(Topic ID: 81643)

what do you think of skill shot 'zine' going after skill shot pinball

By pinballgandalf

10 years ago


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    #1 10 years ago

    for those of you unfamiliar (myself included), how do you feel about the seattle based pinball zine "skill shot" persuing legal action against another company from the same area which has the same name but covers a different area of pinball alltogether (they do programming/repairs or something like that). while i understand the names are the exact same and are involved in the same industry, i do not find it fair that some rinkydink local 'zine' is trying to lay claim to the term skill shot. and instead of being reasonable and supportive of the pinball development in their region took it upon themselves to just start bashing the other company and threatening legal action on their facebook page.

    forget the legal aspect of the issue, i want your honest opinion on how this should be handled, and the quickest way to resolve it in a manner that is most beneficial to the pinball community.

    and for the record, i live far away from all this and am merely an observer, i have nothing to gain from either side of the issue. if you know someone personally involved, try to keep your relationship with them from factoring into your opinion.

    #2 10 years ago

    and in case you couldnt tell, im on the side of: skill shot zine should just let it go and let others get on with their business.

    #3 10 years ago

    Is the answer The Golden Rule?

    #4 10 years ago

    haha, right.
    hopefully we can all agree that shit like this just shouldnt exist.

    #5 10 years ago

    Whoever had it first should keep the name and the other one change it.

    #6 10 years ago
    Quoted from SealClubber:

    Whoever had it first should keep the name and the other one change it.

    Wouldn't that tie directly back to The Golden Rule? And I agree wholeheartedly...

    #7 10 years ago

    All of their cover art is just ripped copyrighted art....just saying.

    #8 10 years ago
    Quoted from TaylorVA:

    All of their cover art is just ripped copyrighted art....just saying.

    one of the first things i thought too. they havent created anything unique, and here they are pitching a fit about someone doing the same...

    #9 10 years ago

    If they do cover two completely different areas like you said,maybe they should just hook up and publish one kick ass mag!

    #10 10 years ago

    No sir...I don't like it.
    should I be worried too?

    #11 10 years ago

    It's going to be tough for them to defend the use of a generic term and trademark that they do not own and did not bother to register as a business name.

    I'm rooting for them though because if they can pull this off it'll help me defend my claim to the Star Wars name and international merchandizing rights.

    #12 10 years ago
    Quoted from ChrisVW:

    It's going to be tough for them to defend the use of a generic term and trademark that they do not own and did not bother to register as a business name.
    I'm rooting for them though because if they can pull this off it'll help me defend my claim to the Star Wars name and international merchandizing rights.

    haha zing

    #13 10 years ago

    When ugly situations arise, you've got to assume that some ugly stuff led up to it. Nonetheless, Golden Rule...

    #14 10 years ago
    Quoted from pinballgandalf:

    for those of you unfamiliar (myself included), how do you feel about the seattle based pinball zine "skill shot" persuing legal action against another company from the same area which has the same name but covers a different area of pinball alltogether (they do programming/repairs or something like that). while i understand the names are the exact same and are involved in the same industry, i do not find it fair that some rinkydink local 'zine' is trying to lay claim to the term skill shot. and instead of being reasonable and supportive of the pinball development in their region took it upon themselves to just start bashing the other company and threatening legal action on their facebook page.
    forget the legal aspect of the issue, i want your honest opinion on how this should be handled, and the quickest way to resolve it in a manner that is most beneficial to the pinball community.
    and for the record, i live far away from all this and am merely an observer, i have nothing to gain from either side of the issue. if you know someone personally involved, try to keep your relationship with them from factoring into your opinion.

    details? link to more info? it's hard to voice an opinion here without knowing most of the relevant facts. (that never stops most people, though!)

    #15 10 years ago
    Quoted from StevenP:

    details? link to more info? it's hard to voice an opinion here without knowing most of the relevant facts. (that never stops most people, though!)

    the only link i could give is to an overblown facebook thread which doesnt actually contain any facts of the matter. this is why i asked people to look at it from an objective standpoint rather than as a legal issue. basically without any back story, how do you feel about two pinball companies goin at eachother over the phrase "skill shot".

    #16 10 years ago
    Quoted from SKILL_SHOT:

    No sir...I don't like it.
    should I be worried too?

    Joke all you want.

