the machine?

    The ovious abuse like hitting and kicking the glass, cabinet or legs in rage after drain is not a question, thats 100 % not tolerable.

    #2 4 years ago

    You're supposed to slide the machine, slap save and nudge. It's what separates the mediocre players from the top dogs. Anyone that says it's abuse has no idea what they're talking about. I've "beat the shit" out of my machines playing them and they look brand spanking new. Honestly the worst damage you could do is bend a leg or strip the leg bolt brackets and that would take a hulk like move to do and both of those components are easily replaceable. I just don't understand people that treat these games like they're made out of a delicate flower. If you don't want me shaking your game, then set the tilt tight and put it on rubber feet like you said.

    #3 4 years ago

    I just put tight tilt on all my machines and the super sliders on the feet.

    Regardless of if you want people sliding the machine or not, reducing the friction at the feet reduces damage to the cabinet. Otherwise, when the feet stick/dig into the ground, all the force of the slide is absorbed by the joint/leg bracket.

    #4 4 years ago

    Why would you refuse to slide the machine? That's how the game is played. Might as well refuse to use the flippers to avoid burning out the coils.

    And as for the the question "What have I become?"
    ...a better player.

    #5 4 years ago

    Well, that was my early perception, "respect the machine/owner" if he does not want you to slide. Also if the machine has rubber feet and barely can be moved, and people force it despite it, then it does not seem like the best for the cabinet/legs/joints as mentioned above.

    Just dont know to what degree sliding the machine is okay, or not.

    #6 4 years ago

    Sliding a machine is an accepted move to save a ball. I am for all legal moves that saves a ball. Rage tilting, kicking, slamming lockdown bar, etc is unacceptable in my opinion. It's bad sportsmanship. I know that really none of that is hurting the game, but it's just bad sportsmanship. That and seeing a 40 year old man throw a full blown temper tantrum is stupid too. I cannot stop these things from happening, but it definitely takes some of the fun out of competitive pinball if it happens around me.

    #7 4 years ago

    If an owner of a machine gets testy when their machine gets a slide or a nudge put to it, they need to take a deep breath and relax; these things were designed to be for COMMERCIAL USE - that means drunk guys in a bar slamming them around! I agree any sort of rage kicking, slamming, etc is TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE - those folks need anger management - it's just pinball, not arms and legs - besides you can always just hit start again...

    #8 4 years ago
    Quoted from Edenecho:

    Just dont know to what degree sliding the machine is okay, or not.

    it is OK until it tilts. Then the game tells you to stop. The plumbob is a switch like every other one in the game.

    It is ONLY not OK when rage tilting out of frustration (and that is only when it is not your game).

    #9 4 years ago
    Quoted from AJB4:

    besides you can always just hit start again...

    Really? I'll have to remember that next time I'm losing in a tournament...

    #10 4 years ago
    Quoted from Edenecho:

    excessive "down slapping" on the lockbar....

    Can someone explain this move? Sounds like something I need to learn lol.

    Lets see, how do I word this without it sounding too harsh...? Now this is just my opinion but I have found that people who frown on gentle leaning or sliding etc... are guys that

    a) Don't really understand the history of pinball.
    b) New to pinball in general and don't understand how to influence the ball by leaning/sliding and get mad when they see you do it.
    c) Collectors that have 20 machines but couldn't tell you the rules on any of them.

    These machines were made to take your money. There is nothing wrong with exploiting the physics involved to try and gain an edge. Of course as long as your not hurting the machine. Even with a tight tilt, a player that 'understands' still has an edge over a player that will just watch the ball drain and not give the machine a jiggle lol

    #11 4 years ago

    ....my sweetest friend....
    everyone I know,
    goes away...in the end....
    Very powerful track. Love both versions.

    I cut the tilt mechs out of my machines...give 'er all ya got !

    #12 4 years ago
    Quoted from JosephT:

    Can someone explain this move? Sounds like something I need to learn lol.

    Haha, well, its maybe not so much a slap as it is a..err.. well basically you slam your open palms down on the lockbar, so it hits with the lower part of you hand. I dont really see what its good for, and dont do it myself, and I also get slightly annoyed when the certain player does it the whole time but I guess it is just to create some vibration for when the ball is close to the slings or something, without making the tilt bob move too much.

