(Topic ID: 248309)

What do you think about LEs coming with More Code Adjustments?


By OLDPINGUY

7 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 27 posts
  • 15 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 months ago by northvibe
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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    Topic poll

    “Would you bump up from a Premium to an LE, if it had more user settings?”

    • Yes 7 votes
      26%
    • No 20 votes
      74%

    (27 votes)

    #1 7 months ago

    In focusing on Sterns New release, and seeing the Price/Value comparisons of Models, I see the accounting side come up again.

    After all, a Premium and LE are the Same game, other than extras in appearance.

    What if Stern sent out LEs, with more code, or more code adjustments?
    One could "do more" with their game in settings, than can be achieved on other models, or simply adding "hidden mode" not present
    in a Premium?

    As this isnt really a huge BOM increase, it gives something unique to owners in game play, sound control, rule/reward control over Premium and Pro.

    Would this make LEs something more desirable?

    #2 7 months ago

    Is Stern having trouble selling out of LE's?

    #3 7 months ago

    I don't know. I'm still mystified that even $6K doesn't get a fully featured game. JP2 looks amazing layout wise, but the static toy T-Rex is mind boggling seeing how JP1's is one of the best toys ever.

    If LE's want an extra mode, it should be something more like Midnight Madness, where it's not part of regular play and wouldn't affect tournament play. Then it's still a selling feature but completely not necessary for the competitive player.

    #4 7 months ago

    Not really, but could they sell more? Would collectors/pinheads want something like this?
    Anything "extra
    could be disabled for tournaments, but I dont think LE show up much in tournaments?

    #5 7 months ago
    Quoted from OLDPINGUY:

    but I dont think LE show up much in tournaments

    True. When I think tourney's, in my head I also include leagues as it's competitive play. In leagues I've played multiple LE's.

    #6 7 months ago

    It may generate some extra LE sales but likely piss off and lose sales from even more customers.

    The different art package and mirrored back glass (plus other valuable extras) are enough to hook me on some LE games.

    They should just standardize cosmetic extras that can’t be added if they want to sell more LE’s, especially mirrored back glass and matching art blades. Including an exclusive, matching LE topper would also be nice, like IMDN, but just wishful thinking.

    #7 7 months ago

    Not necassary at all and won't happen anyway, I personally think thats a good thing. I mean having more adjustments due to more mechanical aspects of the game ofcourse they will be there but an LE having coil strength adj and the Pro not would be a bad move.

    #8 7 months ago

    We all seem to Love Pinball Browser.....What about a non licensed game with an easy user interface to add Music?
    Or some degree of code changing through features? Extra balls assigned to more than what came stock?
    A super bonus to an insane combo?

    #9 7 months ago
    Quoted from OLDPINGUY:

    We all seem to Love Pinball Browser.....What about a non licensed game with an easy user interface to add Music?

    Now ur talking, JP2 lets say, I hate that theme music why not like Frankenstein have the option of a few different main music tracks. I know theres pinbrowser and I'm hoping if the main music is that shitty theme someone corrects it real fast but I would love either a few options from the factory or a easy way to upload my music of choice to change it up. I guess PBrowser is that method I'm just a goof who won't learn how to do it.

    #10 7 months ago

    I love it when pinside and podcasts come up with ideas for stern and company’s to charge us more $$$.

    #11 7 months ago

    My thought was not to charge us more, but to give us something more we could use.
    We sit with so many games with unfinished code, it might be nice as a group, if we could make game changes, and share them, and have choices, maybe?

    #12 7 months ago
    Quoted from OLDPINGUY:

    Not really, but could they sell more?

    Isn't one of the selling points of an LE the fact that there are only so many?

    If they were in a situation where they had a bunch of excess LE inventory that needed to move, sure, throw a software guy on there to create a new mode or something. But I really don't think this kind of thing is necessary at this point.

    #13 7 months ago
    Quoted from boustrophedonic:

    Isn't one of the selling points of an LE the fact that there are only so many?
    If they were in a situation where they had a bunch of excess LE inventory that needed to move, sure, throw a software guy on there to create a new mode or something. But I really don't think this kind of thing is necessary at this point.