    You're next

    #17 10 years ago

    I'd say next in line would be Skill Shot MKE https://www.facebook.com/SkillShotMke

    But then I found an article that says the Skill Shot people suggested that Michelle model it after theirs.

    http://onmilwaukee.com/buzz/articles/pinballtournaments.html?35275

    #18 10 years ago
    Quoted from Mr_Freshie:

    Wouldn't that tie directly back to The Golden Rule?

    He who has the gold makes the rules.

    #19 10 years ago

    Skill Shot is not just some "rinkydink zine." It's a beloved Seattle institution with deep ties to the local pinball scene and has contributed hugely to the resurgence of pinball in the area. It's a labor of love for everyone involved and as far as I know they either lose money on it or barely break even. It is totally volunteer-driven, all the way down to the folding of the zine at parties they hold whenever they put out a new issue. In addition to covering news and rumors from all aspects of the pinball scene both local and nationwide, the back of the zine is a giant fold-out list of every machine on location in the city, up-to-date and arranged by neighborhood and 21+/all-ages. Volunteers distribute around 2000 copies to all the local pinball venues and they are generally all snapped up quickly. I know they drop off something like 100 copies at the location where I op games, Full Tilt in Ballard, and the supply never meets the demand. All of the people involved are friends with everyone in the scene and are mainstays of tournaments, leagues, parties and other events around here. It's not uncommon to see many people wearing Skill Shot shirts at every local pinball gathering you go to. Many well known players have contributed articles to the zine or helped out with it in other ways.

    In addition to the zine itself, Skill Shot hosts the huge annual Shorty's tournament as well as monthly tournaments and other events. Even their folding parties are popular. Python Anghelo did a seminar at least year's NW Pinball Show and he lauded Skill Shot specifically and said it was one of the things that puts Seattle at the front of the recent pinball resurgence.

    As for the new Skill Shot Pinball Company, I am familiar with the guys who run it through the arcade scene, but I have never seen either of them at a single local pinball gathering, and I go to dozens (and run 50-some weekly tournaments) every year. One of them has posted almost exclusively about his "hyperpin" (a pinball MAME cab) on local forums for as long as I can remember. They are not really connected to what's going on in pinball around here, so maybe they were somehow unaware of the Skill Shot zine when they chose that name. I hope so.

    I don't know if threatening legal action is the right move, but I do think they should change their name just because it's the right thing to do. Continuing to use it will only make them look bad to the people who I assume they are trying to appeal to, the pinball scene that has been embraced for years (and arguably, to a degree, created) by Skill Shot zine.

    #20 10 years ago
    Quoted from bobbyconover:

    It's not uncommon to see many people wearing Skill Shot shirts at every local pinball gathering you go to.

    We need some of these for the MKE scene.

    #21 10 years ago
    Quoted from bobbyconover:

    Skill Shot is not just some "rinkydink zine." It's a beloved Seattle institution with deep ties to the local pinball scene and has contributed hugely to the resurgence of pinball in the area. It's a labor of love for everyone involved and as far as I know they either lose money on it or barely break even. It is totally volunteer-driven, all the way down to the folding of the zine at parties they hold whenever they put out a new issue. In addition to covering news and rumors from all aspects of the pinball scene both local and nationwide, the back of the zine is a giant fold-out list of every machine on location in the city, up-to-date and arranged by neighborhood and 21+/all-ages. Volunteers distribute around 2000 copies to all the local pinball venues and they are generally all snapped up quickly. I know they drop off something like 100 copies at the location where I op games, Full Tilt in Ballard, and the supply never meets the demand. All of the people involved are friends with everyone in the scene and are mainstays of tournaments, leagues, parties and other events around here. It's not uncommon to see many people wearing Skill Shot shirts at every local pinball gathering you go to. Many well known players have contributed articles to the zine or helped out with it in other ways.
    In addition to the zine itself, Skill Shot hosts the huge annual Shorty's tournament as well as monthly tournaments and other events. Even their folding parties are popular. Python Anghelo did a seminar at least year's NW Pinball Show and he lauded Skill Shot specifically and said it was one of the things that puts Seattle at the front of the recent pinball resurgence.
    As for the new Skill Shot Pinball Company, I am familiar with the guys who run it through the arcade scene, but I have never seen either of them at a single local pinball gathering, and I go to dozens (and run 50-some weekly tournaments) every year. One of them has posted almost exclusively about his "hyperpin" (a pinball MAME cab) on local forums for as long as I can remember. They are not really connected to what's going on in pinball around here, so maybe they were somehow unaware of the Skill Shot zine when they chose that name. I hope so.
    I don't know if threatening legal action is the right move, but I do think they should change their name just because it's the right thing to do. Continuing to use it will only make them look bad to the people who I assume they are trying to appeal to, the pinball scene that has been embraced for years (and arguably, to a degree, created) by Skill Shot zine.

