(Topic ID: 67259)

What do I need to know before buying a pinball machine?

By Meowskiy

10 years ago


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  • 30 posts
  • 18 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 10 years ago by BigB
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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    #1 10 years ago

    Hi Pinside Forums,

    I'm really new to the pinball scene, and I personally love pinball, going to the arcade and playing some almost every week it seems. Over time I really wanted to save up money and buy a machine for my own. I definitely have saved up a couple grand over a long period of time and I am able to buy one at the prices I see online, however I do have some questions about what should I do and what I should note about pinball machines. Thank you all for your answers and support. Here's my questions: =)

    1. What's the best way of acquiring a pinball machine? (I can't go to conventions, at least most of the time.)

    2. I'm looking to buy for the home, what should I know about maintaining a pinball machine and what are some common problems or maintenance products I should buy/install?

    3a. When maintaining a machine, what's the major difference between EM's and the 'regular' machines during maintenance/repair?
    b. Is there any specifics between EM's and the others that I should take note of?

    4. Are there any specific terms or abbrevs I need to know to comprehend the pinball machine universe?

    Thanks for your answers and your support! (More questions may be added later on)

    -A Polish Cat

    #2 10 years ago

    Welcome to the hobby! I will try to help out the best I can.

    1. Best way to get a machine is to meet local collectors. Put your location in your profile so people nearby can get to know you. You say conventions are out, are there any pinball leagues near you? How about museums or spots that have a large number of pins? Second best way I guess is craigslist, avoid Ebay. learn as much as you can about machines so you are armed with knowledge before you go look at them.

    Here are some helpful websites so you can brush up on how they work before you buy one. Don't worry, you dont need to know everything before you do, I still have a lot to learn myself. I would suggest you buy a fully working one to start and then when problems arise you can fix and learn as you go. Dont start with a non working machine, you may find you are in over your head. Here are some other websites:

    http://www.flippers.be/pinball_basics.html this is a good site for the basics everyone asks, how do I fold a backbox? How do I remove legs? How do I transport etc...

    http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page This one is great for more in depth repair and how things work.

    http://www.pinrepair.com/em/ Here is a great resource on EM machines.

    My best advice, try and read some stuff on those and get familiar with the basics. As far as EM versus Solid State it all depends on what type of gameplay you are into, I have never owned a EM but I know it is mostly switch adjustments and you dont have Boards to worry about.

    When you find a game you want before you go look at it go to http://www.ipdb.org/search.pl and download the manual for that specific game. Solid State machines have a test menu you can use to test all of the lights, switches, solenoids, features, etc. Take a flashlight and look at all of the boards, anything burnt looking? Did the batteries leak acid on the boards? How does the playfield look? smooth? worn? these are all things you need to check out when you go.

    #3 10 years ago

    If you can afford it you need to get a new in box. You will have factory support and stern is good about that. I know it is intimidating but it is not that hard you learn as you go. As far as maintenance you clean it when its dirty tighten whatever gets loose. For Home use a new one will be good for a long time usually. You need a good distributer. Tilt amusement is a good one but there are others. It's a great way to spend time with family and friends

    #4 10 years ago

    Set a budget, research and play games to create a wantlist, only add games that you can afford to this wantlist, add and remove games off your wantlist as you go, meet local collectors through leagues, meet ups and pinside, find a game and make an offer.
    Play the pin you bought, wax it, clean it, fix it up here and there and have fun. It is that simple.

    10
    #5 10 years ago
    Quoted from Meowskiy:

    What do I need to know before buying a pinball machine?

    Most important rule of pinball:

    The resale value of the machine may go up or down.

    Do not EVER think of pinball as an "investment".

    #6 10 years ago

    Keep in mind that there are several recent Stern titles that dropped in value. NIB pro is great but LE's also can be had for a little more.

    Some things I do when looking:

    Go into the menu, go through diagnostics. Make sure all the coils work, make sure all the lights come on.
    Play a game or two. Look for any issues with the play field, wear, ect. Understand any damage the cabinet might have.
    Look at the translite and see if there's any issues with the back glass (scratches) Take a look with the playfield up. Does it have mods? Are the mods plug and play? Are they removable? Take a look at the DMD, make sure all the dots are there. And last but not least, check the going rate for the quality of table you're looking at. Maybe its priced to high or in some cases is the seller just looking to move it and its a deal.

