(Topic ID: 59251)

What has caused the resurgence of pinball?


By rustybomber79

6 years ago



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    There are 210 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 5.
    #101 6 years ago
    Quoted from Noahs_Arcade:

    Don't be so sure...

    you can't have "nostalgia" for something you never were aware of...

    #102 6 years ago

    A house with an average size man cave

    The options

    1) One pool table or
    2) Pinball machines with a mame unit

    No brainer number 2

    #103 6 years ago

    I don't think there is a public resurgence but there is growth in the hobby. The internet started it with access to information about pins, where they are for sale, and tech help. That made buying and fixing games easier for more people. That caused others to start small businesses catering to the needs of hobbyists. That led to more people being able to fix games reasonably easily and so on...

    ...as the hobby grew, new people brought in more money and demand rose for older games which caused more people to buy new games as the prices between used and new got closer...

    #104 6 years ago
    Quoted from NJGecko:

    As much as I hate to say it, yea...Pinball Arcade has done a ton. I had some contractors doing work on my HVAC last year. One of them was in my gameroom, saw my CV and commented how he loves to play it on his iPad...where else can you take a game that sells for $7k (don't quote me!) and play it any time you want for $5?
    I wouldn't necessarily call it a resurgence though. A shift in price, or a lack of further decline maybe.

    And Visual pinball / Pinmame per dates Pinball Arcade by years

    #105 6 years ago
    Quoted from ccotenj:

    you can't have "nostalgia" for something you never were aware of...

    I don't disagree with that, but I know that nostalgia isn't the only reason people play/buy.

    For example, I am 25. When I grew up, pinball was around, but I never played (nor did anyone I knew). I did have a small desktop Air Pinball by Radio Shack, and like most others my age, played Space Cadet on Windows relentlessly. It wasn't until last October that I started playing real pinball. I'd go to the bar, and the choices were shitty bar darts, shitty bar pool, or shitty TSPP. I loved the Simpsons growing up, so I gave it a go.

    Why I got into pinball? A love of history, electronics, and baseball. TSPP was just a push in the right direction.

    #106 6 years ago
    Quoted from pinnyheadhead:

    You are right in that you don't even have to own a pin to play pinball. $20 for 3 hours of entertainment is awsome. Finding a good pin to play on location is like finding a diamond in the rough. I recently was on vacation in Maine and found alot of diamonds in one place- AFM, MB, Sstiff, Batman, spiderman, Family Guy, Dr. Who, Black Rose, FREDDY, and Ripley's. Thanks Coast City Comics!
    My wife gave me the OK to get one then two. Mabey look for a game she might like also. Not FREDDY Kruger.
    So what games are you looking at? Good luck!

    I see your in GA, You probably have a lot less options for pins in the wild. The south seems pretty thin on pinballs. I am currently living near Boston (and have been to Coast City) but hoping to be moving back to Memphis, TN soon and from what I can tell Pinball is non existant down there, I only know of ONE on location machine. Which is a factor in my wifes approval. (Get one now where they are availible and not stuipidly over priced and take it with us)

    My wife is a big Wizard of Oz fan, but her love is not $7000 big. My budget is basically enough for one older B+/A- title or maybe 2 B's if I play my cards right.

    There a many games I would consider, it just depends on what comes up availible when I am ready to buy. I feel like there are plenty of affordable titles that are just as good as higher priceds ones. I'd like to get a Space Shuttle, which would leave some room for another game. Just to give you an idea I like Stargate, Austin Powers, Pin Bot, R911, GNR, Firepower, Star Trek (DE). Although he is brand new, I have to keep the theme PG for my son, don't what him having nightmares that Gorgar is coming to get him when he gets older.

    #107 6 years ago
    Quoted from Noahs_Arcade:

    Don't be so sure...

    That today's kids will shell out $5-$100k to put pinball machines their homes someday? I'm not SURE of much, but I'd say this is a safe bet.

    Entertainment today is getting SMALLER and CHEAPER, not bigger and pricier. Witness video games sales, they have been in serious decline:

    Kids are paying .99 for a "game" on their phone rather than $50 for a console game...

    The most popular "camera" used today for photography? Not even a camera- a phone!

    It's a nice dream, but I'm afraid that's ALL it is - to imagine this generation of youth investing heavily in pinball.... They are oddities to them, not integral parts of their life that will become nostalgic.