    umm i was trying to leave the personal aspect of this alone. you took so long to basically say "look, i know these guys, i dont know these other guys, and most local pinheads will agree. therefore, were on the side of the zine" perfectly reasonable to feel that way, and everyone knows the zine is great and has a more established foothold in the community. but just because they wield more clout doesnt mean their actions are justified. especially considering how often they flat out steal others artwork for their covers.

    #22 10 years ago

    hipsters hate being copied

    #23 10 years ago

    If it is a legal business name the second person on the scene should change their name IMO.
    If it was never registered as a legal business then first person to file gets the name.

    I have no horse in this race. If the companies were in different business markets It would likely never matter.
    Since they are both in pinball in some way it is going to be a battle I am sure.

    1 month later
    #24 10 years ago

    I have to agree with Bobby. Skill Shot, the zine, is a Seattle pinball institution. The staff are the best, and it's a great publication. I have helped with folding and distribution. It's the zine of the Seattle pinball tribe. They had the name first, have worked hard to establish a brand, as it were. If the other Skill Shot didn't change their name, they would benefit from the work of the original Skill Shot. People seeing the t-shirts probably wouldn't distinguish between the two. Not fair for the second Skill Shot to ride on the good reputation of the zine. As for the legal action, that was only threatened after other negotiations failed. It's not like the original Skill Shot guys went up to the other Skill Shot's booth at the NWPAGS with a writ to cease and desist. They were surprised, and took steps to meet with the owners of the new company to try to talk to them about changing their name. How would you feel if the project you'd worked on for years had it's name used by a new company in the same community? For me, there's only one true Skill Shot in Seattle.

    #25 10 years ago

    I love the Skill Shot zine, I used to grab it everytime I was in Seattle when I lived in Portland and Olympia, and have met many of the awesome people that run, produce, fold and distribute it. Knowing that they turned to legal action AFTER the other company refused to change their name makes sense to me. Yes, "skill shot" is a generic pinball term, but if you had a company say, called, Plunger Lane that was well established and someone else started a company with the same name in the same city and then refused to change it, would you feel that your business had been threatened? The people that run the zine are not in it for the money at all, but it takes funds to print something of that magnitude and they probably felt that the livelihood of the publication would be compromised by the name of the other company. Just my two cents with the limited information that I know.

    #26 10 years ago

    I like all the people involved on both sides and have known both the zinesters and company owners for many many years. I think Bobby is right that they had no knowledge of the zine when they picked the name for their company. But I'll add there are a lot of people involved in collecting, playing and promoting pinball that don't play in pinball tournaments, the pinball tournament scene is only part of the greater pinball community. I never play pinball tournaments and most my friends don't, yet they are avid pinball players and collectors and involved in the NW Pinball and Arcade Show and doing classic arcades at PAX, Emerald City Comicon and other events to promote the hobby. The guys behind the company have been really involved in helping put on the NW Pinball and Arcade Show for years and promoting the hobby, their company is pretty rad and is manufacturing boards so you can design and build your own pinball machine, they are tabling at all the big pinball conventions, will be working with manufacturers and promise a lot of cool things to come, more info on this thread: http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/wpc-20tm-extensions-to-wpc-20-games-from-tpf-pps-seminar. And Skill Shot zine is rad and a great resource for locals in the Seattle area! This controversy is over though, the pinball company has changed it's name to Fast Pinball after becoming aware of the zine and a little Facebook drama.

    #27 10 years ago

    Excuse my use of the word rad twice in that post, at least I didn't say awesome six times like usual.

    2 weeks later
    #28 9 years ago

    Looking forward to the NW Pinball Show this year! Drama free!

    Aaron
    FAST Pinball

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