(Topic ID: 96270)

What failed today? Modern Pinball NYC Machine fails.


By Eddie

5 years ago



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45
#1 5 years ago

Just thought that working at Modern Pinball NYC is the perfect place to stress test machines as they are played almost continuously.

Things fail at an extraordinary rate so I thought I would log here what causes a machine to go down so that you can have a general idea of what it takes to run a machine on location or simply wondering what might fail on your machine. I will not post cause or repair unless asked for as it would take too long.

I will start this record from What has failed since Monday July 1 hope this helps.

ACDC Canon assembly seized Avengers LE teserac? Cube cracked.
WCS Ball motor Seized
WW Switch failed
MB Switch failed
WH20 Opto switch Failed
T2 Left Flipper Coil Shorted
WOZ Light board Failed
SS Diverter Plunger spring Broke
AF L Flipper Coil separated
Metallica Ball trough cracked
TZ Shooter Diverter coil failed , Plunger Rubber tip fell apart
Kiss Spinner switch failed
FT Upper left loop gate intermittent
Numerous stuck balls and Bulbs?Leds out.
StarTrek new Stern Left Flipper coil separated.
DM Switch Failed

#2 5 years ago

My dad and I constantly say "THEY ARE ALL JUNK!!!!!!" because really, there is ALWAYS something.

#3 5 years ago

Please explain "flipper coil separated". I have never seen a coil bobbin separate unless it was a total melt down or I was trying to get a stuck sleeve out.

Just curious. Thanks for posting. A glimps into why most operators don't run pinball on location any longer. Its not so much all the things that can go wrong with a pin, its more about how today's current players are much more picky about how the games operate (as they should be).

#4 5 years ago

Wait, all this was in the last 3 days?

#5 5 years ago
Quoted from NextoPin:

Wait, all this was in the last 3 days?

Yes who knows what will happen tonight !

Quoted from CactusJack:

Please explain "flipper coil separated". I have never seen a coil bobbin separate unless it was a total melt down or I was trying to get a stuck sleeve out.
Just curious. Thanks for posting.

The back of the Bobbin and its cylinder literally separated never saw it before and it happened twice on 2 different machines. Basically the coils fell apart.

#6 5 years ago

I wonder how many of these were minor issues (say, fixable with parts on hand, less than 30 minutes) and how many were more major? It seems like a long list, but I wonder if a lot of them were pretty quick fixes?

#7 5 years ago
Quoted from westofrome:

I wonder how many of these were minor issues (say, fixable with parts on hand, less than 30 minutes) and how many were more major? It seems like a long list, but I wonder if a lot of them were pretty quick fixes?

Some fixes are quick Once you have diagnosed the problem correctly!

But again if its "Just a switch" Its usually in the hardest to get to area of a machine requiring the removal of half of a playfield etc. All while having customers play machines on either side of you.

On average about 4 Plungers a week fail and assembly brackets crack or break as well.

There is no way we can inventory a factories level of parts, which is pretty much what is needed, in order to get the machine 100% right away so the down time is usually just awaiting any needed part.

That said most fixes are under 30 mins closer to 20 with part in hand.

With this post in time you will get an idea of what goes and how often on location machines granted this place is not your typical location venue. These machines are played all of the time not to mention league and tournament days.

#8 5 years ago

Interesting thread, thanks.

#9 5 years ago

This is a great idea! Thanks for doing this!

#10 5 years ago

Cool stuff...If it ain't broke it ain't pinball I heard somewhere..

#11 5 years ago

Had mine up all error free for a month .... heaven

Tonight a saw a GI backboard string out on WH20, arghhh that damm molex J121 ...

But that much of breakdown tjeess

#12 5 years ago

How many games do you have. Just curious from a failure rate point of view.

#13 5 years ago

Every time I go in there I see you with a playfield up. Thanks for keeping that place together. Can't wait to see one of Sal's MMR in there. Which stern (white star to present) has been able to take a heavy beating and which ones are a nightmare? Have you noticed a comparison with Stern now using a higher gauge wire in their machines and service issues? Thanks for this post.