    #7 10 years ago

    I would check out the resources practicalsteve posted above. There's a lot of good information there.

    1. To start I would check local listings and the market here. Try to avoid having a machine shipped if you can. Pictures can be deceiving and not everyone is honest about their games condition.
    2. I wouldn't worry about picking up tools to fix your machine until you have an issue. Novus cleaner, new balls, and some 100% carnuba wax will hopefully keep you going for a long time.
    3. Every game is going to be different. There are some games that are notorious for being difficult to maintain. When you find a game you want, search the forum for common problems.
    4. You will probably see HUO "home use only" meaning it has never been routed in an arcade.

    Good luck.

    #8 10 years ago

    Find what you like, buy what you can afford based upon the advice in this forum. Simple.

    #9 10 years ago

    Play it before you buy it, plenty of times too. Don't just play it once since in a home environment you can get tired of games pretty quick.

    Don't buy as an investment, buy because you like the game and want the chance to play the heck out of it

    #10 10 years ago

    buy a bigger house

    #11 10 years ago

    Just dive in head first. Hopefully there is a person in your area to do board work for you. Lots of problems on many machines are connector based.

    #12 10 years ago
    Quoted from yoshootme:

    buy a bigger house

    True.. They are like Doritos.

    #13 10 years ago

    Avoid the Craigslist ratrace for your first pin. Learn about what you like and what you are comfortable with fixing first, then you can handle a think fast, little time to ask questions situation to try to get a good deal.

    #14 10 years ago

    1. In person from a collector
    2. Pinballs require lots of maintenance. It's more of a hobby than just owning some fun thing. You have to enjoy tinkering, fixing thing and farting around with machines
    3. em machines have lots of switches that control the game logic, solid state are more like computers (circuit boards, CPU, memory, programming, etc). Can't tell you about maintenance differences - I don't have ems
    4. Tons of jargon. Keep reading forums and asking questions you will catch on

    Good luck!
    Jack

    #15 10 years ago

    There's no such thing as "a" pinball machine.
    Think: illegal immigrant who, once he finds his way into your basement/rec room, will sneak the rest of his friends and family over to live with him.
    The plural of pinball machines should be called an "infestation".
    Good luck!

    #16 10 years ago

    Just know one thing, they break... a lot. And once you get them working perfectly, they break again. And if you pay someone to fix it, something different breaks as soon as he leaves. Pinball techs can be hard to come by as well, so you're going to have to do a lot of work yourself. Somethings are very easy, some things make you pull your hair out and stay up until 3am wrenching away.
    If you're mechanically inclined, and have zen like patience, pinball is very rewarding. If you don't, it's expensive.
    Not pushing anyone away, but I've seen MANY people that were bitten hard by the bug, then end up with 10 big, broken, expensive toys collecting dust.

    #17 10 years ago
    Quoted from practicalsteve:

    are there any pinball leagues near you? How about museums or spots that have a large number of pins?

    No leagues near me that I know of, I live in North New Jersey. However, by the shoreline is the Silverball Pinball Museum, which does have a variety of machines, and PAPA is just 2-3 hours away aswell.

    Also, thanks for all the resourceful links, and I'll definitely read up on the parts and mechanics of a pinball machine.

    Thanks to everyone for posting! I was really surprised that I got so many replies!

    #18 10 years ago
    Quoted from PinballShawn:

    Just know one thing, they break... a lot. And once you get them working perfectly, they break again. And if you pay someone to fix it, something different breaks as soon as he leaves. Pinball techs can be hard to come by as well, so you're going to have to do a lot of work yourself. Somethings are very easy, some things make you pull your hair out and stay up until 3am wrenching away.
    If you're mechanically inclined, and have zen like patience, pinball is very rewarding. If you don't, it's expensive.
    Not pushing anyone away, but I've seen MANY people that were bitten hard by the bug, then end up with 10 big, broken, expensive toys collecting dust.

    Are their any common problems I should take note of? Or common maintenance to be supplied?