    I think if ANYTHING takes off for them, it will be virtual pinball.... Costing a few dollars and Played on a handheld device- not a several hundred pound cabinet though.

    #108 6 years ago

    ^^^

    yup...

    and 99% of them can't even put gas in a car, let alone attempt to fix a pinball machine...

    re: "cheaper"... true dat... read the comments on games for handheld devices... you'd think that spending 99 cents for a game is a life changing decision from reading them...

    it's a HUGE step from pinball on a handheld device to a "real" pinball machine... have some made it? sure... but i'm willing to wager it is a VERY VERY small percentage...

    #109 6 years ago
    Quoted from ccotenj:

    you can't have "nostalgia" for something you never were aware of...

    I agree you can see something and it may reminds you of the past even if you did not play them. I am 42 and love the artwork of EM's and enjoy seeing newer artwork with that retro look and feel, even if I grew up in the Pac Man generation. I remember watching people play the EM's when I little and went to Old Orchard Beach, Maine. I can smell the vinegar on the pier fries whenever I see an EM. Ahh.
    I was mentioning earlier that unike most other collectables pinballs usually do not get more valuable with age. Look at cars, comic books, sportscards, toys, etc. and you will see that older rarer pieces sell for more. In pinball LE's get the top dollars compared to older, rare EM's. Why - technology and advanced game play.
    EM's can be great looking works of art and fun to play. Did not intend to diss them. Not at all.

    #110 6 years ago

    When the economy tanked a few years ago and the price dropped on pinball machines they got affordable. That is when I bought my first one. As the price steadily rises, I am trying to buy everything I can get my hands on before they get out of sight again. That is my reasoning.

    #111 6 years ago
    Quoted from ccotenj:

    ^^^
    yup...
    and 99% of them can't even put gas in a car, let alone attempt to fix a pinball machine...
    re: "cheaper"... true dat... read the comments on games for handheld devices... you'd think that spending 99 cents for a game is a life changing decision from reading them...
    it's a HUGE step from pinball on a handheld device to a "real" pinball machine... have some made it? sure... but i'm willing to wager it is a VERY VERY small percentage...

    Yes...

    I do think we will see "video pinball" flourish. It's pretty entertaining right now, but Technology improvements will only make it better. I run visual pinball on my full-sized virtual cabinet now and its amazing how much development is occurring in the virtual space!

    If a few publishers decide to port their stuff to the cabinet world- it will expand even faster!

    #112 6 years ago

    @pinny...

    i was one of those you watched playing em's at old orchard beach maine... you might have even watched me in person, as i'm about 8 years older than you...

    now i want pier fries...

    big leap of logic there on pricing...

    #113 6 years ago
    Quoted from lowepg:

    Entertainment today is getting SMALLER and CHEAPER

    People pump so much money into those shitty plastic bar darts games, it's unreal. And for a game that used to be free...

    I think it's more due to fewer games on location, fueled by a cost/benefit analysis on the operators' part.

    #114 6 years ago

    Lots of great replies! I think a big part of it is the economy and wide appeal
    of pins. People are staying closer to home now. TV has become a wasteland
    (crappy commercials interrupted occasionally by programming), so hobbies
    are filling the void. Why pinball and not classic video arcade games? Some
    would say home gaming consoles but I don't buy that. A big part of the fun
    in any hobby is the retro aspect. I'm shifting back into classic vids again
    because of the crazy cost of pins.
    Steve

    #115 6 years ago
    Quoted from lowepg:

    Yes...
    I do think we will see "video pinball" flourish. It's pretty entertaining right now, but Technology improvements will only make it better. I run visual pinball on my full-sized virtual cabinet now and its amazing how much development is occurring in the virtual space!
    If a few publishers decide to port their stuff to the cabinet world- it will expand even faster!

    that's entirely possible... 1 cabinet, 1000's of games... nothing to "fix"... plug and play... no hunting around barns for machines... no dealing with people who haven't taken a shower in a month... no ridiculous pricing, basically retail for the cabinet and software, and no "rarity"...

    i can even see me (crusty old em fart that i am ) with a virtual cabinet someday...

