Hi SevenHorses
The term "On Add 1st. Tens" is for a "Normally-Closed Switch" mounted on the 10-point-Score-Drum of Player-1, this switch is IN the so-called "Self-Hold-CIRCUITRY of N-Relay. When the N-10-Point-Relay gets activated through a "switch closing on the playfield": N-Relay pulls-in and closes a switch that let current flow to "Coil on - lets say - 10-point- Score-Drum of first player" - the plunger on the Score-Drum is pulled-in - a tooth on the plunger hooks-in behind a tooth on the Score-Drum - the Score-Drum is ready to make 10 points.

Well, the "Self-Hold-Circuitry" - the N-Relay gets current and pulls - the armature moves - among other switches the "Self-Hold-Switch mounted on N-Relay - see the JPG, encircled pink/rosa" closes - through the "my red line" the "Coil on N-Relay" is feeded current forever ---
no, not forever - when the plunger on the Score-Drum has travelled its loooooong way: A tooth on the plunger OPENS the "On Add 1st. Tens" Switch. This cuts the Self-Hold-Circuitry of N-Relay - N-Relay let go and so moves its switches - among others it opens "Switch feeding Score-Drum-Coil" --- the Score-Drum-Coil let go - the plunger is pulled back - the Drum is stepped, 10 points are given.

This compex stuff was invented because - lets say - it needs 0.5 second for the plunger on the Score-Drum to travel its loooooong way (and then hook its tooth behind the tooth on the Drum and be ready to give the points).
IF (if) the N-Relay would only pull (stay pulling) as long (in time) as the playfield-switch is closed by the ball: Grace-Shots (ball closes the playfield-switch ONLY for 0.3 second): THESE 10 points would not be given on the Score-Drum because the plunger would be pulled backwards BEFORE the "tooth on plunger" has hooked-in behind "tooth on Score-Drum".
So the manufacturers invented the "Self-Hold-Circuitry on N-Relay".

SevenHorses, from Your description I believe to read: The Self-Hold stuff WORKS.
I suggest: My Surf Champ has wire-color-SL-WH-RED on N-Relay, Slate-White-Red. Look-up in YOUR schematics for appropriate wire-color - see this wire-color on bottom-Switch on YOUR N-Relay (?) follow this wire to a Jones-Plug and look at the Jones plug (all good ?).

IF (if) the "Spinner on Your pin" GIVES 10 points: You could try to set a permanent Jumper (see my "dark-blue" line). Greetings Rolf

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Hi SevenHorses
great You found the problem. Its a pity that the Jones-Plugs are NOT shown in the schematics. Do not call me "sir" - my reward is "one of my loved pins (Surfer is +/- Surf Champ) runs again". When I see "a Newbie wants to learn": Great, I help in "understanding".

So we come to http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=2459&picno=34778 - on the sides left and right are http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=2459&picno=34785 , http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=2459&picno=34786 worth 10 points.

A common problem (AAA) is "a playfield switch is stucked - the owner has mounted new rubbers and accidentally BENT a blade --- faulty always closed". A rare problem (BBB) is "the Self-Hold-Switch on the N-Relay is faulty - one blade is bent - switch is closed EVEN WHEN the relay is NOT pulling".
You can simulate AAA and BBB - no harm doing it 30 seconds to 1 to 2 minutes (no longer in time as the coil starts getting over-heated).

You simulate AAA by manually pressing against the rubber closing the playfield switch - See the Score-Drum vibrate - hear the drum humming ? The points are not given until You take away Your finger and so the switch opens.
You simulate BBB by holding (carefully) the tip of a screwdriver onto the two blades of "Self-Hold-Switch on N-Relay, post-2, JPG, marked pink/rosa". SAME reaction as AAA.

AAA is common - BBB is rare. An owner (actually having BBB) can look for hours at the playfield switches - searching for AAA. He does not find a stuck playfield switch --- as he actually has BBB.
So when a Score-Drum does stick: I advice: UNPLUG the Jones-Plug(s) connecting the playfield with the Backbox to find-out about AAA or BBB (((when the problem disappears: Yes, it is AAA))).

In post-2 I wrote about "0.3 second, grace shots", ("0.5 second, (bulls-eye, full impact shots)" - grace shots not beeing rewarded by points. You can check this phenomena --- sneak-in a stripe of paper into the "Self-Hold-Switch on N-Relay", the switch mechanically "closes" but the stripe of paper hinders contact. From one side of the coil a short wire runs to "bottom-switch mounted on the relay" - the Self-Hold-Switch. Sneak-in a stripe of paper PERMANENT.

