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(Topic ID: 176696)

What docs exist for a 1969 Bally Joust?


By Brian_G

3 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 30 posts
  • 9 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by rolf_martin_062
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 3 years ago

What paperwork exists for a Bally Joust? I have seen paper copies of the schematics (a single sheet larger than the playfield itself), a 3-ball score card, and a 3-ball pricing card. Are there PDF versions out there of any other manuals or paperwork?

1 month later
#2 3 years ago

I just brought home a Joust and looking for a PDF scan of schematics

the table I brought home has a, 5 ball pricing card "1 play 10 cents , 3 plays 25 cents" and a "1 or 2 can play" instruction card and 3 score cards to fill the window.

my camera just crapped out or I'd snap a quick pic

I have a flatbed scanner not fully sure if I can get 'em to a *.PDF file

I will probably call Steve Young @ PBResource

#3 3 years ago

That vintage of a Bally machine would have had a 9" x 12" manilla envelope containing these items:

A folded up schematic (unfolds to about 36" long).

Several score/instruction cards.

Several pricing/balls per game cards.

Approximately 9 pages of text stapled together to form a "game manual".

Steve Young's Pinball Resource should sell all of those items.

#4 3 years ago

might be able to help if you don,t find what you are looking for PM me i know people who own the game, maybe they have the papers...

#5 3 years ago

I would be interested in seeing the 9-page "game manual" if it still exists. If found the "Introduction to Bally Flipper Games" which was a good primer for analyzing and repairing the parts of a machine in that era.

I also stumbled upon a one pager that details how to lift out the mounting board and raise all the electronics inside the bottom of the cabinet to playfield height. I had seen someone do that on YouTube and was amazed that it raises everything so cleverly. That was really cool.

#6 3 years ago

ohhhhhhhhh link to video ? , now I know I could prolly figger it out I noticed some sort of lifting mechanism under the bottom board

I wonder if it's the same generic manual listed at IPDB for The Wiggler

I can scan score cards I have & any tips would be helpful

#7 3 years ago

I scanned these to *.jpg and did convert these to *.pdf online

I can only seem to upload images for a post , so here's what I used

Bally Joust 1969 coin card 5 ball (resized).jpg
Bally Joust 1969 instruction card with score (resized).jpg

ok back to cleaning my totalizers

#8 3 years ago

I find this quite clever.

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1 week later
#9 3 years ago
Quoted from Brian_G:

I find this quite clever.

wow that saves on the back for sure !!!!

my game won't stay started in service position. It says only to reconnect the "front door plug" while in service position as the other connector won't reach -BUT- there is another slam switch by right front leg. I think may be called the "coin bounce" that's on the "flipper plug"

an extension cable would be nice for that connector but I can jump that with alligator clips.

#10 3 years ago

It's been some time since I had to have the board out and all powered up, but I seem to remember that I fed the cables out of the coin door to get them plugged in. I am not sure that I had to have all the cables in place. Good luck and remember to be careful as you "drop" the board back into place. I discovered several times that I had a bundle of cords stuck around the power supply or under the edge of the mounting board.

#11 3 years ago

I have some special technical bulletin notes for this game, both from operators, technicians, and the Bally when the game was produced.
They are not listed in any available pdf document above the extracted manuals, schematics, price cards, and instructions.
Some were actually hand written from 1970.

Just let me know if you would like a scan of these special documents, as there are not an extensive number of owners that have the game as part of their Ted Zale 'zipper flipper' collections.

NOTE: There are several different versions of the wire harness of this game. The sample/prototypes included additional connectors that were designed original to have more than two players for the score reels.

#12 3 years ago

I was able to get the schematic , score motor chart , 9 page "manual" and I think the hand written note and zipper flipper detail you were talking about from PbR

I just discovered I got 4 blown solenoids under the camshaft

perhaps this aught to be the "Joust club" thread

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#13 3 years ago

Just today I was working on our Op Pop Pop (also a zipper flipper game, by the way) and pulled the bottom board out to the "service" position several times. Why can't they ALL have that feature!

#14 3 years ago

w00t got 'er goin ,

to test mine in service mode, I had to simulate the what I think is the coin bounce switch with an alligator clip jumper

I am considering putting a bell on the match stepper like my The Wiggler has ... was thinking a cowbell

#15 3 years ago
Quoted from MrArt2u:

Just today I was working on our Op Pop Pop (also a zipper flipper game, by the way) and pulled the bottom board out to the "service" position several times. Why can't they ALL have that feature!

Simply because pinball manufacturers are going backwards in terms of construction and quality.