    #116 6 years ago
    Quoted from zarco:

    Lots of great replies! I think a big part of it is the economy and wide appeal
    of pins. People are staying closer to home now. TV has become a wasteland
    (crappy commercials interrupted occasionally by programming), so hobbies
    are filling the void. Why pinball and not classic video arcade games? Some
    would say home gaming consoles but I don't buy that. A big part of the fun
    in any hobby is the retro aspect. I'm shifting back into classic vids again
    because of the crazy cost of pins.
    Steve

    re: tv a wasteland... while true, that doesn't imply "nothing to watch"... if anything, in today's world, there is a HUGE library/catalog of programming that exists with the push of a button... and it's even legal... we have more "home entertainment" options today than we ever had before...

    re: classic vids... dying for a "defender" machine here... but can't lay my hands on one...

    #117 6 years ago

    For me it was buying a used copy of Williams Pinball Hall Of Fame for the Wii about 6 months ago. My girlfriend and I have been playing (and getting into heated competition to decide who does the dishes, etc.) Space Shuttle in that game's library just about every night since. Fast forward to now, and I just bought the real deal from a guy in Denver, and it's sitting in her guest bedroom. Good times.....Hooked for life.

    #118 6 years ago
    Quoted from punchmaster72:

    For me it was buying a used copy of Williams Pinball Hall Of Fame for the Wii

    This is why the electronic versions are so great. You play a ton, learn the rules, learn some skills, enjoy the game, all at a reasonable price.

    Then you realize it's just not the same...

    #119 6 years ago
    Quoted from jackd104:

    People longing for analog experiences in a digital age.

    Interesting observation, It seems many people are crediting digital pinball as their gateway to the to the real thing.

    I wonder how often the digital experience leads people to the real thing? Is there some Bowling forum out there where they are discussing how Wii bowling helped renew interest in real bowling? How many kids started skateboearding because of Tony Hawks Pro Skater? How many people picked up a real guitar after the populatity of the Guitar Hero games? Although I am guessing not many people who tried the last 2 in real life stuck with it. Which makes another point for Pinball, anyone can do it!

    #120 6 years ago

    I think it was a number of things that happened in a pretty small window of time:

    Virtual pinball - The success of games like Pinball Arcade. I think that this being released on phones is particularly important.

    Generational - Those that grew up in arcades are now in their peak earning years. Disposable income + nostalgia. These people are seeking things to fill their homes.

    Documentaries - Tilt, and Special When Lit are both fairly popular, even outside of the community (they are or were readily available on netflix).

    New Manufacturers - JJP entering the arena has created quite a lot of buzz. Other boutique manufacturers have also popped up.

    Better games - I'm not necessarily saying better than the 90's, but Stern has responded to the above by releasing some of the best games in years.

    #121 6 years ago

    Another small point about the awareness of pins and vids: Starting to see more of this older stuff showing up on the so-called "reality" tv...the pawn shows, the storage shed shows, the picker shows. Lots of visibility of arcade stuff. A drawback to this is everybody thinks all their junk is collectable.

    #122 6 years ago

    I personally got into pinball because I love LOTR. Being 23 I didn't grow up with, or knew anyone that had a pinball machine. Managed to find a NIB LOTR LE in my city last Sep/Nov. Every one I know is like " Really man, pinball?" And I'm like "Hell yes, pinball." Can't speak for anyone else though haha.

    #123 6 years ago
    Quoted from retired_user_101:

    instead of previous generations who bought motorcycles & hookers to get through their mid-life crisis

    Hey! Some of us do both.

    #124 6 years ago
    Quoted from ccotenj:

    re: tv a wasteland... while true, that doesn't imply "nothing to watch"... if anything, in today's world, there is a HUGE library/catalog of programming that exists with the push of a button... and it's even legal... we have more "home entertainment" options today than we ever had before...
    re: classic vids... dying for a "defender" machine here... but can't lay my hands on one...

    check the New York New Jersey Craigslist. I could swear I just saw a Defender there recently..

    #125 6 years ago
    Quoted from Butch2099:

    check the New York New Jersey Craigslist. I could swear I just saw a Defender there recently..

    thanks for the heads up, i just emailed about it...

