Yes, ok. You can still play outside your home. For as long as it lasts. Hardly a pinball in good condition to find.

Pinball in the arcades, arcades in general are history. Sad, but true.

Edit

I am so regretting i did not re enter pinball 10 years ago.... .

Edit

Haha, i think why did i ever leave the pinball scene? And i remember it. And itnhas somehow a connection with my previous posts.

Pinball was desserting the pubs, and the only place you could play was in an still going strong arcade. But..... This arcade had gambling slots too....... Somehow i ended waisting thousands of euros, dutch guldens at the time, on playing the slots every day.

I had to leave that place for my own good, and thats excactly the time i quit playing pinball.

I think now.... I could have the whole Top 25 pinball machines plus woz, predator and avengers if i saved the money i put in those damned slots, LOL!!!

Thank you for letting me know. I must have missed that announcement.

I'll get right on it.

LTG : )

Jack blew it when he chose WOZ for a theme. The orders for Hobbit will be triple than those for WOZ. I know there are a lot of you that don't mind it, but the facts are many of us do mind it and in business those are lost sales and he lost a LOT of sales choosing such a them. God only knows how many sales he lost from the European market. He should have asked around before he made that choice.

8,000 is a lot of money for a product you know nothing about other than a name and a theme of. If Jersey Jack did not do a good job of posting video of the machine's prototype, showing how it works, what all of the features are, and showing testimonials/honest surveys of people who have played it, I would never invest in him myself. But, apparently a lot of people have.

And its a good thing they have, as once they buy them, JJP will make money and become a more stable business for it. which will open the doors for more machines to be made, and give people who did not pre-order the chance to buy tables that are over-flow.

8k is not an 'insane' price to pay for a brand new pinball machine. It is a risky price to pay for a company's first effort. some people are willing to take that risk, you seem to be more upset that its a limited edition and your not willing to risk it.

Nothing is stopping the distributors from taking deposits sooner.

Distributors could ask for deposits on game #10 if they like.

Nice topic addon.

Jack loves the Wizard of OZ.

It was a personal choice.

I hear you, Lloyd. I spoke to Jack Monday on the phone and he was the same professional he's always been with me. I was impressed he took the time he did to speak with me about things. If I were in his shoes, I'm not sure I would have appeared so cool.

(for the record, I like B/W, Stern, JJP, and even old Gottlieb games)

Again, i am not upset, or mad. And i dont have 8000 euros, not even halve.

I am only worried these hogh prices not only put me out of business, but in a few years, everybody.

I am not a part in what i am trying to say. Its not about me, but about pinball. And that is what my worries are for.

Even if the word got out 6 months ago about the Hobbit (which it was, nobody was surprised were they? ), that does not mean that he has to start taking money yet, with the threat that if you don't hurry up, you won't get a chance at the same serial number.

Distributors could start taking deposits any time they want to.

But Jack could have told his existing WOZ customers that he would wait for their Hobbit deposits until they received their WOZ games and were 100% satisfied. What's the hurry?

Hardly

The hurry is he needs that money NOW, not next summer.

I will wait until they appear on location then play it for a couple bucks.
If I like it I will look for a used one down the road.

I got my FG NIB from Jack because he had one in stock and I wanted the title. I am not a huge fan of ordering or starting to pay for something that is not produced yet.

That must be why the thousand LE's went so fast.

Must have been all those non pinball WOZ fans.

LTG : )

Now, now LTG. Fair to say many sold on the JJP train and hopes of Stern competetion versus love of the WOZ theme.

I'm on the train too, but I didn't do the payment plan.

Also fair to say WOZ is a very recognizable license here in the USA and Europe, well beyond pinball.

Many WOZ games have been sold to non pinball people.

I know I've had them search me out and come into play pinball to find out what they got themselves into.

LTG : )

Living in Utah , this is some funny stuff !

Jim

Lots of people jumped on the JJP train at the time because they were so pissed off at the quality of the Stern's games at the time having taken such a dive (playfield post supports, minimal clearcoat on the playfields, cheap artwork and toys etc) while their prices went up.
There is a history here of why JJP fans flocked to Jack immediately. Stern saw the error of their ways without admitting it, and immediately raised the prices of their games even more when Jack announced his price. They did step up their quality a bit too, but still have not worked up the level of their quality to match the cosmetic quality of WOZ. In terms of game play, longevity etc we will not know how they compare until buyers finally start getting their games. And now JJP has announced that they will only build wide body games in the future.
Maybe Stern's plan is to not throw money into clearcoating the cabinets etc and selling their games at a lower price than JJP and bragging about having "the best pinball game for the buck". Who knows?