#14 5 years ago

Great to meet you Eddie. Kudos on the upkeep. Games all played great!

To be fair though, your list on the WOZ was generous. Maybe it gets more plays but that game is raggedy. Not you fault but you say light board failed. If 20% of the lights were working I would be surprised. I don't even recall seeing the munchkin land spot light working. The castle doors were removed and the winged monkey mech was disabled. ...and no Panzer, I'm not a JJP hater. I love the game and theme though I did sell mine a while back but that was a monetary decision, not an indictment on WOZ.

Keep up the great work.

#15 5 years ago

Hey, Eddie! I've seen you in there, too! You should cross-reference this thread with the other one trashing WOZ on location. Apparently, they're all broken all the time. Based on what you've said, pinball machines are always broken all the time. That'll happen when you have 3000 parts in every machine. Thanks for keeping Modern Pinball going; it's one of my favorite places to be!

#16 5 years ago

The gate on my ft is intermittent too. Going to deal with it tomorrow. Any suggestions?

-2
#17 5 years ago

You need to get the special Panzer edition WoZ from JJP. That one never, ever breaks.

#18 5 years ago
Quoted from Skins:

Great to meet you Eddie. Kudos on the upkeep. Games all played great!
To be fair though, your list on the WOZ was generous. Maybe it gets more plays but that game is raggedy. Not you fault but you say light board failed. If 20% of the lights were working I would be surprised. I don't even recall seeing the munchkin land spot light working. The castle doors were removed and the winged monkey mech was disabled. ...and no Panzer, I'm not a JJP hater. I love the game and theme though I did sell mine a while back but that was a monetary decision, not an indictment on WOZ.
Keep up the great work.

It was very nice meeting you. I am glad you had a good visit. As for the WOZ features of the Missing Monkey and the Doors that was not from the last three days from which this post has been started. There is also another tech from Fri-Mon day times that works on machines. I work eves Tues-Thurs. The Woz features mentioned were something that he was working on. I do not know what happened as we have no cross communication ( Something that has to change) so I left them in his hands. As for the lights the issue was resolved just after you left. It was a result of the same board issue reported earlier (The Fish Board)The lights are now 100%

The Failures of 7/3 were minimal (Must be because I started this post)

BR Three Leds out
ACDC Spinner Stuck

Quoted from PaulCoff:

Every time I go in there I see you with a playfield up. Thanks for keeping that place together. Can't wait to see one of Sal's MMR in there. Which stern (white star to present) has been able to take a heavy beating and which ones are a nightmare? Have you noticed a comparison with Stern now using a higher gauge wire in their machines and service issues? Thanks for this post.

Most common stern failures are

Ball trough Breakage and Opto boards failing both in the troughs and elsewhere on the playfields.

Flipper transistor failure is very common as well.

Slingshot Plungers breaking Common.

Flipper Return Spring Breakage

Coil Lug wires separating from the lugs.

Broken Plastics very very common (on all machines)

As I have said you will have a better idea of What fails,How often and Where as the months go on.

#19 5 years ago
Quoted from Eddie:

Flipper transistor failure is very common as well.

It has been my experience that the only time a Flipper MOSFET usually fails is due to a broken lead on the diode mounted to the coil. A common area for this failure was the ball shooter on T3. To solve this, I remotely mounted the diode on a small terminal strip next to the coil (Stern's DOT - Diodes on Terminals). After doing this mod, I never had to service the ball shooter driver again.

You may want to try adapting this to the flipper coils on your most chronic game and see how it works out. You can leave the diode on the flipper coil as redundant or just cut it off. Obviously, always use 1N4007 for the extra voltage spike protection.

#20 5 years ago

Tues 7-8

WCS Flipper Return spring broke
WH20 Bigfoots Hairpiece fell off!!!!!!!!!!
DM Left Flipper Broke in half, Ramp protector Broke off of ramp, Shorted switch

BR the Ball carrier was broken from the tech working on the machine last Sun. How? dont ask Im pissed as hell is all that I can say.

