(Topic ID: 96270)

What failed today? Modern Pinball NYC Machine fails.


By Eddie

5 years ago



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  • 650 posts
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  • Latest reply 3 years ago by pinaholic
  • Topic is favorited by 87 Pinsiders

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There are 650 posts in this topic. You are on page 7 of 13.
#301 4 years ago

1/3

Kiss Two POP bumpers and two standup target switches out of adjustment

Mustang 3rd GI light board has failed.

BSD skill shot not registering.

FH When I arrived the machine was off and for good reason the PDB was missing. I found it In the back room on a table. I installed it in the machine and found numerous switches out of adjustment.

Now I have to figure out what is wrong as on startup for player one on ball one only, it starts in super dog mode? Now if you restart a game during a game it starts player one ball one normally.

Optos test fine as do voltages, super dog switches and diodes. Only on player one at startup does this happen and sometimes this can happen to player 2,or 4 in a multi ball game but not on the first ball.

Anytime reaching the 10 mil mark the game resets which is another really odd thing.

All of this is still the result of the mis-wired flipper coil.

On a side note one of the owners Steve Zahler has begun working with NYC schools on a special learning program about pinball and the science related to it here at Modern.

Classes are brought to Modern where Steve goes over Pinball machines and what makes them work.
I think its a great idea and should be expanded to other cities and states.

more info here http://www.modernpinballnyc.com/education/

Posted are a few pics of a table he through together last night with some random parts that he will discuss in this mornings class.

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#302 4 years ago
Quoted from Eddie:

On a side note one of the owners Steve Zahler has begun working with NYC schools on a special learning program about pinball and the science related to it here at Modern.
Classes are brought to Modern where Steve goes over Pinball machines and what makes them work.
I think its a great idea and should be expanded to other cities and states.
more info here http://www.modernpinballnyc.com/education/
Posted are a few pics of a table he through together last night with some random parts that he will discuss in this mornings class.

That's awesome!

#303 4 years ago

Agreed, glad to see future generations learning about pinball

#304 4 years ago

2/4

WH20 Left Flipper link worn.

FG slingshot post broke off in T Nut.

WPT 2 Drop target assemblies. Assembly 1 coil sleeve and dirt froze it up. Assembly 2 coil wire off of lug.

#305 4 years ago

2/5

I failed to report what failed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I had a small window to take a look at the FH PDB but kept getting interrupted by down machines that were being used in the league.

It was one of those nights that there was something failing like clockwork every 5 mins so I literally forgot since I had last posted 3 days ago what I had done as there was so much.

Needless to say the PDB didnt get fixed, as all I had a chance to do was to reflow certain questionable components and connectors. The regulators did test fine however.

I do know that there was a trace blown or component hole that was torn somewhere that I just didnt have time to find.

#306 4 years ago

2/10

WH20 Left Flipper mech, Ball popper, TIP 36 and 102 transistors

Notice the coil that someone installed in the mech. The machine actually played awhile before the transistors blew. Can you guess why it caused the transistors to blow?
1.jpg

The ball popper cup also had two broken tangs. this will cause the ball not to shoot straight up.
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2/11

DM VUK , Both Flipper plunger assemblies.

VUK didnt work as the opto switch wasnt registering in test mode.

Pulled the optos to test both transmitter and receiver.

Here you can see the emitter working through the camera

3.jpg

The voltage change on the receiver also checked out as fine. Soooo I checked all of the other playfield optos in switch test and they too were out soooo I checked the switch matrix column with said optos and tested the non opto switches and...

yes the first non opto target I tested a stand up target was out sooooo I checked the daisey chained double wire lug on it and pop a wire just separated as it must have come off but not let go.

Here is the culprit right after it let go and note the switch corrosion which contributed to the wire connection failure,
4.jpg

TZ numerous switch registers

FH Diverter

FG Lamp ballast.

#307 4 years ago
Quoted from Eddie:

Can you guess why it caused the transistors to blow?