    #126 6 years ago

    re: "special when lit" increasing new pinball players.... welllllllll.... are people SURE about that? sure, for pinheads, we know that not everyone in the hobby is ummm, "different"... but when watching that documentary, it wouldn't exactly be a group of people i'd be clamoring to join... it's more likely that people would run the other way, and FAST...

    #127 6 years ago
    Quoted from Monkey:

    "Really man, pinball?" And I'm like "Hell yes, pinball."

    I've had this conversation verbatim.

    #128 6 years ago
    Quoted from Deaconblooze:

    I think it was a number of things that happened in a pretty small window of time:
    Virtual pinball - The success of games like Pinball Arcade. I think that this being released on phones is particularly important.
    Generational - Those that grew up in arcades are now in their peak earning years. Disposable income + nostalgia. These people are seeking things to fill their homes.
    Documentaries - Tilt, and Special When Lit are both fairly popular, even outside of the community (they are or were readily available on netflix).
    New Manufacturers - JJP entering the arena has created quite a lot of buzz. Other boutique manufacturers have also popped up.
    Better games - I'm not necessarily saying better than the 90's, but Stern has responded to the above by releasing some of the best games in years.

    This sums it up.....I'd put better games from Stern and the start of JJP at the top in order of importance....

    Not sure how long it can be sustained though, 2 more years, 5, 20?

    There is only so much $$$ to soak up the newer higher priced inventory hitting the market and its the private homeowner that's driving the market now......

    Just take a peak at all the For Sale threads over the last few months and people having to severely lower the prices or not even be able to make a sale.....some people think its just the "summer dive"...I think that's wishful thinking, older pins will suffer and revert back to the mean as guys try to raise disposable cash to buy the next new "must have"......

    As for the future generation of kids, pinball will never amount to anything unless its on a video screen....that, I"m sure of!

    #129 6 years ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    There is only so much $$$ to soak up the newer higher priced inventory hitting the market and its the private homeowner that's driving the market now......

    Just take a peak at all the For Sale threads over the last few months and people having to severely lower the prices or not even be able to make a sale.....some people think its just the "summer dive"...I think that's wishful thinking, older pins will suffer and revert back to the mean as guys try to raise disposable cash to buy the next new "must have"......

    Cash or space. In the end I have decided that only so many fit and that works with my availability to maintain the upkeep on them as well. I am sure I am not the only newer buyer in the last two years who is about at the limit of what works.
    At this point I am canning Predator & ST to wait and see if a theme that really grabs me comes out later. If not my line up is now exactly what I want. But I am a great example of a busy buyer with the brakes on.

    #130 6 years ago
    Quoted from rustybomber79:

    I see your in GA, You probably have a lot less options for pins in the wild. The south seems pretty thin on pinballs. I am currently living near Boston (and have been to Coast City) but hoping to be moving back to Memphis, TN soon and from what I can tell Pinball is non existant down there, I only know of ONE on location machine. Which is a factor in my wifes approval. (Get one now where they are availible and not stuipidly over priced and take it with us)

    This is not an argument, but you couldn't be more wrong about GA. I moved here 10 years ago and there were a LOT more Pinheads here than NJ. Pinball Inc. the world's largest manufacturer of replacement pinball ramps is here. I run a mailing list that has been in existence for 12 years now called GAPAS (GAPAS.NET). We have 2 Pinball leagues and there is a major convention in the works for next year. Keep coming south and you'll be among friends.

    #131 6 years ago

    treading gently...

    while jjp has caused a great amount of excitement in a small community, i'm struggling to see them making an impact on the non-pinball community... a few thousand machines, most of them seemingly sold to those who already have collections, does not make "growth"...

    same deal for stern's new games...

    #132 6 years ago
    Quoted from ccotenj:

    same deal for stern's new games...

    ACDC lured me in to buying new Pinballs so I have to disagree.
    These new themes are being put out there at Comicon and lollapalooza and being covered by media. That's getting buyers in the game.

    #133 6 years ago

    ^^^

    buying "new" machines, but you were already in the game, right?

    "individual examples" of "new entrants" can be found, sure... no denying that... a few hundred new entrants isn't a resurgence though...

    and that is ignoring the other side of the equation, which is the people who are either leaving the hobby or dying off...

    edit: i hate sounding like a debbie downer... but i'm just not seeing any great resurgence... i wish i were...