Start a game - with a finger You simulate "bulls-eye shots" and also simulate "grace shots" - JUST tipping slightly (SHORT period of time): NO TEN points given.

The action "giving 10 points" is a beautyful example of working hand in hand (N-Relay and Score-Drum) - a beautiful example of timing (N-Relay feeds the Score-Drum, and then Score-Drum beeing ready: CUTS "feeding N-Relay Self-Hold-Circuitry" --- a beautyful example for "reading schematics - thinking into the drawing the factor TIME --- this and then this-other, then that". Greetings Rolf

P.S.: May want to mark topic as "solved" - I like to see these signs.

Hi SevenHorses
an add-on to post-6. We may have CCC (not as common as AAA, probably not as rare as BBB). CCC is: The "On Add 1st. Tens" Switch is NOT opened by the travelling plunger on the Score-Drum.

It depends on the "quality of description by the owner". If the owner simply writes "Score-Drum sticks": It may be AAA or BBB or CCC.
If the owner writes "when toggling-on the pin, when starting and resetting: Score-Drum does NOT sticks --- but when I make the first time 10 points: Score-Drum stucks forever": I then would write "You have CCC".

You can simulate the CCC-fault: Locate this switch on the Score-Drum of player-1 (it often is called an E.O.S.-Switch (End of Stroke) ) --- with a Jumper-Wire You make an permanent connection inbetween the two switchblades (solder-lugs). Then start a game - all is good - then make 10 points: Phenomena CCC shows up. Greetings Rolf

Simpler answer- Its the EOS (end of stroke) switch that is ON the point value reel in the schematic. If its add 1st tens, Its the EOS switch on the first player ten reel.

Added over 7 years ago: The reason it is listed this way on the schematic is because the score reel coils are listed as "other coils used" and not tied to any relay.

Hi SevenHorses
another post to come about "permanent Jumper / Spinner" - here "general words to spinner".

I am not a fan of "pictures of relays, units etc. in a pin" shown in pinside - the ONLY thing I usually can recognize: "Yes, there is some stuff" ...

When we want to adjust "Spinners / Vari-Targets / (even) Flipper-Bats": We actually should do the adjusting having the playfield DOWN in position "ready to play". If we do the adjustment with the playfield lifted: The adjustment we do is perfect - for "playfield lifted" --- we then take down the playfield - and the adjustment is "not so good". We actually should take the playfield out and have it hanging in proper position - hanging on the ceiling so we can sit below the playfield - THEN do the adjustment.

The first JPG shows "F" - the axis of the spinner must be straight and neatly fit into the holding. "G" - the wood around the hole in the playfield shall never be touched by the wire going straight down through the hole. "H" - You must have a metal mini-post to keep the ball away from the delicate stuff. "I" - the wire going down shall be straight , not bent, not twisted. "J" - The white posts must be of right size so when the ball rolls through / under the spinner: easy going. "K" - not of interest.

The second picture I have taken with "Playfield lifted" --- then turned around in "paint.net" to have the playfield horizontal. "A" - You must have a weight. "B" - not needed - it is thick metal - a stop for the movement --- in my pin it is useless. "C" - is the moved blade. "D" - is the stationary blade to be hit (by "C") to close contact. "E" - the wire going free upwards through the hole in the playfield.

You must adjust "C" and "D" so they just close when the "E" is lifted "maximum-upwards".
When "E" is "bottom-most down": "C" shall not touch "A" - or maybe slightly touch. IF (if) "C" has tension (in the picture: downwards) - pressing down: Spinner is not easy-going.

Tip for adjusting - You most likely have the playfield lifted: From time to time or ALWAYS: With a finger of (left) hand MOVE the Spinner to an (close to) 90 degree angle with the playfield - by this You imitate "playfield is down". Greetings Rolf

P.S.: It took me an hour to adjust my spinner to (near) perfect.

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Hi SevenHorses
thanks for "mark topic as solved" (I happen to like to see these marks).

Here about "JPG in post-2, Jumper ???". I wrote that post - then thought "not so good" - wanted to "edit the post-2" then decided to let it "as written".

