(Topic ID: 204629)

What do first when getting an un-maintained new EM

By Newman911

6 years ago


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  • 26 posts
  • 15 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by dasvis
  • Topic is favorited by 7 Pinsiders

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#1 6 years ago

I just got a Skylab from a family member.
This pin has not gotten much of any love in at least 10 years.

I know i want to replace all the rubbers. That's an easy thing to do.

Flippers:
One of the flippers buzzes, and one of them sometimes has very weak power.
Does this indicate I should do a flipper rebuild. Can someone confirm?

Inserts:
Most of the inserts actually popped out during the move.
The 2 arrows in the middle are cupping,

Cleaning:
the ball lane is very dirty. So is the rest of the Pin.

Waxing/Clearcoat:
in a couple of the pictures you can you can see the wood is planking.
I think I read that tables of this error don't have clear-coats. does that mean i should clear-coat it? or does that just mean i should wax it?
if there's no wax on the playfield, and no clearcoat, is it safe to play?

What's the first thing to do?

thank you for your help

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#2 6 years ago

Waxing, cleaning, rerubber are the LAST Things you do.

First thing I do is just fire it up and see if it resets properly. Sometimes I'll play around with the steppers first if its convinient but hey whatever. If the game doesn't reset, figure out why and go from there. once you have it starting correctly you can start addressing other issues.

Like I said, cleaning it up, rebuilding flippers etc...I don't bother with this until the game is actually 100 percent working or close to it. Kind of pointless to clean it up beforehand because hey you never know, you might not be able to get it running and you just wasted your time and a new set of rubbers. And, while sorting out other issues it's easy to dirty up a game you've just cleaned and rerubbered, so again, why bother.

#3 6 years ago

If it did not come with the game, Acquiring a schematic is one of the first things I do.

Mark Salas

#4 6 years ago

For me it seems pinball that are this old need a deep cleaning to make them reliable. You can clean here and there it get it to work, but in the end I tear every stepper, score reel, flippers, ect, apart and clean/replace what is needed. These old moving parts are usually gummed up and working sluggish.
As soon as all the moving parts are cleaned up, there is just adjustments after that.

I approach EM’s a little different than more modern machines. A soild state/DMD machine needs to be close to working completely before cleaning. The modern machine electronics can be expensive to replace or unavailable.

Once a EM is cleaned and rebuilt is is usually small adjustments to get it running.

#5 6 years ago
Quoted from ryan1234:

For me it seems pinball that are this old need a deep cleaning to make them reliable. You can clean here and there it get it to work, but in the end I tear every stepper, score reel, flippers, ect, apart and clean/replace what is needed. These old moving parts are usually gummed up and working sluggish.
As soon as all the moving parts are cleaned up, there is just adjustments after that.
I approach EM’s a little different than more modern machines. A soild state/DMD machine needs to be close to working completely before cleaning. The modern machine electronics can be expensive to replace or unavailable.
Once a EM is cleaned and rebuilt is is usually small adjustments to get it running.

This is all true, but I also think it's a bad idea for a newbie to go diving into a machine and cleaning/adjusting it in its entirety. An easy way for someone who doesn't really know what they are doing to cause lots of new problems.

#6 6 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

This is all true, but I also think it's a bad idea for a newbie to go diving into a machine and cleaning/adjusting it in its entirety.

100%. When I was new to EMs, I went all in, and ended up with a game with far more issues than I started out with. Now, I usually approach them systematically. First get the thing to reset, then to features, then any other loose ends. I only clean and adjust exactly what I need to piece-wise. Even after the game is 100%, I'm often hesitant to rebuild things. I'll just fix them as they break. Saves me the headache of breaking something that wasn't broken.

#7 6 years ago
Quoted from mbaumle:

100%. When I was new to EMs, I went all in, and ended up with a game with far more issues than I started out with. Now, I usually approach them systematically. First get the thing to reset, then to features, then any other loose ends. I only clean and adjust exactly what I need to piece-wise. Even after the game is 100%, I'm often hesitant to rebuild things. I'll just fix them as they break. Saves me the headache of breaking something that wasn't broken.

More or less my philosophy except for flippers. And it's easy to test steppers manually and see if they need a little attention even if they are working properly. And I'll go through all the score reels as well, tighten the stacks, and make sure the switches aren't close to going out of spec. Nothing gets more use on an EM pinball machine than the score reels.

#8 6 years ago

Williams EM flippers can always use a rebuild.. even after you've rebuilt them :/ Some buzzing is normal though.

Older games like this did have some clear coat, just nothing compared to the stuff modern games have. There was originally a clear layer of paint put down over the colored paint, and it's probably still partially intact.

#9 6 years ago

Pull each fuse and twist the ends making sure tbey are not loose. Verify they are correct vallue. Change the fuse holder block out. Cant tell you how how many times i have found over fused games. 25 amp in a 1/2 amp location.