    #134 6 years ago
    Quoted from ccotenj:

    thanks for the heads up, i just emailed about it...</blockquI could help

    thanks for the heads up, i just emailed about it...

    Cool! Glad I could help...

    #135 6 years ago
    Quoted from ccotenj:

    treading gently...
    while jjp has caused a great amount of excitement in a small community, i'm struggling to see them making an impact on the non-pinball community... a few thousand machines, most of them seemingly sold to those who already have collections, does not make "growth"...
    same deal for stern's new games...

    Yeah that's an interesting point. I go to Free Gold Watch (FGW) here in San Francisco. Apparently it's the only location WOZ in all of California. Like you said, most people who bought are putting them in their private collections instead of on-location. However, it's been getting a lot of play at FGW, but that's probably b/c it's more a pinball nerd joint. I did talk to this guy with his little girls last night while I was playing WOZ and they all thought it looked really fun. The $1 play kinda scared them off at first, but I later saw them playing like eight games of it so who knows. Most people I think still think $1 or even $0.75 is a lot for a game

    #136 6 years ago

    Jersey Jack himself might have also had a big deal to do with it as well. Gary Stern has always been a "Build for the Operator Guy". Jack had him make special editions of Austin Powers and Monopoly for the home market. Jack was his primary reseller for home sales. As operator sales decreased, home sales increased. Despite the fact that they separated, it's my opinion that Jack had a LOT to do with it.

    #137 6 years ago
    Quoted from awarner:

    This is not an argument, but you couldn't be more wrong about GA. I moved here 10 years ago and there were a LOT more Pinheads here than NJ. Pinball Inc. the world's largest manufacturer of replacement pinball ramps is here. I run a mailing list that has been in existence for 12 years now called GAPAS (GAPAS.NET). We have 2 Pinball leagues and there is a major convention in the works for next year. Keep coming south and you'll be among friends.

    +1

    #138 6 years ago

    Resurgence for whom?

    #139 6 years ago
    Quoted from BadBrad97:

    When the economy tanked a few years ago and the price dropped on pinball machines they got affordable.

    When pinball started to fade away (late 1990's) you had many operators getting out of the business and selling their routed pins. So now you have a great situation for owning your own pinball machine: lots of pins available to buy at a decent price, and the lack of pins to play in the wild.

    As more and more people have started getting into the hobby, those supplies aren't being replenished by older routed machines in the same numbers. Supply has gone down, so the prices have gone up. Stern, JJP, and others know this so have raised their prices accordingly. This has made it even tougher for someone to make money on routing pinball machines, and the home collector market has gotten more expensive. Less routed machines to buy and higher priced NIB games.

    I think that pinball collecting is probably at it's peak or right around it. It seems like weekly, someone is posting about getting out of the hobby.

    I don't see a resurgence in pinball in the wild. It's just not profitable enough to make it worth someone's time.

    #140 6 years ago
    Quoted from rustybomber79:

    What I am wondering what has caused the bubble of interest in the hobby?

    People have a lot of disposable income.

    Robert

    #141 6 years ago
    Quoted from Hwawonyu:

    Cash or space. In the end I have decided that only so many fit and that works with my availability to maintain the upkeep on them as well. I am sure I am not the only newer buyer in the last two years who is about at the limit of what works.
    At this point I am canning Predator & ST to wait and see if a theme that really grabs me comes out later. If not my line up is now exactly what I want. But I am a great example of a busy buyer with the brakes on.

    Exactly, I'm probably out on Predator because I'm in for Woz, Raza, ST and Hobbit and will pick up an AC/DC premium, that gives me 9 and no matter what I'm going up to a max of 12, like to keep it at 10 and then when 1 enters, 1 leaves....

    The only pin I can see myself ever getting rid of right now is SM.....

    #142 6 years ago
    Quoted from awarner:

    This is not an argument, but you couldn't be more wrong about GA. I moved here 10 years ago and there were a LOT more Pinheads here than NJ. Pinball Inc. the world's largest manufacturer of replacement pinball ramps is here. I run a mailing list that has been in existence for 12 years now called GAPAS (GAPAS.NET). We have 2 Pinball leagues and there is a major convention in the works for next year. Keep coming south and you'll be among friends.

    Thats good to hear, I was just ASSuming that the south as a whole was bad like Memphis. Maybe I will be back south intime for the convention!! GA isn't too far.