    #19 10 years ago
    Quoted from Chambahz:

    There's no such thing as "a" pinball machine.
    Think: illegal immigrant who, once he finds his way into your basement/rec room, will sneak the rest of his friends and family over to live with him.
    The plural of pinball machines should be called an "infestation".
    Good luck!

    Haha! Thanks.

    #20 10 years ago

    I'm still a bit confused on the differences in repair from EMs to everything else, as I've seen a couple posts claiming that EMs could be harder to repair and require more maintenance. Is this true?

    #21 10 years ago
    Quoted from Meowskiy:

    I'm still a bit confused on the differences in repair from EMs to everything else, as I've seen a couple posts claiming that EMs could be harder to repair and require more maintenance. Is this true?

    I have not worked on EM's myself but from my understanding once you get it all cleaned up and working they are really reliable. If you read that link on EM's I supplied above it basically walks you through what you need to do to get an EM in top shape.

    Quoted from Meowskiy:

    No leagues near me that I know of, I live in North New Jersey. However, by the shoreline is the Silverball Pinball Museum, which does have a variety of machines, and PAPA is just 2-3 hours away aswell.

    North Jersey, well that's a plus. There are bound to be local guys near you.

    Quoted from Meowskiy:

    Are their any common problems I should take note of? Or common maintenance to be supplied?

    Common problems when going to look at a machine include:

    Cosmetics
    Bad, bubbling, cloudy mylar. A big decision when buying a machine. You either say to yourself, I can deal with it, it does not look that bad or does not affect gameplay. Or you spend a lot of time removing it, and then you have to protect your playfield afterward. A highly chronicled repair and very debated topic. I would focus on getting a machine that has good mylar still on it.

    Playfield has wear. Again, does it look good enough for you, or do you want to learn touch up work? Again for your first machine I would recommend one that looks good enough for your standards, its a big process.

    Cabinet. Is it dinged up? artwork faded? To some it matters, to others it does not. I fall in the latter camp, some dings don't bother me, I would look for mold or water damage as any kind of "Do not buy" warning signs.

    Backglass or translate. What shape are they in? if its a backglass take it off and look at the back side to see if the paint is peeling or crumbling badly. Replacment backglasses can be hard/impossible to find, and if they are easy to find can cost a couple hundred dollars.

    Plastics, especially ramps. Are they all there? Any broken? Again depending on title they may be very easy to find and not expensive or incredibly hard to find and big $. A taxi spinout ramp will take you months maybe years to find and its going to cost you dearly. Check with the three major pinball parts companies when you are thinking about a specific title, see what they carry and have in stock specific to that machine.

    Other things to look at when checking out a game.

    Look at the boards in the backbox. Anything obviously bad? You are looking at the batteries, ask the person when the last time they were changed. are they green and fuzzy? is there any corrosion under them or on the boards under them? are any of the connectors burnt? Any burnt so bad that wires are soldered directly onto pins?

    Download the manual from IPDB.org before you go. take a look over the test menus, familiarize yourself with the tests and how they work. Learn how to test all of the lights, the switches, and the coils. If some GI lights are out could be a fuse, could need a new connector. If a switch is not working, could just need an adjustment. Hard to tell when you are at someones house potentially buying a game.

    When you are there checking out a game, take the glass off and start a game. Take the ball in your hand and make it do everything it is supposed to do in the game. Make it go over every switch, make it go through modes, have it start a multiball, test everything.

    Talk to the seller, what fixes have they done? Have they had any major issues they had to fix?

    Like I said, if its your first buy one fully working. One that you can play right away. Maybe the rubber is old, maybe some bulbs are out, small fixes are fine, just don't buy a game that won't boot up or one that randomly tilts every time it hits a pop bumper. Save that for your next game.

    #22 10 years ago

    Decide what you want in a pinball machine then look for advice on what to look for.

    I started off collecting EM pinballs, the ones I played as a kid. It's a TOTALLY different thing to a modern pinball machine. Different game, objectives, and experience.

    A properly working and dialed in pinball machine does NOT break a lot contrary to what some may say. I have machines spanning 5 decades of manufacture and I rarely have to fix them in a home setting. EMs are cheap to fix but require someone who has a relative mechanical aptitude over more modern pinball machines that will more or less point you in the direction of the problem.