    Would it matter if there are 500 LE, or 800? Would that stop an LE buyer today? I dont know.
    But as much as I wish to look at this as an incentive for Stern to Make for profit, the real goal are dedicated pinheads....
    Would bump from a Premium to LE, if it allowed more user control?

    #14 7 months ago

    Im just speculating here.....but with so much variety to choose from now.....the only way I would buy an LE, is 2nd hand. The deflation is considerable.....versus the pro and a premium. They will have to do something to continue adding value on the LE's....and exclusive code would be the cheapest way to do it.

    However, if the manufacturers added exclusive code to just the LEs....that would extremely disappoint me.

    I did like what Stern did with BM66 and Adam West for the super LEs. That was clever with a personalized callout...and justified for the additional money.

    If we are voting here...i vote "no"....i dont want manufacturers to add exclusive code to LEs.

    I vote "yes" there is a possibility they may in fact sell a few more with exclusive code.

    #15 7 months ago

    I for sure feel like they need to do something to make the LEs more appealing and stand out from the other models. Some powder coated trim and backglass to me is not worth the upgrade. You can powder coat your trim for $75 at any powder coater around town. I think some special code and tech upgrades could be a cool start.

    #16 7 months ago

    This is similar to tron pro and le, and I would agree it would be alright. Makes pro owners jealous but, I mean you do pay for more.

    #17 7 months ago

    How many of Stern's titles for the last 5 years were not able to sell out all of the LE versions? Just curious if Stern were to step up their LE game, then they wouldn't have an issue selling them.

    #18 7 months ago
    Quoted from Yoko2una:

    I don't know. I'm still mystified that even $6K doesn't get a fully featured game. JP2 looks amazing layout wise, but the static toy T-Rex is mind boggling seeing how JP1's is one of the best toys ever.
    If LE's want an extra mode, it should be something more like Midnight Madness, where it's not part of regular play and wouldn't affect tournament play. Then it's still a selling feature but completely not necessary for the competitive player.

    Spot on! A pro is about $6k like you said. For $6k we get a static t-rex mold, a plastic cut out raptor and a rotating hot wheels car? That's insane. At some point the pinball community as a whole needs to question what the hell are we paying for.

    #19 7 months ago

    Stern's Game Of Thrones has different play and rules for the premium and LE from the pro. The upper playfield adds a lot and can significantly affect scoring.
    I love my LE but really don't like the pro at all. almost like two different games IMO.

    #20 7 months ago

    It doesn't entirely make sense from a financial perspective though. Once software is written, it can be easily swapped into any machine meaning that they'd be doing more work for code that would then selectively only go in a minority of their games. They would then have separate branches of the codebase, both of which would surely run into unique bugs and require separate support and development.

    It's just a convoluted mess, and it's also just arbitrary. Plus, they probably make more total from selling pros than from the few LEs that get sold, comparatively. It's better to sell 100 things that make a $1 profit each than 10 things that make $5 profit each.

    #21 7 months ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    Spot on! A pro is about $6k like you said. For $6k we get a static t-rex mold, a plastic cut out raptor and a rotating hot wheels car? That's insane. At some point the pinball community as a whole needs to question what the hell are we paying for.

    I am already there, I sold everything and started over with bang for buck pins and EMs. I played my dodge city last night for over a hour and had a blast. It cost me $250. I had my $8500 NIB games and never ever got $8500 worth of enjoyment out of them. Nashville has some great locations for play that I can catch a few games of the latest stuff to hit the market. I just can't justify spending over $5k anymore for any pinball machine. I do think the LE's need something more for the current price point.

    #22 7 months ago
    Quoted from ktownhero:

    It doesn't entirely make sense from a financial perspective though. Once software is written, it can be easily swapped into any machine meaning that they'd be doing more work for code that would then selectively only go in a minority of their games. They would then have separate branches of the codebase, both of which would surely run into unique bugs and require separate support and development.
    It's just a convoluted mess, and it's also just arbitrary. Plus, they probably make more total from selling pros than from the few LEs that get sold, comparatively. It's better to sell 100 things that make a $1 profit each than 10 things that make $5 profit each.

    Do you think a few coded setting option variables would be too much work?
    I mean some settings we never touch, but might there be things we want? I dont know.

    I guess my perspective what does it take to motivate buyers, other than "I have enough to buy the best", or I want to buy the best because the game can do more?