    #13 4 years ago
    Quoted from Edenecho:

    Haha, well, its maybe not so much a slap as it is a..err.. well basically you slam your open palms down on the lockbar, so it hits with the lower part of you hand. I dont really see what its good for, and dont do it myself, and I also get slightly annoyed when the certain player does it the whole time but I guess it is just to create some vibration for when the ball is close to the slings or something, without making the tilt bob move too much.

    Oh I know what you're talking about. When performing a dead bounce, you want to do this when the ball is not moving that fast. It gives a little extra bounce if you do it right as it hits the flipper so that it transfers safely to the opposite flipper. Very effective and yes doesn't move the tilt bob hardly at all.

    #14 4 years ago

    Also, quick jabs like that when the ball is at the top of the sling or near the outlanes helps rattle the ball out of the outlane. Also very effective.

    #15 4 years ago
    Quoted from Edenecho:

    I dont really see what its good for

    keep playing and you will start to see how subtle influence on the ball 3, 4, 5, trajectories before a drain is a big part of how higher skilled players operate. I have been trying to learn the technique for over a year and occasionally will get in the zone and be able to predict and impart influence on the ball 3 bounces in front of a drain.

    #16 4 years ago

    I find it amusing that your (edenecho) picture is of the word tilt. But you don't like to move the machine, causing it to tilt.

    Tilt is the game telling you to calm down. It you can shake the cabinet and have it not tilt; then you've done it properly.

    I think the best advice I've heard is that you can't affect the ball. The ball will roll where the physics will take it. When you nudge the machine you're trying to move the Playfield under the ball. The game will tell you if you've gone to far.

    #17 4 years ago
    Quoted from Luckydogg420:

    I think the best advice I've heard is that you can't affect the ball. The ball will roll where the physics will take it. When you nudge the machine you're trying to move the Playfield under the ball.

    ^^ Nice, upvoted!

    #18 4 years ago

    I have my tilt bobs set low , so I can give my machines the bitch slapping they deserve. Ya gotta keep them in line , or they will drain all over you. These machines can take some jostling around. I am usually more careful and respectfull with older machines, or machines with cabinet issues. ( loose leg bolts , cabinet separation...etc )

    #19 4 years ago

    I'm always "yelling" at my friends to not baby my machines and just go full out in nudging/sliding/shaking.

    Then they always say "I don't want to break it."

    Then I respond with a "That's why it has a tilt."

    Full disclosure, my machines are on a hard wood floor, but they sit on the felt sliders that pinball decals sells.

    #20 4 years ago

    Basically, when I turn off the machine, I move the game about 6" back to the wall and make sure the topper is still secure.

    #21 4 years ago
    Quoted from Luckydogg420:

    I find it amusing that your (edenecho) picture is of the word tilt. But you don't like to move the machine, causing it to tilt.
    Tilt is the game telling you to calm down. It you can shake the cabinet and have it not tilt; then you've done it properly.
    I think the best advice I've heard is that you can't affect the ball. The ball will roll where the physics will take it. When you nudge the machine you're trying to move the Playfield under the ball. The game will tell you if you've gone to far.

    hahaha got me there. No but I tilt frequently and have become much better in at least doing all I can to save the ball with max 2 warnings. Cause in a way, the worst thing is doing nothing when you suspect the ball will go outlane /sdtm.
    And also, if a game is designed in a way that a saucer or something often spits the ball sdtm, then you have to either mover it or do something, when the game is ...cheating...kremt...

    #22 4 years ago
    Quoted from JosephT:

    c) Collectors that have 20 machines but couldn't tell you the rules on any of them.

    Hey that's me! I play with only my index finger touching the game sitting on a bar stool. LOL.
    I use skill, ball control and hone in on my shoots. But like you said. My games are average at the best. Just getting back into nudging and my games are improving.

    Funny because when I was in my teens I would beat the crap out of games and could beat the crap out of anyone I played against.
    Back then, 14-15 years old (I'm 47 now) we played for quarters and dollars at the arcades. With a $5. a week allowance my winnings were big money. Heck do you know how many candy bars you could get with a couple bucks back then!!