Lets first look at (here) JPG-1 - I have numbered the playfield switches. The "violet X" show "HERE a wire has broken off".
IF (if) the wire has broken at Jones-Plug "A" (and only at "A" there is breakage): 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 do not give points.
IF (if) the wire has broken at "E" (and only at "E" there is breakage): 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 do not give points.
IF (if) the wire has broken at "B" (and only at "B" there is breakage): 1 does not give points, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 do give points.
IF (if) the wire has broken at "C" (and only at "C" there is breakage): 1, 2, 3 do not give points, 4, 5, 6 do give points.
IF (if) the wire has broken at "D" (and only at "D" there is breakage): 5, 6 do not give points, 1, 2, 3, 4, do give points.

IF (if) the pin "is / would be" wired inside the pin as shown in the schematics: "7" would give points (through 'F')- regardless of (eventual) breakage "A B C D". I DOUBT that the wiring in the pin is made as shown in the schematics. (((Schematics are "drawn abstract, drawn neat and beautyful" --- we see the SAME wire-color (SL-WH-RED) --- I DOUBT that Gottlieb made the connection "through 'F' " (why should they mount an EXTRA Jones Plug) - I say in reality in the pin the wiring is "maybe 'G', maybe 'H', maybe 'I'.

Do You see / agree on - IF (if) the wiring is "not 'F' - it is 'H' " and the breakage is "either 'C' or 'D' ": The "7" DOES give points.
The 3-bladed Make-and-Brake-Switch "6B***, my violet 'J***' " is mounted in the Sequence Bank and the Sequence Bank is mounted on the underneathside of the playfield --- I bet "we do not have 'wiring F' - we have either 'wiring G' or 'wiring H' or 'wiring I' ".

6B***, J***: Gottlieb give VALUABLE information to the relays in "List of relays": When read "3A 1C" or we (would) read: "Relay-XY 4A, 1B, 2C" - we can take out the information: Relay-XY has mounted several switches - 4 of type-A means "4 Normally-Open-Switches", 1 of type-B means " 1 Normally-Closed-Switch(es), 2 of type-C means "two 3-bladed-Make-and-Break-Switches".

Back to "post-2, JPG, dark-blue line, dark-blue 'Jumper ???' ": Depending on "how in reality in the pin the light-green wiring actually is": The Jumper would not work or one or more or all playfield switches would behave as the "Spinner-Switch" --- You play good and You are rewarded with "Spinner NOW gives HUNDERD POINTS": The other playfield switches would also give 100 points ...

(((When You make ALL five Rollover Buttons below the spinner: "post-10, second JPG, 'dark-green K' lights up and informs You": Spinner NOW give HUNDRED points)))
Greetings Rolf

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Hi SevenHorses
Yes and No - You could do this hack - but we come to "why I wanted to edit post-2". IF (if) You wold do the "blue jumper in post-2" AND IF (if) the pin is good - it does run 100% WITHOUT the jumper:
By establishing the "blue jumper" You would have
"Spinner is NOT lighted" - spinner gives ten points and all "simpe targets, slingshots" give ten points.
"Spinner IS lighted" - spinner gives hundred points --- ALL "simple targets, slingshots" give 110 (!) points - because "through dark-green connection" (functioning) they give ten points, "through jumper functioning they give hundred points" - and do we want that strange behavior of giving 110 points ?

When I bought my Surf Champ I was frustrated by the fact - I play and play and many times: I loose a ball and I may have made only 2,3,4 bonus (((on most of my pins I am used to: I make 10 to 15 bonus))). It was the time when I made some "hacks / mods". Look at my Far Out: http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=823&picno=52839 when targets / rollover / lanes are lit: I get points AND a bonus. I like my Far Out.

I said: I make a simple "mod" --- I help me to make MORE bonus per ball, see the JPG (I have taken from ipdb) - "yellow X" give 500 points PLUS one bonus, I did the "mod": "encircled yellow" also gives 500 points PLUS one bonus.
I was tempted to do - but didnt do it (((more and more I come to say: Lets play the pin "original"))) - the "EXTRA-BALL-feature on the left is welcome" - change (?) the feature on the right to ALSO give an EXTRABALL (instead of Special) (?).

The JPG here shows: IF (if) You'd want to have the "Slingshot-Kickers, Kicking Rubber Switches" act synchronous with "spinner" - the "mod" --- I strongly advice: Do NOT make this mod - OR (when doing the mod) You MUST do a VERY good documentation of the mod (think of an ladder owner cursing You), greetings Rolf

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