#21 5 years ago

Wed 7/9

TSPP Shooter lane Switch , Door Lock
BSD Auto Plunger
TZ Left Flipper assembly
WCS Ball motor and Gearbox
MB Drop target GearCluster
WW Lamp Row
Punchy the Clown Apron fasteners worked loose.

#22 5 years ago

i would love to follow a thread that covers your repairs at modern pinball.
like the pinball ninja page.

i have found that all problems are more of less easy to fix, but figuring out the problem can be extremely time consuming. especially on location.

thanks for sharing.

m.

#23 5 years ago

When Transistors fail on stern boards I always replace the pre driver IC as well as the mosfets. started seeing as of late these pre driver chips failing in as they would pulse the mosfet too hard causing failure.

#24 5 years ago

Thanks for sharing Eddie. Very interesting. For the coils that "fell apart" wondering if they were old or both replacement parts? Wondering if replacement parts in general fail quicker than originals.

#25 5 years ago
Quoted from JoeJet:

Thanks for sharing Eddie. Very interesting. For the coils that "fell apart" wondering if they were old or both replacement parts? Wondering if replacement parts in general fail quicker than originals.

AF Replacement coil 10 months old

Stern ST Original coil 6 months old

#26 5 years ago

1) So sorry to hear about the Bonsai ball lift - that was such an ordeal when you first set it up!
2) Love this thread, thanks for doing it.

#27 5 years ago
Quoted from btw75:

1) So sorry to hear about the Bonsai ball lift - that was such an ordeal when you first set it up!
.

Thanks and now the ordeal begins again as they misplaced/Lost the Pat Lawlor made part. Guess Ill be starting a new post on the debacle.

#28 5 years ago
Quoted from Eddie:

Most common stern failures are
Flipper transistor failure is very common as well.

Quoted from CactusJack:

It has been my experience that the only time a Flipper MOSFET usually fails is due to a broken lead on the diode mounted to the coil.

Nope. it's a known and chronic problem on Stern games. Both flipper transistors blew on my NIB LOTR LE within 5-6 months of home use. And TWO friends also blew them in about the same time. All with perfectly-connected diodes. Hold the flipper up a bit too long, and blown fuse and fried transistor. Happens on many other games too.

The solution is to replace it with an IRL540. The transistors Stern uses for the flippers are under-specced for the purpose. I have *never* heard of an IRL540 ailing in this application.

#29 5 years ago

7/10

An amazing pinball night as the only failure was???

ACDC LE Lightning Bolt came off of its mount. Screw backed out.
WW One Led failed and its socket mounting hole in the playfield was stripped.

Tons of play as there was a private party along with walk in customers.

-7
#30 5 years ago

Eddie: Could you please post all the repairs you've done on WOZ this week, even if you haven't actually done any? Just make some up. You're really upsetting the anti-WOZ bozos on this thread:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/wozs-always-out-of-order-on-location

#31 5 years ago
Quoted from Eddie:

Kiss Spinner switch failed

Left spinner? I swear to you that sucker wasn't working a couple weeks ago and then, of course, when you tried to reproduce the problem it magically started working again.

#32 5 years ago

those lightning bolts came off on an ACDC at the SFGE ... seems to be common

#33 5 years ago

Was at Modern couple of weeks ago, got to put this on WOZ while I was there.

unnamed.jpg

The machines there were kept in remarkably good shape, as good or better than games I get to play at shows. I was very impressed with the games and the place overall. WoZ was the exception, it was in rough rough shape and the features that need tuning (throne room kickout and ramp release) were out of adjustment. Surprising to see the game worn down to that point but I was told they weren't the first owners of it anyway.

Highly recommend visiting Modern Pinball if you get a chance, had a great time.