Apparently no one knows, so spill it.

#308 4 years ago

2/11

VND 2 different ramp switches

With only a few minutes before League and Super League and a school class begins this is one of the hard to get to switches that needed replacing.

1-587.jpg

Avengers Left Flipper due to the standard problem with Stern Transistor shorting on.

Here I had just removed the transistor and caps no time for more pics. I would have liked to have cleaned the board of old flux but we are not set up for that and the time factor.

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DM Opto switch.

FH Diverter from yesterday not working was due to the plunger coming off of the diverter because the hex screw backed out of the collet.

#309 4 years ago

Any time frame on when Wrestlemania will be coming in?

#310 4 years ago
Quoted from Trekkie1978:

Any time frame on when Wrestlemania will be coming in?

Not yet

#311 4 years ago

2/12: Demo Man elevator error. Wire broken on upper opto, and leads of connector on the elevator index board (lower opto) were bent and not connected. Fixed. (The various rarely-used claw option switches were activated to remove the credit dot too!)

#312 4 years ago

12/17

AC /DC Both Flippers

Here the plunger link broke
1.jpg

Here the coil stop sheared.

2.jpg

DM... R Flipper sticking due to EOS switch being worn and catching the pawl EOS needed to be replaced.

BZ- Left Pop Bumper switch came loose from playfield. Ball guide worked its way loose.

Wh20 Extra ball switch due to wires off of lug

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Whirlpool switch failed internally needed to be replaced.

XENON Yes XENON the same machine that was being left in the city has been left at Modern which I believe now owns it. I understand the owners need to unload it. Both Flipper assemblies are shot. Right Flipper flutters either hold winding shot or diodes are bad I was just trying to sort it out when called to League machines.

Both Flipper brackets have stripped screw holes.
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Many lights not working don't know the cause. Bulbs.Sockets or board transistors. haven't had a chance to really go over the machine but I have a feeling I will find a lot of issues.

#313 4 years ago
Quoted from Eddie:

Avengers LE teserac? Cube cracked.

Avengers doesn't like having the Cube man.
It's like auto-launch, auto-break.

#314 4 years ago

12/18

FG ball trough switches and shooter lane switch out . The cause was the right return lane switch had a broken daisy chained ground wire hidden under its insulation sleeve This was a tough one to diagnose especially with the noise a weak flashlight and the amount of league players and off of school kids banging into you the entire time while trying to work on it LOL

PZ F115 blows I do not know the state the machine was in when this occurred but the machine was down with that message left to me.

Sure enough replaced the fuse powered up the machine and a real slow burning red glow of the fuse filament like an old lamp until it died and nothing else on the machine came up either?

Replaced u20 (without a socket as Modern doesn't have any) powered up the machine an whoa all sorts of nothing. No GI and no display but the boot tone does come on. thats as far as I had a chance to evaluate and hopefully will have time tonight to look into it more. As a side note the wire harness is one complete spaghetti hack maybe ill take pics if I get a chance. Whoever installed the new connecters before the machine arrived here... well let me leave it at that.

#315 4 years ago

12/19

AC/DC Ball trough optos due to the central green wire being disconnected from its connector but not completely so it appeared to be fine. A light pull and out it came.

Here after it was reinserted.
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FG Right Flipper due to many things

Here the Link to Pawl bolt snapped its head off
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To repair this the base plate had to come off and it was found that the coil stop screw holes were stripped so the bolts holding the coil stop on were held with locknuts ugh.
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To make matters worse the flipper bushing had sheared off on the playfield end. Without replacement parts I had to dig through an assortment of used pawls and links to rebuild the mech we did have a new baseplate that had to have everything new installed on it.
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To give an idea of the amount of play these machines get I just cleaned this machine LAST NIGHT and this was the state of all four that were cleaned LAST NIGHT.