Wow, I stand corrected. All of my German and French friends don't seem to know F about WOZ but if thats the feedback so be it. Just from reading it seemed more folks here were supporters of pinball growth and quality competition than the theme itself.
Living in the Urban environment I have many friends of alternative culture that are VERY excited for a WOZ theme : )
Is what it is .

Woz is known in holland. But have to find one single positive post about woz as a theme.

I can find none. They all say its a kids theme. Kids dont buy pinballmachines.....

I do read alot of, what if this had a great theme, remarks. Cause outside the negatives about the theme its almost all positive comments.

Last I checked the pin is sold out.

Source?

Edit

Just what i taught. You just made it up.

http://www.ministryofpinball.nl

Still available, as espected.

I am very excited that it has been officially announced.
I will likely buy this game if it looks even remotely decent.

That said until there is a track record of delivering on promises I will not secure my same number again. It is more than fair to ask for game #1 before starting to pay for game #2. He has had our money for 2 years. I will not give another cent for product #2 without seeing the quality and how much I like and enjoy product #1.

There is no gaurantee if I like WOZ that I will like TH and I could wind up hating WOZ and still love TH.

Why let him hold 8K for a year??? For the 500 in interest money ROFL give me a break.

I agree with the thread originator. There is risk in business or at least there use to be. Corporations have been putting all that risk slowly onto the consumer so they have nothing but reward. The same is true for any job working for someone else. They will use you and once done toss you like a broken screwdriver.

I really like Jack and think he is charismatic. I also like the people he chose for his team and the overall business. I did not even mind paying for a game 2 years in advance. But if I cannot play WOZ before deciding if I want my same number for TH. Then I am out for TH probably even for WOZ and will never buy from him again. If I am allowed to play my 2 year paid for game first then great I will likely preorder a 2nd and 3rd....... Keep this in mind Jack seriously

Best regards

Initially, the only reason I bought the game was because WOZ is my family's favorite movie. I seem to spend an awful lot of money on things my family likes.

Throughout this process I have gotten to know Jack and his staff and I really like them. I am not a big fan of Hobbit, but I am a fan of pinball and what I see as Jack's vision for his company so I will most likely purchase a second LE.

LEs amigo. Regulars are still taking orders and will be a plentiful once and when shipping actually begins.

I hope so mate. And i know online is just a small part, so you never know.

On the other hand..... I can find thousands of positive posts on acdc, so.... We will have to wait and see if woz will be a succes.

I am afraid not, but.......... I think the hobbit will explode in holland. Again, we will see.

In the end it does not mather where they sell to, a sell is a sell. Some themes will do better in europe, some better in usa. But the more they sell, the more chances we see alot more jjp machines in the future.

He would have sold 3000 if he chose a better theme.

Well.....after getting caught up on this interesting thread it appears that based on the comments we have probably hit the ceiling price wise on non boutique pins....7500 plus shipping is a wad of cash...

I can see why some folks are upset about the money for #2 before #1 is delivered....I do think Jack should honor people's place in line without more payments until production starts rolling.....that said, I'm still paying it and I've got another BHZA payment this month....

After this and maybe Star Trek I'm DONE......that would leave me with LOTR LE, SM, WOZ, BHZA, TH and PREDATOR and maybe Star Trek and any pin after that I buy one of those will be leaving!

50k in pinball machines no matter how much money you have seems absurd when you think about it......at least it is in my mind...

Yet I'm extremely excited about all these great pins coming!

To keep things in perspective....let's not forget while trashing Jack that a few years ago pinball was in the toilet and Stern was cranking out a string of cheap garbage games, cutting costs and employees and maybe on the verge of going out of business....

A few years later we have JJP, a better Stern and guys like Jpop and SkitB....

Will we be back to one in two or three years?

Really ?

Like what ?

When things are rolling he may well reach 3000 with the LE's and regulars.

LTG : )

The Hobbit...............

Pinball has been definitely been getting better and more interesting.

I hope the trend continues.

LTG : )

I think the fact that WOZ hasn't been delivered, and they want your money for the second game looks an awful lot like a Ponzi scheme. Use the next round of investors to pay off the first set, and hope with all your heart that the people in round 2 don't all want refunds and ruin your cash flow. I'm not saying that is what they're doing, but I could see how one could feel that way.