    Anyway. Even collectors like myself will tell you JUST DO IT!!! nudge, slap, slide, slam. If you don't tilt the game every once on a while your not playing pinball. Just not my LOTR no slapping. Stern really didn't make the side art to last.

    #23 4 years ago

    Pinball wouldn't be that fun to me if you couldn't nudge, bump, or slide the machine. Some may think that is cheating but that's what makes it fun. Getting dangers and riding that edge puts the thrill into the game. Plus it's so cool to be able to save the ball when it should of drained. If I am playing someone else's personal machine, I try to treat them better than I treat my machines out of respect.

    #24 4 years ago
    Quoted from jawjaw:

    If I am playing someone else's personal machine, I try to treat them better than I treat my machines out of respect.

    This is the number one rule. But if the owner is cool; then shake away

    #25 4 years ago

    Hanging next to my game-room:

    417582.jpg

    #26 4 years ago
    Quoted from jawjaw:

    Getting dangers and riding that edge puts the thrill into the game.

    This and the feeling of complete and utter defeat when you're in the zone and don't notice you have warnings and end up tiling in the middle of a huge multiball. Whaaaa Waaaaaaaa....

    #27 4 years ago

    At my house, you are encouraged to get physical with the machine, so nudge, bump and shake to your heart's content. It's a part of the game. As long as you don't slide that puppy into the game next to it, I'm cool with it. They all have fairly adjusted tilts. If you are too rough with the game, you will lose your ball.

    #28 4 years ago
    Quoted from jawjaw:

    If I am playing someone else's personal machine, I try to treat them better than I treat my machines out of respect.

    This is the most important thing to keep in mind. You should always respect whatever the owner of the game is comfortable with. If they don't like their games being nudged, then don't do it.

    #29 4 years ago

    Slapping downward on the lockdown bar slightly reduces ball's counteractions when you're trying to get it settled on the flippers. Or when the ball grazes the sling or other continuous surface, and you would like the sling to not trigger. And one assumes this adds less energy to the bob's swing than an opposing side-to-side or to-and-fro movement.

    Of top-ranked players, I notice Zach Sharpe do this the most. With pinball and all other things, monkey see, monkey do.

    #30 4 years ago

    I was one that babied my machines (and other collector's) until this past year and my skills and high scores have gone up tremendously.

    Not only that, but effective slap saving and nudging add another dimension to playing pinball. Once you get good at nudging to save, there is a feeling of complete control that you cannot feel if you don't move the machine, regardless of how accurate of a shooter you are.

    Anyone needing good games to learn slapping and nudging on, IM pretty much forces you to otherwise the game is over in a minute and is really no fun.

    #31 4 years ago

    You gotta nudge that's all i can say, its part of the game.

    if you want to baby games then put that tilt tight

    #32 4 years ago

    Here's the president of the IFPA's position on slide saves, in case OP is interested.

    jsss.gif

    #33 4 years ago

    It's simple and it's about intent.

    If you are manipulating the game while playing it to keep the ball in play, you are playing the game. If you are unloading on the game because you are an emotional retard... get a grip and/ or help.

    It got so bad for myself that I didn't get invited to local pin-parties for a few years because I was so emotionally out of control that I just couldn't handle losing, well, at all. I still don't like losing, but pinball has helped me to grow out of such an emotionally explosive state doing something that I "SHOULD" be enjoying. I will also note that generally, I play games in personal collections more gently at private collections than I do on location. I like to be nice to the people who are nice to me.

    Downslapping a table is a valid technique to disperse/diffuse the power of contact of a ball with a rubber sling or surface of the sort. IF the technique works, use it. If you don't like it, don't do it. I will be happy to knock you out of a tournament

    There were 3 things that made the difference for me.
    1) Good friends telling me to cool the f&%k out. Holding up the mirror and not liking what I saw, man... the truth.
    2) Setting up my games differently. Some are super tight on tilts and some are all the way open. Depends on the game. New DMD's, most are PAPA A bank whisper-tilt sensitive. My older EM's and certain early SS (Flash Gordon in particular) designs require table manipulation to keep the ball in play.
    3) There are two groups of people who comment on my nudgeful play.
    A) The "how did you do that" crew. I tell and show them all I can, then we play some pinball.
    B) The "that's not how you play pinball" or "you're cheating" or "don't abuse the games" crew. Unless they realize that moving the box is part of playing the game, these people are to be smiled and waved at, and never spoken to again.