Note the ball trail and haze of filth along each side
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Look at Stewies face and the rest of the area all filthy
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Here on the right I just started cleaning again so you can see how dirty the machine got in one night of use.
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TSPP ramp switch due to wire form gate being stuck up
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Gate was stuck because mounting bracket got bent in towards it
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Again Machine was cleaned last night.
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CSI Scoop Switch due to broken actuator. Because of horrible design getting to this switch is a nightmare even thou you can see it in the clear but look how the mounting screws are. Note the heads face towards all of the wiring and assemblies Duh.
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To access them the simple solution would be to remove the scoop assembly no big deal right? Wrong to do this you would have to remove the upper playfield ramp and two sets of plastics first which cover the ramp mounting screws. NUTs I say.

The other way to get to this switch is to remove the drop down target assembly by first loosening the three lamp sockets which get in the way of doing so.
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Now you can have access to the screw heads after removing the insert socket as well . Here you can finally see the screw heads and note they are different someone got there paws in here at one time.
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Here you can see the insert lamp socket that had to come out to it dropped between the two 44 sockets in the pic.
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Now with micro surgeon precision you can maneuver between all of the wires and reach in to get to the screw heads. Finally the switch is removed which could have been done in seconds had it been mounted from the other side. Like I said bad design.
Here is the new and old switch
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Didn't get time to go over PZ but here are pics of the state of the wire harness

Can someone say GI Short?
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Most connectors were changed out with new IDC at one time without lockout pins and with horrible markings that didn't match up and a lot of the connectors are also broken.
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Duct tape was used to mark many connectors needless to say gooey glue is all over the harness its a real sticky mess.
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Did a bomb go off in here? Note some connectors just floating around for fun

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#316 4 years ago

2/24

Metallica………. Shooter Lane switch activator wire.
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Metallica……...Lane Diverter Coil lug broke off

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ST... Upper Flipper Stuck Due to the combination of Link/Pawl bolt too tight and dirt.
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ST ...Sling shot coils loose due to coil mounting brackets too far back on assemblies
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My camera due to batteries going dead

Punchy the Clown………. Sling Shot rubber ring broke

BSD……….. Both flippers weak due to both EOS switches completely out of adjustment and the flipper coil stop being angled away from the coil due to a Stern coil spring being installed?

Xenon……………... blowing Fuse F4

#317 4 years ago

2/25

GS On startup machine scored 10pts and took away players first ball IE started the game on ball 4.

This was due to the slingshot switch remaining closed from being out of adjustment.

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No inserts? No Problem

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Can you see how one was "Fixed"?

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Maybe now? Mylar over the hole thats how you do it. UGH
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Ball wasn't kicking out of trough very hard. Due to grease hardening and an old brass coil sleeve filled with old grease and dirt jamming the kicker assembly.

Here the brass sleeve is about to be replaced with new nylon.

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Assembly about to be removed for real cleaning and straightening as it has been peened over throughout its life. In this pic it was given a super filial alcohol cleaning but its not good enough.
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BR…. two flippers

Xenon right flipper due to EOS switch adjustment ? Not sure yet.

A Poll has been added to this thread.

#318 4 years ago

I read every post in this thread. It simply amazes me to see what parts fail with continuous stress these games are put through.

Thanks for doing it.

#319 4 years ago

Hey, Eddie - Sounds like you're having a crisis of confidence with this thread (and your poll). Keep it up - as a repeat customer of MP, I'm always fascinated to see what it takes to keep an arcade going...and even more interested to see what parts generally fail when machines take a constant pounding. Thanks for the great work!

#320 4 years ago
Quoted from beelzeboob:

Hey, Eddie - Sounds like you're having a crisis of confidence with this thread (and your poll). !

Not at all. Its more like it takes a lot of extra work to do this while working at Modern especially the pics and if no one is gaining from the thread or the thread isn't viewed I can make my life at Modern that much easier LOL.