Totally agree. If the first game had been something exciting like The Hobbit, Tron, ACDC, Harry Potter, Xmen, etc; there would have been WAY more pre-orders (including me). On the other hand this might have been a good strategy to start slowly and work their way up.

Sold out to distributors. Same as X-Men sold out but distributors still have them.

You can bank on Bally.... er, Barcrest.

Well, they supposedly were "pre-ordered" faster then they were produced; but how fast is "fast"? I have heard of no one who cannot get a LE. A few post here and at RGP asking if anyone would sell their spot but I don't see a weekly bump from the same person begging or offering a high premium for one. There are quite a few posters offering their slot every month.

Don't let anyone bluff that there is a long waiting list either. That could be sales puffery to suck someone in who is on the fence.

No worse than one of the new game sellers who posts how each and every new pin is the best earner ever.

Of course if they said a game blew chunks, they'd have trouble selling the ones they have on hand.

Long live puffery !

LTG : )

A couple of points;

Why in the world would anyone care about a game's serial number? Other than maybe one of the first few serial numbers or the very last one, who in the world cares? Did anyone ever request a certain serial number from Stern or Bally or Premier etc? Do Ford Mustang collectors try to get the same serialized VIN number on each model of vehicle?

As far as Jack needing money for expenses, you can rule out production employees because I recall him saying early on that the Elaut redemption game production employees in New Jersey will be used for JJP production. Although Jack "resigned" from Elaut, it seems he is still involved or is a silent partner. Some of these employees are the ones who build the cranes that Elaut operates/operated under Jack at Six Flags with the iPad boxes with an off-center heavy weight making them virtually impossible to win. When I read the note that "box must be brought to office UNOPENED otherwise no prize awarded" I knew there was something shady going on.

Hello Kitty .

LTG will also appreciate this as a response to his recent post quoting me.

Funny how these Stern "garbage games" always got a "Jack played it, he likes it" recommendation on the Pinball sales site. Yet, as soon as Jack broke away as a Stern distributor, he called Stern games "pieces of garbage" (video proof available). But, everyone loves and trusts him. Well, after this little Hobbit fiasco, maybe 90% of his fans still love him and some are down to a "like" status.

Amazing how that loyalty can change quickly sometimes.

A lot of people are saying how great WOZ is and #1 has yet to be in the field or location for any amount of time for an honest evaluation or sea trials. The Titanic was bigger and better also......

Requesting your loyal customers to pony up for #2 before #1 is delivered is interesting.

There could have been a way to satisfy the ECLEWOZ customers:
- asking the refundable $500 deposit for the LE now, and giving them a relatively short notice to join. Non-WOZ buyers could enroll as well. Assuming the 1000+500 spots are taken, some Non-Woz would be on a waiting list.
- For the ECLEWOZ buyers: delaying the next paiement(s) until the WOZ game is at home for 4-8 weeks - and this delay would be determined for each customer depending on its own shipping date. That way people would decide if they want to support JJP again based on hard evidence. It would also give them a fair reward over non-WOZ buyers would have to stick to the original schedule... and provide cash to JJP.

As a non ECLEWOZ buyer, I would consider this model fair.

Of course you didn't answer my question.

Jack should know, he was and still is backing warranties on Stern games he sold.

Though if it's the video I think it is, I believe he was referring to more recent pins from LOTR LE on.

So put me down on the love status.

If nothing else for the mere fact I just happened to be doing business with Pinball Sales and Jack, and Stern Pinball for the same number of years.

One company treated me right, one didn't.

My money goes to one company and not the other.

Though I hope both companies are very successful and grow.

LTG : )

This is what we need, is skit-b-pin going to be a player, who knows, it would be nice to have 5-6 titles getting made per year, a little price war would be great for us, obviously none of can agree on whatever title we all like, Win-Win my friends!

Im also launching my own company- 1st title will be a rugby game- 10k payment due by this christmas

That sums it up perfectly. And if the payments for TH now help funding the finishing touches on WOZ, where will the funding for the Hobbit come from?

And that's a problem? The 'builder' is ASKING...is there a gun to your head? Show me where it says you MUST buy The Hobbit. My actual house builder could also ask if I want another house built...I'm guessing my answer would probably be no.

All this bitching is just damn annoying...It's pretty simple. If you don't like JPP business practice ..don't buy the damn thing. I feel like I'm at my grandma's Bridge game reading this post

It can't be that terrible. I'm not sure I've seen a pinball manufacture pre-sell some 1200-1400ish machines (and yes..I'm guessing at that number)