    #143 6 years ago
    Quoted from genex:

    Yeah that's an interesting point. I go to Free Gold Watch (FGW) here in San Francisco. Apparently it's the only location WOZ in all of California.
    . . . Most people I think still think $1 or even $0.75 is a lot for a game

    No, there has been a WOZ for quite a few months at Nickel City, in the Rancho Bernardo / Poway area of San Diego County. It is one of the early prototypes of this table. (Nickel City itself is due to be moving to a new location in that general area, perhaps as soon as this Fall.) Despite the name, theme, and widespread use of nickels at NC, I believe this one had been set for $0.50 per game, but I'd need to confirm that. $0.75 was the prevailing price around L.A., the last time I checked, and there are some games at that price in the S.D. area, but most often they are $0.50 or less. I think higher than that is really pushing it, even for tables kept in good working order (never that easy to find), regardless of what market you're in.

    #144 6 years ago

    Machines in the wild (when you can find them) have to be set up correctly which is quite a challenge and responsibility for the operators to get the balance right, in some regard the future of pinball is in there hands as well:

    They have to be priced and set up so that kids/casual players with say 5 bucks don't have a series of 30 second drain experiences and move over to the video machines and never look back. They also need to be well cared for so that the lasting impression is also a good one, what is worse than having a dirty, faulty 30 second drain-a-thon. If it is a well maintained, clean experience then even if the first few games are short it becomes a challenge rather than a chore.

    Of course sadly the ops have to make a living as well.

    Disposable income and cost of sale are the more of an issue to sustainability of the business, while right now prices are increasing most businesses tend to fold rather than adapt and flex when things start to decline. I hope that stern and JJP have a model already in place to be able to cope with the peaks and troughs to come.

    #145 6 years ago

    Great responses! It is true that things may not be "really" growing if a small amount of individuals buy 5 pins quickly and or people just added more pins in their basement and now are out of room.

    Also, what would happen if Stern does a few stinkers and people have 3 newer pins that are each worth thousands less then the paid in the past year or so?

    Looking around we may see a correction in the DMD's and Sterns coming up soon. Here is how I will tell. There is a flipper (whom I have no problem with) around my neck of the woods who usually has about 10 pins for sale at a time. I just looked and now he 25+ this Summer. He is probably thinking that they will all be gone and more by Christmas and have his best year ever! If he turns them over then no correction, but if he still has a lot left then correction time.

    Now if there is a correction people with a lot of pins and flippers will go through denial for a while when they go to sell them at higher prices than they paid. They will just hang on to it for a while and make excuses. Then they start to move what they can. "I hate to see it go", they will say, but "I am glad I dumped it!", they will think. No one wants to get stuck with a pin.

    I was about to buy 2 more pins, but after looking around and talking to people maybe there is a correction coming and I don't know how to factor that in because I just enjoy playing, but I don't want to take it in the chin in not being able to sell them if I have too someday.

    We will see.

    #146 6 years ago
    Quoted from pinnyheadhead:

    Now if there is a correction people with a lot of pins and flippers will go through denial for a while when they go to sell them at higher prices than they paid. They will just hang on to it for a while and make excuses. Then they start to move what they can. "I hate to see it go", they will say, but "I am glad I dumped it!", they will think. No one wants to get stuck with a pin.

    The "correction" or adjustment is in progress, on a slow roll down but not for the newer pins with the newer technology like Stern and JJP are pumping out right now....that will eventually come....

    The whole "LE" thing will tank in my opinion as time goes by because the more LE versions you have of any pin maker the novelty of it wears off and the reality sets in.....people can be just as happy with a premium that plays the exact same way the "LE" at 400 or 500 really isn't LE anyhow.....

    The Hobbit is going to be an SE, or special edition at 1500......

    I also collect vintage basketball cards and when card companies made a resurgence it was all about the LE, SE, 1 of 25, exquisite, pinnacle version, etc.....at first, the Michael Jordan LE autos went for a fortune as the "chase" was on, and then Lebron, etc......now, after so many years, there are so many "limited" version autos of this that and the other that its been played out and the reality has set in for those "chasers"....after all, if you buy and LE of anything, you have at least somewhat of a "collector" motive......