#34 5 years ago

wish my machines got played enough to break this much

Just curious, does each game get a full teardown and rebuild of everything prior to going on location? How often/ many plays after that before you tear it down again?

#35 5 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

wish my machines got played enough to break this much
Just curious, does each game get a full teardown and rebuild of everything prior to going on location? How often/ many plays after that before you tear it down again?

That's actually something I was wondering too. Every time I'm in Modern it's always crowded, so these machines have got to be getting the snot played out of them. But I haven't ever seen a machine pulled off the line for any long period that I've noticed.

#36 5 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

wish my machines got played enough to break this much
Just curious, does each game get a full teardown and rebuild of everything prior to going on location? How often/ many plays after that before you tear it down again?

Before Modern opened I completely restored extremely trashed location machines.

In the first week they were beaten to the point where they are now.

Many find them to be well above average but compared to what they were leaving my shop No Way.

MB,TOM,Wh20,TSPP,BR,BTDK,TZ,AF

The rest of the machines were set up by the machines owners' tech staff before arrival to modern.

The system I use to keep them going is very simple.

Anytime a repair is needed or typical cleaning I go over everything on both sides of the playfield and check and tighten EVERY fastener and clean the flipper and other assemblies before I put the glass back on.

All machine fasteners must be checked as much as possible especial pop brackets and ball guides.

So if I go in to change a bulb its the same process and in doing so the subways remain clean and you also catch any possible failure before it happens.

So a bulb change may take 30+mins

#37 5 years ago
Quoted from beelzeboob:

Eddie: Could you please post all the repairs you've done on WOZ this week, even if you haven't actually done any? Just make some up. You're really upsetting the anti-WOZ bozos on this thread:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/wozs-always-out-of-order-on-location

Here's an idea. How about refraining from calling others names? I mean, it's against Pinsiders rules and all.

Quoted from generica:

The machines there were kept in remarkably good shape, as good or better than games I get to play at shows. I was very impressed with the games and the place overall. WoZ was the exception, it was in rough rough shape and the features that need tuning (throne room kickout and ramp release) were out of adjustment. Surprising to see the game worn down to that point but I was told they weren't the first owners of it anyway.
Highly recommend visiting Modern Pinball if you get a chance, had a great time.

unnamed.jpg 109 KB

My exact experience as well.

-4
#38 5 years ago

Wow. Somebody's sensitive. Being called a bozo really isn't a big deal. Did you think I was talking to you? It was a blanket statement...relax. And this after I defended you on another thread...

#39 5 years ago
Quoted from beelzeboob:

Wow. Somebody's sensitive. Being called a bozo really isn't a big deal. Did you think I was talking to you? It was a blanket statement...relax. And this after I defended you on another thread...

You wonder where all the vitriol comes from yet sling it yourself. That was my point. I try very hard not to name call on these boards. What good do you see coming from calling people bozo's?

As for sticking up for me? Umm, thanks? I guess? That's a really odd statement. I would assume you were sticking up for what you believed in/thought was right, not for a specific person. Either way, I'm sure your a good person but personal attacks stick the joint up.

#40 5 years ago
Quoted from StevenP:

Nope. it's a known and chronic problem on Stern games. Both flipper transistors blew on my NIB LOTR LE within 5-6 months of home use. And TWO friends also blew them in about the same time. All with perfectly-connected diodes. Hold the flipper up a bit too long, and blown fuse and fried transistor. Happens on many other games too.
The solution is to replace it with an IRL540. The transistors Stern uses for the flippers are under-specced for the purpose. I have *never* heard of an IRL540 ailing in this application.

Agree 100%. Replace ALL transistors that drive flipper coils with IRL540 transistors. This is a VERY common problem on TSPP, LOTR, and Spiderman.

I also find it very hard to think the games caused your coil bobbins to just fall apart. Sounds more like a manufacturing defect to me. I have NEVER seen a coil just fall apart like you described and I have repaired a LOT of machines.