    My best advice is to select what you want, old style EM 30s to the late 70s, older Solid state, late 70s to late 80s or the more modern DMD from the 90s on up. Then ask for advice here. Someone will chime in and you'll get better advice.

    #23 10 years ago

    As far as general maintenance.

    Cleaning. Use Novus 2 for your playfield, maybe followed up by Novus 1. You can buy it online. Don't use windex (for the glass is fine) or 409 or anything like that. You can wax your playfield, but buy a nice hard car wax with NO cleaners in it. You can use Novus 2 on plastics and ramps but I prefer Novus 1. DONT use Novus 3 on anything.

    You may want to rebuild you flippers at some point depending on how they are on the machine you buy, but its something you should learn to do.

    You will need to learn to adjust switches.

    You eventually will need to learn some soldering skills.

    You will eventually want to replace all of the rubbers depending on the condition they are in when you get that machine.

    You will eventually need to learn how to use a Digital Multi meter.

    This is why I stress that you should buy a working machine, there is no way you can learn everything beforehand. I still have a TON to learn myself. As problems arise you learn how to fix them. As they come up you buy the tools and parts you need. Read through those links I mentioned way up above, try and get a general sense of things. You can learn the tough stuff later when it breaks.

    #24 10 years ago
    Quoted from Meowskiy:

    I'm still a bit confused on the differences in repair from EMs to everything else, as I've seen a couple posts claiming that EMs could be harder to repair and require more maintenance. Is this true?

    I don't think so. I happen to think EMs are easier to repair, but they are different skill sets. The vast majority of EM maintenance (other than cleaning and replacing bulbs) is adjusting switches - almost everything is a switch. If you learn how to adjust and properly clean a switch, you have 70% of your knowledge base (assuming you can read schematics).

    Once you start learning, you will figure out what needs to be done. Step one is figuring out what is wrong. Step two is learning how to fix it. The good news is that there are a lot of self education resources and plenty of people here and on rgp to help.

    If you are going to be afraid to take the glass off, you probably don't want to deal with a pin.

    #25 10 years ago

    0_0 Wow, that's a lot, but I'll definitely look into it. Thanks to everyone!

    #26 10 years ago
    Quoted from Meowskiy:

    When maintaining a machine, what's the major difference between EM's and the 'regular' machines during maintenance/repair?

    Are their any common problems I should take note of? Or common maintenance to be supplied?

    Welcome to a fun and rewarding hobby- first put your general location on your pinside ID. It's nice at a glance to know where you are- there might be a fellow pinsider in your area.

    The 'regular' machines are referred to 'SS' (solid state) when comparing them to the early EM (electro mechanical). I have some of both machines. For normal maintenance there is no difference between the two as they both have similar playfield parts - not much has changed in 50 years. Repairs are a different story when you leave the playfield and wiring - mechanical relays vs circuit boards.

    Common problems would be switch related - most games use some type of switch for scoring and ball position indication. Flippers would be another one due to their heavy use - they are made to be repaired.

    Common maintenance is cleaning the PF and rubbers (use wax or Novus or pinball rubber cleaner). It depends on how much you play. On Taxi I notice the speed of the ball slows down over time even though the PF looks fine. But after I clean and wax it - ZOOM!

    Rubber parts have lasted me in home use way longer than I expected. My machines are kept away from any sunlight. But I do keep some rubber rings on hand. I will replace the sling rubbers every couple of years - depending on the machine.
    --
    Jeremy Agema
    Central WI

    #27 10 years ago

    Thanks Jeremy, another quick question, something I've been missing; What does PF mean? Thanks.

    #29 10 years ago
    Quoted from practicalsteve:

    PF is short for playfield

    Thanks.

    #30 10 years ago

    PF means playfield. If it's your first pin purchase I reccomend finding someone who knows more than you do about pins. Buddy up to them and have them go with you when you look at a pin to purchase. Don't buy a pin without seeing and playing it first. Leave that for the experts. Buy one that is in good condition. You will be a lot happier performing maintenance instead of repairs. Find a pinball club or group and get involved. Pins multiply...Like rabbits!! Take out a loan. Buy a bigger house...Plan ahead. Last year I was only going to get one. It was my favorite when I was a kid. It only costs $800. Well, it's one year and $13,000 later. I now have 5 pins. Good news is I'm still married. Good luck!

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