Haven’t lost money on anything yet….that is until is sell my JJP GNR

All the games I played at the arcade

4000 plays on a TS4? Are you trying to invent some sort of Cheney-style, Geneva-approved torture?

TS4 is not that bad or even JJPs worse pin. Looking at you GnR.

about half and half. What most of you newer guys don't get is we all used to take a hit on almost every game.

As a new guy, I think the pinball culture currently (all I know) is wild.

A LOT of people talk about these things like they're assets and they're just not. Sure they won't depreciate down to zero and will pretty much always be worth something (even if that something is $100), but it's a toy. A toy with zero redeeming practical value at all, it's the definition of depreciation.

As far as I'm concerned I expect to sell for less than I bought it for, that's just the cost of ownership.

It's easy to start thinking ANYTHING is an investment or is always going to appreciate in value when when you can repeatedly buy something, use it, and sell it for more than you bought it for. Whether it be pins, cars, or Beanie Babies. But eventually markets self-correct, and that silliness stops.

That’s a good outlook and you will enjoy this hobby and addiction so much more.

I appreciate this holistic view. I felt the exact same way when entering the hobby and still feel the same way somewhat. It’s a toy/electronic etc. I figured depreciation was inevitable. Just makes sense. My first pin was STH Premium and TSPP.

My pins may lose value over time and that’s perfectly fine. I’m not in it for money I’m in it for the enjoyment of the hobby. But I don’t want to get killed either.

That being said. As a fellow Canuck… some guys are paying $25-30k for certain titles. STH LE, JJP Pirates and many others. Yes it’s still a toy but with the utmost respect, you haven’t spent crazy money on your pins and for those who did, they don’t want huge losses. Those hurt.

JP30 came out and anyone who owned an original JP LE lost $4k usd instantly. (Very debatable on the actual value of loss but a significant loss was had)

Same deal will go for anyone who spent a mint on Stranger Things and what will happen if stern remakes it. There’s many titles that could be mentioned.

Pinball culture is 100% wild. Market was through the roof for the last couple years and things are getting back to normal. Unsettling for those who “overspent”.

Al in all… if I buy NIB, I expect it to go down in value. That’s the way most things work. If your in it to make money… may want to look at other ventures.

As for my biggest loss… JJP GNR and it wasn’t too bad. If they remake Stranger Things my biggest loss would be my LE but it’s not going anywhere so if the price is $1k or 100k it’s irrelevant.

I expect to win some and lose some and likely break even in the end. I definitely consider my machines assets. When you can sell something for 10-15k, it's an asset.

Took a 4K hit on a SV Alien, I liked the game a lot & was in two minds to sell it due to a new game coming in.
The longer i kept this game the more i would have lost, games outside the Stern circle are way harder to move on.

Long live Stern.

You mean people really take a loss? Luckily haven't happened yet.

About 8 years I lost 2 grand on a TMNT Data East (that was what it was worth back then, Total cost. About 5 grand now) because I gave it to a friend so he had a Christmas present for his kids.
Instead of paying me for it he got on the drugs & hocked my pinnie. Once I found it was no longer at his place I tracked it to a porn shop. Moron hocked it for $450. Too late for me though when I got to shop it was sold already. Stupid idiot lost everything including his family

Here are the bought and sold prices on the 62 pins that have been through my basement in the past 5.5 years from biggest loss to biggest win. I don't have the bought prices listed on games currently in my collection as eventually they will likely be sold/traded. The math gets fuzzy with trade values and doesn't include parts/labor/transport.

Biggest Losses: NIB Weird Al LE (-$4300), Nice Flash Gordon (-$1700), Nice Nine Ball (-$1000), Nice Fathom (-$1000)
Biggest Win: Rick and Morty (+$4000), Twilight Zone (+$3,300), Indiana Jones (+$2000)

pasted_image (resized).png

Only game i sold for 1k less than what i paid, was a couple weeks old Star Trek Le to Ryza back in the day.

Apart from that I've always done ok.

1. EHOH, bought new, 40 plays - $1800 loss
2. IMDN Premium, bought new, 850 plays - $1800 loss
2. MET PRO, bought HUO, 300 plays - $1700 loss

It’s very rare that I don’t lose money on the sale of a pinball machine. Don’t believe all the horn tooters who insist this hobby is deprecation proof.

But also don't forget that Pinball is probably one of the hobbies you lose less than average when cashing out. Buy a boat/RV/Hot Tub/ATV/Motorcycle (especially new) and see how much money you lose on the resale in a short time.

SantaEatsCheese I am sure you are a great guy . But man that chart screams I will never have a beer with you

For the first few years in the hobby, my basic experience was to buy a Bally/Williams pin, throw on new rubbers, drop in LEDs, get all the switches working and flippers snappy, enjoy the pin for 3-6 months, then sell it for around $300 more than I paid. Made the hobby pretty much free so long as you didn't count gas, parts, transportation time, elbow grease.

Thats the sweet spot in the hobby IMO. Buy a used pin, play it 6 months, sell/trade it for +/- $300 what you have in it. That is a sustainable model.

Buy every NIB then sell it 4 months later for the next new hotness is beyond my financial means.

Lol I did not blow up and try to read that chart . Over the top crazy in my world . To create, maintain and certainly to read on a forum . Wouldn’t read it at work .