#321 4 years ago

This thread is awesome! I learn an awful lot every time I visit it. Please don't stop, Eddie.

#322 4 years ago

Poll should change to: Should the other tech be fired?

I anticipate similar results!

Continue this thread Eddie, it's awesome.

#323 4 years ago

I love this thread!

#324 4 years ago

I love this thread too. Check it ever time something new is added.

#325 4 years ago

Please don't stop the thread.

I really appreciate the time and effort you put into it. I'm learning a lot from this thread.

Any delivery date for Wrestlemania yet?

#326 4 years ago
Quoted from Robotoes:

Should the other tech be fired?

What other tech? From what I've seen Eddie is the only tech there. The other guy's a hack & should only be allowed to take out the trash and clean the restrooms. Eddie's doing a hell of a great job and it's understandable that he can't document everything when he has to fix 8 pins in 45 mins.
Keep up the good work Eddie, we love the thread.

#327 4 years ago

Eddie...

As ex-operator, I am interested in coin / failure rate on pins, or something like that.

Any "data" ?

BTW...this thread is GREAT !

#328 4 years ago
Quoted from cro_pinman:

Eddie...
As ex-operator, I am interested in coin / failure rate on pins, or something like that.
Any "data" ?
BTW...this thread is GREAT !

Cant help you there as all machines at Modern are on free play!

#329 4 years ago
Quoted from mwsmith:

What other tech? From what I've seen Eddie is the only tech there. The other guy's a hack & should only be allowed to take out the trash and clean the restrooms. Eddie's doing a hell of a great job and it's understandable that he can't document everything when he has to fix 8 pins in 45 mins.
Keep up the good work Eddie, we love the thread.

from one mr. smith to another, you've hit the nail on the head.

#330 4 years ago
Quoted from Eddie:

Cant help you there as all machines at Modern are on free play!

OK.... games/failure rate maybe ?

(any statistic ? )

Greetings from Croatia

#331 4 years ago

Just found this thread and LOVE IT! Please continue!

#332 4 years ago

Keep it up Eddie. I love checking up on this thread.

#333 4 years ago

Love this thread and with Robin's latest update you now know (currently) 48 Pinsiders have it as a favorite. Appreciate the time you put in and seeing the wide range of ways things go wrong...

#334 4 years ago

I'm here every new post..... ..............Joey

#335 4 years ago

as an operator I feel your pain, I maintain 10 machines on location and it seems to be a constant battle to keep them working

13
#336 4 years ago

2/26

Pinsiders have spoken so the thread remains. Thanks for the extra work!!!!!!

Kiss..... Top POP due to switch blades making continuous contact.
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Two POP bumper lights Due to each coming loose in their lamp socket.

BR...... Both right side Flippers not working. First thing checked was the fuse at F5 and sure enough it was blown and replaced then came the big failure!
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While swiveling the upper playfield back up it would not budge at the half way point. It was all out of whack and why????

The Right side pivot Tube had backed off of the Head Bolt completely and got wedged underneath the bolt within the upper playfield slot. ( There is an L shaped slot/channel in the upper playfield that the pivot tube slides in to enable the upper playfield to be raised and lowered.) This locked the upper playfield in a half way up position. What a nightmare. With the pivot tube stuck under the bolt the upper playfield couldnt be removed to fix the issue.
Pivot slot.jpg

The fix was to remove the bolt then, use a magnet to get the pivot out of the playfield slot not an easy task as it had been wedged. Now the playfield could be slid off of the Left side pivot and removed.
Here you can see the bolt that holds the pivot tube and the damage along the inner back box caused by the misaligned wedged playfield.
2.jpg

After dealing with that nonsense the flippers were tested and they worked again only the lower right was fluttering. Due to power wires coming off of the coil lug. After a resolder the flipper worked but was weak and that was due to the EOS switch having had its contacts worn completely through in the pic you might be able to make out that the larger contact was worn in half. This is what also lead to the F5 fuse blowing to begin with.
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T2 Drop target not working Due to coil sleeve loosing its rim/lip/skirt/flange which ever you choose to call it. I call it flange.
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Both Flippers sticking up due to link and pawl wear.