#10 6 years ago
Quoted from Newman911:

Flippers:
One of the flippers buzzes, and one of them sometimes has very weak power.
Does this indicate I should do a flipper rebuild. Can someone confirm?

I'd rebuild them.

Nothing is more important than the flippers on a game.

Quoted from Newman911:

Inserts:
Most of the inserts actually popped out during the move.
The 2 arrows in the middle are cupping,

The wood shrinks, the plastic shrinks; there's probably a bunch of loose ones too.

They can be roughed up along the outside edge and epoxied back in place.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration#post-551287

Quoted from Newman911:

Cleaning:
the ball lane is very dirty. So is the rest of the Pin.

Get a can of Naphtha and .....

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/cleaning-and-waxing-pinball-machines-vids-guide

Quoted from Newman911:

Waxing/Clearcoat:
in a couple of the pictures you can you can see the wood is planking.
I think I read that tables of this error don't have clear-coats. does that mean i should clear-coat it? or does that just mean i should wax it?
if there's no wax on the playfield, and no clearcoat, is it safe to play?

Clean it, wax it, put new balls in it and play it.

If you love the game, you can clearcoat it.

If you only turn it on once a month when friends come over, just keep it waxed.

Quoted from Newman911:

I know i want to replace all the rubbers. That's an easy thing to do.

Get everything working first, so you don't dirty up the new rubbers.....

#11 6 years ago

get a schematic
replace the power cord
change out the coil sleves
ungunk any sticky steppers

#13 6 years ago

wow, an hour, and i already have 10 responses. Awesome!

it turns on (once i got help to figure out the left flipper) https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/em-troubleshooting#post-4108976
scores go up. I didn't go through and make sure they go up correctly or anything like that.
how in-depth testing would you do?

I do have an original Schematic.
new rubbers are on their way, mostly because 1 was already broken and it was 20 bucks

before i buy all these things
flippers
coil sleeves
power cord
Naphtha
wax

i need to
check steppers?(dont know how to do this)
check fuses
anything else?

#14 6 years ago

http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index.htm

Clay's em guide is your friend.

#15 6 years ago

yeah thats great. so much reading...
thanks

#16 6 years ago

In addition to the good advice above, I like to check these items first.

There are usually five tilt mechanisms on a Williams EM.

Weighted tilt - under the playfield

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Ball roll tilt - Left front cabinet
Plumb bob tilt - Left front cabinet

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Kick-off tilt - Middle of bottom mech board

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Slam tilt - Inside coin door

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Check the first two to make sure that the switches are not closed. These are normally open 'make' switches.

Check the ball roll tilt. The ball should be toward the front of the bracket and the switch on the back of the bracket should not be touching the bracket. The plumb bob should not be touching the bracket.

Most of the Project Pin EMs I buy are missing both the ball, 15/16" on some games and 1 1/16" on others, for the ball roll tilt and the plumb bob for the plumb bob tilt. I always replace these so the pin is like the way it was when it left the factory. You don't have to, but I recommend that you do. No hurry on that though.

The last two are the most important. The game will not even turn on if these are activated.

The kick-off switch is a normally closed 'break' switch. Make sure that the contacts are making a good strong connection. Clean the contacts with Isopropyl alcohol and 500 grit sandpaper or finer.

The slam tilt is a normally closed 'break' switch. Make sure that that the contacts are making a good strong connection. Clean the contacts with Isopropyl alcohol and 500 grit sandpaper or finer.

Check the switches on the coin door. There are two types of switches, two blade and three blade switches. The two blade switch is a normally open 'make' switch. The three blade switch is normally closed and normally open - a 'make/break' switch.

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These contacts are filthy! I need to clean them!

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These switches are often mangled by people trying to add games to the credit wheel. Ha! I just discovered a problem with my OXO! The wire should be in the 'up' position! When it is in the down position, like in the picture, the score motor might run forever and you likely won't know why!

Quoted from way2wyrd:

replace the power cord

If the power cord has been spliced, it should be replaced. Check the connection of the power cord to the wires on the mech board to be sure that the wire nuts are not missing and tight.

#17 6 years ago

Does this power cord need replacing?
It looks ok to me, but its probably 40 years old.

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#18 6 years ago

also, when i manually trip the slam tilt. the machine never seems to reset.
i have to power cycle to get it to stop

should i manually test the other tilts?

#19 6 years ago

Checking the fuses. Is important, because during the passage of time there is a 99.5 % chance that it has the wrong fuses put into it.

Inspect the power cord, carefully.

#20 6 years ago
Quoted from Newman911:

also, when i manually trip the slam tilt. the machine never seems to reset.
i have to power cycle to get it to stop

I don't want to confuse you at this point with how to fix a possible slam tilt issue. I can help you with this later.

If a Williams pin powers up, with lights, when you plug it in, switch on the power switch under the cabinet and press the left flipper button, then you can cross the slam tilt and kick-off tilt off the list of tilts to check. Note, this isn't necessarily true for pinball machines made by other manufacturers. All you are trying to prove up front in the fixing/restoration process is that the pin isn't stuck in one of the five tilt modes. A pinball machine in tilt mode can cause all kinds of grief when trying to track down problems later.