I would also like to mention that rebuilding Stern games using B/W flipper parts, makes the assemblies last a LOT longer, makes the strength for shots stronger, and they do run cooler over a long game or constant tournament play. Those parts are essentially the same cost and maybe you should consider using them on the Sterns that see constant play like you describe.

I put new B/W flipper parts on my Tron and will never go back.

#41 5 years ago
Quoted from Skins:

You wonder where all the vitriol comes from yet sling it yourself. That was my point. I try very hard not to name call on these boards. What good do you see coming from calling people bozo's?
As for sticking up for me? Umm, thanks? I guess? That's a really odd statement. I would assume you were sticking up for what you believed in/thought was right, not for a specific person. Either way, I'm sure your a good person but personal attacks stick the joint up.

I call first and second graders I teach bozos when they're acting up. It's about as non-threatening a term as you can call somebody, and something you would kiddingly call someone you love (like your kids) when you're addressing them. I would hardly call it vitriol. Sorry I offended you.

EDIT: And I was sticking up for you because you were derided for your comment about ST. I think it's a good game, just not for me...but I thought you were entitled to your opinion without being belittled or made to sound like you're an idiot for feeling that way.

#42 5 years ago
Quoted from Eddie:

So a bulb change may take 30+mins

Such is my life. Have you had a run on flipper pawls coming loose from their linkages? I feel like that was all I did for about 2 weeks. I've made it a policy to use a little Loctite on the lock nut BEFORE installing it in the machine because it's a sumbitch to put it back together while it's in the game. I don't know if it was a particular manufacturing run or what, but just about every game at Logan Arcade that has had its flipper rebuilt had this problem.

-1
#43 5 years ago

Well thanks either way. As you could see by my reply to that person, I'm more than capable of defending myself and opinions.

At the end of the day, calling people bozo's IMO is counterproductive.

14
#44 5 years ago

It's bozos. Not bozo's.

End apostrophe abuse now!!!!

#45 5 years ago
Quoted from beelzeboob:

Eddie: Could you please post all the repairs you've done on WOZ this week, even if you haven't actually done any? Just make some up. You're really upsetting the anti-WOZ bozos on this thread:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/wozs-always-out-of-order-on-location

Why drag that into THIS thread though?
I like this thread.

You're post screams, "oh crap, there's no WOZ bashing for me to complain about, let me try to incite some, then I can go back to complaining about WOZ bashing!"

I'm not biting. From this thread, it sounds to me like WOZ is holding up as well as it's peers. This is an informative thread, let's keep it that way- plenty of other WOZ-centric threads to haunt....

#46 5 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

Why drag that into THIS thread though?
I like this thread.
You're post screams, "oh crap, there's no WOZ bashing for me to complain about, let me try to incite some, then I can go back to complaining about WOZ bashing!"
I'm not biting. From this thread, it sounds to me like WOZ is holding up as well as it's peers. This is an informative thread, let's keep it that way- plenty of other WOZ-centric threads to haunt....

Precisely. It was a joke that was supposed to make fun of the fact that everybody looks for a reason to WOZ-bash in every thread. I completely agree with you.

#47 5 years ago

7/15

Another unusually smooth night.

DM Left flipper return Spring. Ball trough Opto#2

SS Outlane Switch

Still waiting for new ACDC Canon assembly

Still waiting for MB Gear cluster.

BR repair put on hold due to League finals.

#48 5 years ago

7/16

DM ball trough... divots

WCS Flipper link

BR LED 555 socket backed out

#49 5 years ago

Very cool thread. I like this idea both for route ops and home users. Will also give you an idea of what parts to keep on hand for your "keeper" titles.

Thanks for taking time to log these on here as well as for your own records.

#50 5 years ago

Hey Eddie, what's your record for most credit dots removed in one day?

Between playing and fixing, I had one hell of a week a while back. Cleared 3 credit dots in one day and like 7 or 8 for the week. Clearing credit dots can make a guy feel like a real pinball badass. I AM THE CREDIT DOT KILLER!!! d

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