You wouldn’t take the time to read the chart, but you would take the time to make a couple posts bitching about it. Oh, the irony! I thought the chart was an interesting way to visualize frequency of trades and duration of ownership. But I like data. This is a pinball forum where a lot of us are over the top regarding pinball. I would have a beer and talk pinball with any of you crazies!

Ok so the key going forward is to just not list them as "Nice" since they all were in the L category. Maybe we go with decent and see where that term lands.

gnr if i ever sell it.

Jurassic Park LE if I ever sell it which isn't happening!

Should have got a pro Barry. I told you

How much did you pay for it, why would you lose money on it???

I paid $17.7k cash and put another few grand in mods into it. So unrealized losses and I’m keeping it forever now! Same with Metallica LE, Maiden LE, Aerosmith LE, AC/DC Luci, Zeppelin LE, GnR LE, Rush LE, Kiss, Alice, etc. They are bolted down

The green LE is the best looking package IMO. I’ve never owned a pro, but I’m sure the flow is great and game is good value

Love sharing beers and pinballs, can’t stand the nerds .

And I would still grab a beer with him as long as no charts, data and graphs came up .

With your collection, I'd set up some fancy lawyer trust to hold a bunch of cash and the pinballs to whoever you deed those too and sleep like a baby! Keep that collection together for the future. Also if you lived a ton more that's also cool.

Ha, thanks. Still haven’t gotten around to taking out a separate collectibles policy for them, but need to! I just turned 51 and don’t have kids, so I do need to figure that out LOL. Wish we could take our collections into the afterlife

I love that chart santa made- if for only that it is a way to visualize how long a pin stayed in the collection. This would be an easy reference to use if someone needs to trade you one you've already had. Also you're in DC and santa is in MD I'm sure there are some fine establishments near you guys to make this happen, if I were near 1st round would be on me for certain, since santa has put up with a lot from me!

Gnr and it’s not even close.

It's about to be Venom LE apparently.

https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/archive/146618

https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/archive/140304

https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/archive/137216

These were "nice" pins. But losing money on them was totally my fault.

In 2021 I made a series of trades that went Twilight Zone (for about 7k) to Indiana Jones to Attack From Mars LE... adding about $1000 in parts in there. I enjoyed and played the crap out of all of them. I also picked up a Rick and Morty I ordered day one at MSRP for $8000. I went to Allentown Pinball show, put "I don't want to sell it prices on them" and left the show with $25,500 in cash... Almost a $10,000 profit for having A grade games in my house for a year and a half. "Wow! This hobby is amazing! I can't lose!". I set aside some of that money to pay for my dream theme pin (Weird Al LE), and having just played in my first real tournament decided that it would be great to practice on some early solid state pins. I stopped by on the way home and picked up that beautiful Flash Gordon (Ass Kicker) and a finickey but beautiful Nine Ball. Flash Gordon was great, and I ended up trading Nine Ball for Fathom after a few months to get out of it, then sold Fathom a few months later. So, despite losing my butt on a few pins there, I still came out a little ahead overall, all the while playing a crud ton on amazing games. I will say I ended up not really caring for Fathom (its beautiful though), but even after all of that I came out a little ahead.

How did I get so far ahead on Twilight Zone? When I got it home and really looked at it I noticed all sorts of weird diferences on the playfield. Turned out to be a very early sample. https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/archive/120878

You guys do realize that the Cheese eating Santa is like 6 foot 6 inches tall and probably has karate kid moves or does Mission Impossible stuff in his spare time?

I never lose money. Never!

Throwing it away is more my style.

I would like to add that I think the SantaEatsCheese pinball machine spreadsheet is amazing. It just blows my mind how many pinball machines he has cycled through in recent years. Very cool that he has been able to experience the enjoyment of so many machines, variety of eras, and different manufacturers. It is neat seeing how long they lasted in his ownership and the financial side to it as well. I've only been in the hobby a few years, so my list is much smaller, but I'll probably document it before I forget the details.

I’ve also kept a list of every game I’ve bought and sold since 2002 and it would blow your fucking mind!!!!

I don't keep track anymore.

I’m in The 60’s (number of games in and out over 10 years )
Lost on most but did gain on two a ton once made up for some of the losses. I might just keep Venom le

Come on... you're exaggerating just a bit. I'm only 6'4" tall (not 6'6") and I left the USMC 10 years ago. I was only a Green Belt MCMAP (Marine Corps Martial Arts Program) instructor as a B-Billet, with my primary job in Communications. I never did any of the Mission Impossible stuff in uniform. My only deployment was supporting PSYOP, no one ever shot at me, and I never made it past Captain, and currently push papers.

Humble Brag Over.

Thanks!

I really have been enjoying the hobby. We live in a pinball hobbyist dense environment in the North East. If you try to always buy the latest pin, or sell every pin for cash when you are ready to switch... you are going to have a bad time. If you put it up for sale "trades welcomed" and just take the best deal you are mildly interested in, you can trade pins pretty easily or take cash when it pops up. I also strongly endorse the concept of the "temporary trade". Got Monster Bash in for my Elvira on a trade through Christmas now. I've gotten some interesting trades that came out of left field. Original Attack From Mars for my Jurassic Park Pro. I've also done a much better job of making people come to me for trades recently.