This feature was the precursor father to the sliding rail playfield system used in late model BLY/WMS games for ease of maintenance and repair, before this was removed as well. The Pin2000 system used a different swing design, but it still existed in a different manner. Stern eliminated this concept entirely upon return to construction, and eventually removed service rails on games as well.

New owners and operators cannot argue against removing things from games they did not know existed. It a trademark of the lack of pinball innovation, and an example of the state of the industry.

"Owners will never notice."
They are correct in many cases.

If people look closely, many things have reversed direction, all to decrease production costs and increase profit margins. Even the wire is cheap. If owners want to see innovation in terms of game features, they need to look to the past, just like in other industries.

In another 100 years, many EMs will still be running after passing 150 years old, when many solid state games are in dumpsters, except for a handful of collectible titles. Most EMs already have survived the hardest of times when SS took over when it was reported they were "more reliable", which is only true from the standpoint of the first 3-5 years for operators who wanted to minimize techicians. People should realize in the old days attendants WERE technicians, not just emptying coin boxes. Where are those early SS games now?

Surprisingly, over 30% of all EM Jousts are still around even after 48 years, not a bad run, considering it is higher than many early SS.

2 weeks later
#16 3 years ago

What docs exist for a 1969 Bally Joust? Good topic.

I just recently got this game and can't find anything on it. I just wrote to the Pinball Resource asking for a schematic and manual.

My game was all in pieces when I got it and I manage to put it all back together. Doesn't work properly... From what I read online at pinrepair.com is to clean and adjust all contacts first.

Haha guess I'm a little inpatient to get the game up and running. It's just good to know there are other Joust owner out there

#17 3 years ago

it's a surprisingly fun table IMO , I got my stuff from PbR as well

I still have a couple things to tinker with, tilt doesn't reset and match doesn't work yet

if you need part #'s here's a good resource: http://www.planetarypinball.com/reference/partsmanuals/BLY_Parts_1973/index.html

the rubbers for the mushroom bumpers are 7/16" rings (bally part #'s don't match anything for those http://www.planetarypinball.com/reference/partsmanuals/BLY_Parts_1973/index.html

3 months later
#18 3 years ago

adjustment plug card stapled to side of cabinet

anyone have a high score adjustment chart on backbox cover ?

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#19 3 years ago

Is this what you are really looking for?

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#20 3 years ago

that's where I got the idea it would be on the backbox cover ...

this is one I found for The Wiggler over at http://www.pinballrebel.com/pinball/cards/

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#21 3 years ago

I have no instructions in the backbox telling you how the plugs work. I have included pictures of all of my labels attached to the backbox itself. I have also included a photo of how my plugs are currently connected.

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2 weeks later
#22 3 years ago

I'm working on the reproduction file for Joust.
Is someone willing to test the size and positioning of the text for me?

What is the size for the Lubrication card?

#23 3 years ago

Yes, let me know how I can help.

#24 3 years ago
Quoted from Brian_G:

Yes, let me know how I can help.

I've created a reproduction file which also holds the relay strips.
These need to be checked for size and the word spacing ect...
I also need to know the card size for the Serviceman card and the Lubrication card.
If you send me your email, I'll send you a copy of the file for testing.

4 months later
#25 2 years ago

it's the WORST when you ONLY need to spot the FIVE and the ball drains

*bump* for a high score matrix diagram

#26 2 years ago

Hi chas10e
I do not understand Your (post-25)"... score matrix diagram". In post-20 You show nice diagrams (the Wiggler). BrianG (post-21, fifth JPG) shows the wiring in his pin. I have taken BrianG's JPG and added some information --- on the right You see the (suggested) wiring for Bally-Hoo. A wire-red runs from socket "10 on the 'hundreds Adj-Socket' " to "2 on the 'thousands Adj-Sockets' " --- ten times hundred plus 2000 equals 3000 --- a Replay is given at 3000 points. Wire-white runs from "8 times hundred" to "4 times thousands - a Replay is given at 4800 points --- and so on.

Funny - there are wires with two plugs on one side of the wire --- see JPG bottom-right: Wire-white I draw is as blue line gives at "3 thousand plus 4 hundred" is 3400 --- and gives at "3 thousand plus 10 times hundred" is 4000. Greetings Rolf

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#27 2 years ago

ok I see how it works now , the scores go higher on Joust than The Wiggler & Bally Hoo so the left jones rail is the 1,000's & the right is 10,000's

the 40,000 jones plug on mine had long since snapped off so I guess I'll be looking for a solution to fix that.