    We are already at the "super LE" level with boutique guys like Jpop and SkitB, I think that model has a better chance of long term survival for the "collector", especially Jpop, than the current Stern, JJP approach...but its working now......

    The people that are sitting on a Lotr le, Tron le, Sm black, Ac/dc le etc.....and thinking the price will go up and up aren't thinking about the next new "greatest pins ever" about to be produced by all these companies.....the bloom will slowly fade off the rose over time and so will the value, for the collector part.....Ac/dc and music pins have a better chance to maintain value over the long run....

    Anyhow, its a fun time to have pinball as a hobby! I just try and enjoy playing my pins and conversing with you guys! Value doesn't mean much to me except when I'm buying

    #147 6 years ago

    Are we at the 86-87 through 89-90 Fleer stage of basketball cards compared to pins today? 86-87 all the rookies came out when there was a gap in the card market from 80-81 topps till then. At first no one cared then people went crazy and so did basketball cards. Hoops came out, Skybox then things became about the limited stuff rather than about collecting.

    Iceman 44 said-
    I also collect vintage basketball cards and when card companies made a resurgence it was all about the LE, SE, 1 of 25, exquisite, pinnacle version, etc.....at first, the Michael Jordan LE autos went for a fortune as the "chase" was on, and then Lebron, etc......now, after so many years, there are so many "limited" version autos of this that and the other that its been played out and the reality has set in for those "chasers"....after all, if you buy and LE of anything, you have at least somewhat of a "collector" motive......
    We are already at the "super LE" level with boutique guys like Jpop and SkitB, I think that model has a better chance of long term survival for the "collector", especially Jpop, than the current Stern, JJP approach...but its working now......

    #148 6 years ago

    Funny you mention that Ice as that's exactly me. Lined up for LEs before but going pro when the next table I like comes around like I did with Metallica.

    #149 6 years ago
    Quoted from rustybomber79:

    OK, OK "resurgence" was a bit strong, I should have just said surge or up swing or bump......

    I don't think "resurgence" was too strong at all.
    Recently, I was gifted a pin. After a full (and necessary) restoration, I'm addicted to the repair aspects. The nearly 30-year-old pin needed a great deal of TLC and I'm permanently fascinated. I've been looking around for other machines with which to become familiar. I may have recently offended another member here with a low offer for a very popular pin in the market (sorry boss - no offense).
    Dreaming seriously of my own theme.
    Perhaps there are others?
    Obviously so according to my research.
    In the meantime, I would like some more practice with working on systems other than Bally 1984 era. Computer code is STUPID simple - playfield art is priceless.
    I'm thinking an Alex Grey theme with TOOL as the soundtrack - like that's ever going to happen......

    #150 6 years ago
    Quoted from pinnyheadhead:

    Are we at the 86-87 through 89-90 Fleer stage of basketball cards compared to pins today? 86-87 all the rookies came out when there was a gap in the card market from 80-81 topps till then. At first no one cared then people went crazy and so did basketball cards. Hoops came out, Skybox then things became about the limited stuff rather than about collecting.

    Ahhh yes, remember those days well, what a set that 86 fleer is, and 87 then the volume went with hoops and skybox turned it to crap and along came Upper Deck and it wasn't until the Jordan autos went nuts that the collector chase was on.....

    I have been to several Jordan fantasy camps out in Vegas and even there, the first year or so the cards he signed for the coaches and campers were in huge demand....fast forward several years and now, well, its just another Jordan auto....each coach/player would get 2 autos each, and it was kind of funny watching Calhoun, Coach K, etc...line up to have items signed by MJ....

    I have jersey's, balls, photos, anything you can think of signed by him, now its who cares, the "LE" has worn off, although I do have a killer photo framed of him hitting the jumper against Georgetown to win the championship signed by hm, Coach Smith and Roy Williams.....

    I think it will take a few more years of the "LE" stage to weed out people and get them to say "so what", its not really and LE and I can have a pro or premium and be happy with that....

    Pinball has got to keep making huge advancements with LCD, online play versus others, etc. to bring more kids and folks in......could happen, thanks to JJP, Stern and Jpop....and others....

    btw, I only collect 48 Bowmans, 57 Topps, 61 fleer, 69 tall boys, and 71 aba for vintage, all PSA graded only! In high grade

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