CSI Centrifuge post not working due to Opto connector coming loose.

#337 4 years ago

Awesome thread. Thanks for taking the time to post the issues.

#338 4 years ago

I love this thread, it's very helpful to see your solutions to such a wide variety of problems.

#339 4 years ago

3/3

Forgot to take camera!!!!!! Ugh

ST Once again the most hard to get to Transceiver burned out. This is the third one already so taking everything off to get to it is almost second nature. I wanted the camera to take a pic of where I want to drill a hole in a plastic for easier access to a screw which mounts the Vengence ship base.

POP bumper Ring

Center drop target lifter plate is about to wear through.

BR…….. EOS switch

Two stand up targets worked loose and a pop bumper coil bracket.

Avengers……. Flipper link broke at plunger.

Xenon…... Left flipper occasionally stays up due to old coil installed back into assembly.

AC/DC…….. burned drop target coil due to transistor shorting on.

Kiss……... Lamp transistor blown.

#340 4 years ago

Thanks for continuing to post these. I feel much better about things breaking on my machines. We had a league play here last night and there were a number of things that broke/went wrong. Nothing major, just small/annoying/weird things that interrupted play. Like, someone, somehow getting the ball wedged inside one of the slingshots on CV. Good to know its not just me and my machines.

#341 4 years ago

Having worked both in "retail" (back in the days when Namco stores were king), and in distribution, at a major distributor (back in the days before the industry 'contracted') ... this is such a fun thread.

So far you're basically just continuing down the list of "been there, done that, seen that, fixed that" ...

These games really aren't doing anything all that surprising, just what heavily used games do.

You should be beta-testing for stern and jjp though ... talk about an easy way to find what breaks.

Fast.

#342 4 years ago
Quoted from litz:

Having worked both in "retail" (back in the days when Namco stores were king), and in distribution, at a major distributor (back in the days before the industry 'contracted') ... this is such a fun thread.
So far you're basically just continuing down the list of "been there, done that, seen that, fixed that" ...
These games really aren't doing anything all that surprising, just what heavily used games do.
You should be beta-testing for stern and jjp though ... talk about an easy way to find what breaks.
Fast.

I know he isn't the first ever person to deal with maintaining machines on location, but you have got to give credit that he's doing an awesome job of documenting it. And documenting what poor repairs can lead to. Awesome thread.

#343 4 years ago
Quoted from litz:

Having worked both in "retail" (back in the days when Namco stores were king), and in distribution, at a major distributor (back in the days before the industry 'contracted') ... this is such a fun thread.
So far you're basically just continuing down the list of "been there, done that, seen that, fixed that" ...
These games really aren't doing anything all that surprising, just what heavily used games do.
You should be beta-testing for stern and jjp though ... talk about an easy way to find what breaks.
Fast.

That's why I never buy a machine when it first comes out. I always wait a little while till they fix the bugs.

For instance, My Transformers LE is #410. Mine was built with code 1.5 (I believe that was the 3rd update) and it had the update pack already installed (Megatron air ball stopper, extra plastic above bumblebee, etc.). My Star Trek LE is #518. That had the screw by pop bumpers and the proper spring for the drop target installed.

When Star Wars comes out, I'll pay for it on day one, but then tell them to wait until a higher LE number is released.

#344 4 years ago
Quoted from litz:

You should be beta-testing for stern

I had discussed that possibility with George Gomez when he made a vista to Modern and he seemed open to the idea also saying that he was aware of my thread and it was followed at Stern for that exact reason. ( finding out what was breaking) Nothing has come of it as of yet.

3/4

AC/DC had a transistor replaced after one shorted but its not surprising as it must have been replaced once in the past as the hack work was horrendous. Here you can see the board after I removed the transistor and the shape the pads were in before the removal!