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#28 2 years ago

Hi chas10e
I wonder if You know the answers to the following three questions (see the JPG)
- encircled red - why is position-5 on the 1000s-Score-Drums connected to the Adj-Socket-6 on the 1000s Adj-plug (etc.) ?
- encircled rosa / pink - why is position-5 on the 10'000s-Score-Drums connected to the Adj-Socket-5 on the 10'000s Adj-plug (etc.) ?
- encircled yellow - why do we always read on the range stuff like 61'000 to 70'000 points (or 21'000 to 30'000 etc.) ?

There is one answer to these questions: This "way / logic" is much simpler for the manufacturers to implement in the pins.

We human beeings say at what time "this 1000 points are given" ??? And electrically (brain of the pin) at what time "this 1000 points are given" ??? There is an offset - we humans say it when we see the Score-Drum step / turn. At this moment "electrically speaken": Its all over.
The ball hits a target - a switch closes - the 1000-point-relay pulls-in - stays pulling - through an switch closed on the pulling 1000-point-relay the coil on the Score-Drum gets current - pulls - plunger on the drum travels - at end of travel a tooth on the plunger hooks-in behind a tooth on the score-drum - ALSO a tooth on the plunger opens the E.O.S.-Switch - the circuitry of the 1000-points-relay is cut - the relay let go - does no longer let current flow to the coil on the drum - the coil on the drum let go and the retaining spring pulls back the plunger - tooth on tooth - the traveling back plunger makes the drum to do a step - now we humans see the giving of the points on the drum --- electrically given are the points earlyer - when the 1000-points-relay gets current and pulls -
on the example in the JPG (a replay shall be given at 56'000 points): "Encircled blue - a switch on the '1000-points-relay pulling-in' closes" when the Score-Drum still is in position "5" - the replay can be given and the turning on the Score-Drum comes later. All the time the stuff happens: The 10'000s Score-Drum does not move***.
"does not move***" - at 59'000 to 60'000 the 10'000s score-drum also does a step --- ALSO AFTER electrically stuff has happened. Greetings Rolf

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#29 2 years ago

it seems the 1,000 adjustment plug is connected to the next lower digit while the 10,000 adjustment plug is connected to the same digit

I added a wider shot of the schematic:

your green line shows a closed circuit at 55,000 points, when the 1,000 point relay closes, advancing the score to the desired 56,000 it further completes the circuit. ( the high score feature plug determines how it's awarded )

I am not fully sure why the schematic says "11,000+" I speculate saying you want an award at say 40,000 you would have a jumper between the 31,000+ & the 10,000

My head hurts thinking about this stuff, but good exercise your pictorial references do greatly help.

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#30 2 years ago

Hi chas10e
Bally pins - two sockets - one for the thousands and the other one for the 10'000s --- if we have no wire between these two sockets: NO Replay ever will be given. We take one wire with one plug on one end and one plug on the other end. We plug-in one side of the wire on the thousands - and we plug-in the other side of the wire at the 10'000s --- and we will get a replay when reaching a certain limit.
We may take a second such connecting wire - maybe a third such wire - and we get replays on 2 or on 3 certain limits. It is simple to find out - make a connection and manipulate-play and find-out.

So I "rather am doing" some EM-Talk --- maybe nice, interesting - but not really needed. I show the difference Bally to Williams, see the JPG: Williams does not have sockets for the 10'000s --- Williams has a bundle of nine wires (see my red stuff) --- wires when we do not want to use: We can store them away - secure. Many holes are drilled (lined up) into the wood - no electrical connection - simply holes in the wood so we can store-away un-used circa-10'000s (range) wires - see my red arrows. So we plug-in the wanted wire(s) - (range in the tousands) - color defines range and the socket we plug-in is the actual thousands. See bottom of JPG "Yellow Wire ...". It is almost the same in Bally and in Williams pins just "socket" or "wires" --- the logic in the range "11'000 to 20'000" / 21'000 to 30'000" is exactly the same.

Take out in reality or in Your imagination a 1000s-Score-Drum - turn it around so You see the plunger and can manually move the plunger - have the Drum set to position-five --- manually move the plunger - toss it into the coil - You simulate "current is flowing and the coil pulls" - while You move the plunger: What is the drum doing ? Well, nothing - it stays in position-five. When You have reached "end of travel of the plunger" - tooth behind tooth - You let go (You simulate "now current stops flowing") - NOW the retaining spring pulls the plunger back and tooth on tooth: The Drum turns, steps to position-six. But the pin tries to eventually give an replay - letting current flow towards the Replay-Unit - the pin tries when current is flowing - and current is flowing BEFORE the retaining spring pulls back the plunger / turns the drum. Greetings Rolf

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