    Finally if I absolutely have to vent during tournament play, I take a page from Master Hegge's book of pinball play and frustro-shake the next game in play (that isn't being played) next to me and stomp my self-righteous self off into the distance. Rawr!

    #34 4 years ago
    Quoted from Gryszzz:

    ....my sweetest friend....
    everyone I know,
    goes away...in the end....

    And you could have it all
    My empire of dirt
    I will let you down
    I will make you hurt

    #35 4 years ago

    I don't want people sliding machines in my place. The floor is very rough and not slide friendly, and the machines are close together. So I tell people that and they respect it.

    Beyond that I don't care what you do. They are pinball machines and built for it and I don't believe suffer any ill effects.

    I do try to keep medium tilts on all my games, and the more expensive the game (Afm) the tighter the tilt is gonna be.

    At someone's place, I won't try to slide collection games as that's obnoxious.

    On location, I'll admit I do whatever I can get away with. It's the operators responsibility to set his tilts right, and if he's gonna let me get away with death saves I'll do them. And I good at death saves.

    #36 4 years ago
    Quoted from DefaultGen:

    Here's the president of the IFPA's position on slide saves, in case OP is interested.

    jsss.gif

    That's just too much!

    3.gif

    #38 4 years ago

    I am always astounded at how many people have a problem with "abusing" machines, but will react by threatening or even assaulting a human being.

    Do you really care more about your possessions than how you treat your fellow pin-heads?

    #39 4 years ago
    Quoted from Caucasian2Step:

    I am always astounded at how many people have a problem with "abusing" machines, but will react by threatening or even assaulting a human being.
    Do you really care more about your possessions than how you treat your fellow pin-heads?

    1.gif

    Did I answer your question?

    #40 4 years ago

    A better pinball player than you or me. Maximum respect to the champ.

    #41 4 years ago

    Beautiful! I'd love to try that (but not on mine)!

    #42 4 years ago
    Quoted from Caucasian2Step:

    A better pinball player than you or me. Maximum respect to the champ.
    » YouTube video

    Pulled off my first successful wicked shimmy on a TWD pro the other day.

    #43 4 years ago
    Quoted from AlexSMendes:

    Beautiful! I'd love to try that (but not on mine)!

    So it's clear you feel these moves are abuse and you don't want them done on your games, yet you'd gladly try them on other people's games? Classy.

    #44 4 years ago
    Quoted from chuckwurt:

    So it's clear you feel these moves are abuse and you don't want them done on your games, yet you'd gladly try them on other people's games? Classy.

    If you do allow....

    #45 4 years ago

    Last one:

    2.gif

    #46 4 years ago
    Quoted from AlexSMendes:

    If you do allow....

    Nope sorry. That's abuse. Haha. You have to be delicate with my games while I destroy you game after game on them.

    #47 4 years ago
    Quoted from DefaultGen:

    Here's the president of the IFPA's position on slide saves, in case OP is interested.

    jsss.gif

    Slide saves have to be quick and big to really work. You only have that debounce time of the plumb bob to settle things back down by the time it gets through the 2nd warning.

    For anyone that doesn't like slide saves, set your games to NO TILT WARNINGS (so the first warning is simply an instant tilt). This makes slide saves impossible as you need the debounce logic of the tilt warnings to pull it off.

    Without that slide save I don't win that tournament

    #48 4 years ago

    I won't do anything to another person's machine other than a very gentle nudge, and I do mean gentle.

    As for mine, I'm getting pretty decent a the Death Save with my Metallica.

    #49 4 years ago

    My collection has a wide array of tilt settings as noted above. I always find it interesting to see the reactions of people to the different settings of the game. Sometimes they like it, sometimes we talk about it and other times, they just walk away and find another game to play.

    #50 4 years ago

    The "Wicked Shimmy" has been dubbed the "Fraxquake" locally. The difference is that the "Fraxquake" usually lasts at least three full seconds, the ball has to actually be fully in the outlane side and walk back up it, and is particularly effective on EM outlanes.

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