1.jpg

Here is the back of the board.
2.jpg

Here are two other transistors (Flipper) that were replaced at one time in the past look at the hack job!

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Xenon Left flipper issue was addressed and was caused by installing an old bad coil back int the machine.

Can you tell at least one thing that is wrong with the way both assemblies were installed? This is the right side.

4.jpg

Here the new left flipper coil has been installed and soon to be wired up. One thing of note that was just brought up on another thread is the location of the coil spring washer. On this one the washer is against the coil holding bracket and the coil stop sits nice and flush with the coil.

6.jpg

On the right side flipper note the gap between the coil stop and coil and the angle that the stop sits at due to the washer being mounted on the stop side. It may be hard to see perfectly in the pics as my camera really sucks.

5.jpg

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WCS ..Was asked to see why a center rollover stopped working or lighting. Well why wouldn't it work? Someone hot glued the entire assembly together along with the switch blades and left the lamp socket hanging to boot! Welcome to my world.

8.jpg

#345 4 years ago
Quoted from Eddie:

WCS ..Was asked to see why a center rollover stopped working or lighting. Well why wouldn't it work? Someone hot glued the entire assembly together along with the switch blades and left the lamp socket hanging to boot! Welcome to my world.
8.jpg

This confuses me, and maybe it's just the wording, but if someone asked whjy the center rollover 'stopped working', that indicates that it WAS working at some point, yes?

So that would indicate that someone there at Modern did the hot-glue .. uhm, 'fix'? Why wouldn't you have heard about it before now?

#346 4 years ago
Quoted from Coyote:

This confuses me, and maybe it's just the wording, but if someone asked whjy the center rollover 'stopped working', that indicates that it WAS working at some point, yes?
So that would indicate that someone there at Modern did the hot-glue .. uhm, 'fix'? Why wouldn't you have heard about it before now?

I am only there tue-wed-thrs eve from 5 until 9:30- 10. I was there Sat as well because my wife decorates the Themed B-day parties for Modern and on Sat the switch was working. So you deduced the obvious as to what goes on at Modern. Something I have been pulling my hair out over in this thread.

#347 4 years ago

love the thread. thx for keeping it going eddie.

#348 4 years ago
Quoted from Eddie:

I am only there tue-wed-thrs eve from 5 until 9:30- 10. I was there Sat as well because my wife decorates the Themed B-day parties for Modern and on Sat the switch was working. So you deduced the obvious as to what goes on at Modern. Something I have been pulling my hair out over in this thread.

Holy. Shit.

That floors me. In the years (back in the 90's) when I worked at several arcades/family fun centers - and I wasn't the only tech - we would leave end-of-day notes to each other, letting the other guy know what was done. (i.e. "The rollover switch wasn't working. I hot-glued it to stop people from complaining.".. )

Keep up the reports, these are neat. And now that I have a better understanding of what goes on, a little bit more of it makes sense.

#349 4 years ago
Quoted from Eddie:

Can you tell at least one thing that is wrong with the way both assemblies were installed? This is the right side.

The coil was mounted backwards, with the wires on the same side as the coil stop instead of the opposite side of the coil stop (i.e., makes solder joints more susceptible to breakage due to coil stop vibration)?

Quoted from Eddie:

4.jpg
Here the new left flipper coil has been installed and soon to be wired up. One thing of note that was just brought up on another thread is the location of the coil spring washer. On this one the washer is against the coil holding bracket and the coil stop sits nice and flush with the coil.
6.jpg
On the right side flipper note the gap between the coil stop and coil and the angle that the stop sits at due to the washer being mounted on the stop side. It may be hard to see perfectly in the pics as my camera really sucks.

So the lesson here is the coil spring washer should always be on the opposite side of the coil stop?

#350 4 years ago

Thanks for taking the time to continue this thread! Very informative.

Mike

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