    I Love my walking dead still, and one big reason is the amount of versions out there. It keeps the game exciting.
    Ive just received the Road show Chip to change the game, and Xmen, with the new soundtrack.

    I respect the 2 sides to the coin, I was just curious as this was a conversation I had recently with an open answer.

    #23 7 months ago
    Quoted from OLDPINGUY:

    Do you think a few coded setting option variables would be too much work?
    I mean some settings we never touch, but might there be things we want? I dont know.
    I guess my perspective what does it take to motivate buyers, other than "I have enough to buy the best", or I want to buy the best because the game can do more?
    I Love my walking dead still, and one big reason is the amount of versions out there. It keeps the game exciting.
    Ive just received the Road show Chip to change the game, and Xmen, with the new soundtrack.
    I respect the 2 sides to the coin, I was just curious as this was a conversation I had recently with an open answer.

    It could be work depending on what you are talking about. Are you talking about changes that would fundamentally change the way scoring or other behavior works? Not only could it be work, but it's also a mess to have machines out there running potentially two or more variations of the firmware. Plus, like I said in my prior reply, what benefit is it to Stern? They probably make more money selling Pros in volume than LEs in trickles.

    I mean, machines already have tons of customization. Maybe you (and others) should try to be more specific and come up with an idea of what you are talking about?

    EDIT: I'm not trying to shoot the idea down, I'm just offering my expertise as a software developer to provide a counter-point.

    #24 7 months ago

    I wish the whole LE model would be completely scrapped, just sell premiums for those that want "full featured" games, then give options for people to pay extra to add color trimmed, invisiglass, better speakers, etc. onto the premium models. A little more time and work for Stern...yes, but would give everyone the chance to get what they want and do away with this ridiculous model setup as it is. The LE factor has lost it's luster for most I think, basically just tossing money out a window at this point.

    #25 7 months ago
    Quoted from ktownhero:

    It could be work depending on what you are talking about. Are you talking about changes that would fundamentally change the way scoring or other behavior works? Not only could it be work, but it's also a mess to have machines out there running potentially two or more variations of the firmware. Plus, like I said in my prior reply, what benefit is it to Stern? They probably make more money selling Pros in volume than LEs in trickles.
    I mean, machines already have tons of customization. Maybe you (and others) should try to be more specific and come up with an idea of what you are talking about?
    EDIT: I'm not trying to shoot the idea down, I'm just offering my expertise as a software developer to provide a counter-point.

    Fair enough, but lets try this. First, far be it for us to determine Sterns profit margins relative to the 3 versions.
    We all see prices climbing, and expected to climb even further.
    We, meaning the masses tend to buy Pro or Premium, and we see differences in game play via ramps, upper playfields, lower playfields, but we no longer
    complain about the disparity and rules with scoring between 2 very different games.
    We see only cosmetic differences on an LE to spend several thousand more. Many seem burned on the cost, value, and depreciation, so I was thinking about not adding more to a playfield like the pro difference, but more to code. Would one want more hardware on n LE?)

    So we now go to specifics. In Sound, the ability to add/change music with an easier interface. We do this now as a MOD.
    Color RGB Lighting, the ability to change lighting affects. We do this now with Bulbs and Pin stadium.
    Code wise Scoring controls. Skill shot scores what? Extra Ball, Special, Huge Points?
    Orbit or Ramp shot control, How many shots, for what kind of reward? ( Irealize some of this exists)

    I am not suggesting a coders nightmare, nor do I have all the ideas that others might.
    I just feel as High end games seem to be heading to a permanent 10K price, is just limiting numbers with some cosmetics, good enough?"

    Sometimes I feel that if more LEs were sold, it could affect the price of a Premium, maybe.....

    #26 7 months ago
    Quoted from OLDPINGUY:

    Sometimes I feel that if more LEs were sold, it could affect the price of a Premium, maybe.....

    Sometimes I feel if they sold more LEs they wouldn't be LEs.

    #27 7 months ago

    I think the hardest part of making the LE different code wise is the added cost and time of QA for the manufacture. Today the prem and le are the same so they just need to test one. I could however see some very small changes to the menu system that don’t affect gameplay being cool. But they’d probably want to find a way to lock out premium owners from loaded le code. Not sure they have they boards setup like that?

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