I see the TILT light showing on in the backbox in your first pics. Is it still on?

Quoted from Newman911:

should i manually test the other tilts?

No need to do that now. Plenty of time to do that later. Just manually check each tilt as shown above to make sure that it isn't activated.

Quoted from Newman911:

Does this power cord need replacing?

Things to check on a power cord:

Are there any splices?
Is it cracked or showing cracks when bent?
Are the prongs stable or do they move when you wiggle them?
Are there any loose strands of wire in the plug end?
Are there any cuts, nicks or pieces missing from the insulation?
Are there any obvious bends or compressed areas that may have broken the wires?

There may be more. A power cord is important. If you are unsure, replace it! They don't cost much. If you do replace it, get a 15 foot power cord. It takes five to six feet of cord just to get the cord out of the cabinet and to the floor. And you need to really be confident that you know how to wire up a new power cord. This will help:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/williams-swinger-restoration-and-eventual-retheme/page/9#post-2767082

You will need a grounded power cord with three wires if you decide to buy a new one.

#21 6 years ago

Lots of good posts here.

Get that Skylab playing - it's a great game. I like mine a lot.

#22 6 years ago
Quoted from mbaumle:

100%. When I was new to EMs, I went all in, and ended up with a game with far more issues than I started out with. Now, I usually approach them systematically. First get the thing to reset, then to features, then any other loose ends. I only clean and adjust exactly what I need to piece-wise. Even after the game is 100%, I'm often hesitant to rebuild things. I'll just fix them as they break. Saves me the headache of breaking something that wasn't broken.

Im glad you said this, Im about to go all in on an EM and Im new to it. One thing I was wondering is if there is a process in updating and restoring. Like A-Z checklist or a "do this first before you do this because...." flow to follow.

#23 6 years ago
Quoted from mrm_4:

One thing I was wondering is if there is a process in updating and restoring. Like A-Z checklist or a "do this first before you do this because...." flow to follow.

I'm coming up with a list of what I do, more or less in order. But this is for a restoration and is game specific for issues with this Williams Klondike. It would be much smaller for a simple 'just get it working' list.

Quoted from CrazyLevi:

This is all true, but I also think it's a bad idea for a newbie to go diving into a machine and cleaning/adjusting it in its entirety. An easy way for someone who doesn't really know what they are doing to cause lots of new problems.

Quoted from mbaumle:

100%. When I was new to EMs, I went all in, and ended up with a game with far more issues than I started out with. Now, I usually approach them systematically. First get the thing to reset, then to features, then any other loose ends. I only clean and adjust exactly what I need to piece-wise. Even after the game is 100%, I'm often hesitant to rebuild things. I'll just fix them as they break. Saves me the headache of breaking something that wasn't broken.

Also, I wouldn't recommend that a newbie try to clean all of the switches and do a full restoration right off the bat. It took me more than two years to be able to complete this list with fewer issues than when I started. It CAN be done with lots of help and reading, but would be a major project.

Consider this list like a buffet. Pick and choose only what you can eat!

  • Remove rust from legs, wax and replace leg levelers with new leg levelers. Shine up the leg bolts.
  • Check power cord for splices. Replace if necessary. Check wire nuts for missing or loose.
  • Remove fuses, one at a time, and check to see if Amperage is correct. Replace if not. Buff with Magic Brush the contact points on the fuse holders and fuses. Pinch fuse holders to tighten if fuses are loose. Replace fuse holders if necessary. Test with a DMM for continuity.
  • Clean and adjust all tilts. Pay special attention to the coin door slam tilt and the kick-off tilts on the bottom of the mech board. These are normally closed!
  • Check coin door switches for misadjustment. Clean and adjust as necessary.
  • Disassemble shooter rod, clean, replace sleeve, replace barrel spring and lightly lubricate with SuperLube. Reassemble and install. These old plastic shooter rod housings are often broken. A new metal one may be needed.
  • Remove, clean and insert new nylon solenoid sleeves for the pop bumpers, sling shots and flippers.
  • Disassemble and clean the slot-type reels on the playfield. (This should be interesting, never done one of these before).
  • Remove mech board and vacuum cabinet - no vacuuming for Klondike due to mouse mess.
  • Clean and repaint bottom of cabinet due to mouse mess.
  • Dust off mech board. Due to mouse mess, sand mech board and clear coat.
  • Clean and adjust all switches on mech board.
  • Shine all screw heads, washers and metal parts.
  • Disassemble score motor and clean cam and brackets.
  • Clean and adjust all switches on score motor.
  • Clean and adjust all switches under the playfield.
  • Replace all playfield insert lamps with new #44 lamps.
  • Replace all playfield general illumination (GI) lamps with new #47 lamps.
  • Replace five pop bumper lamps with new #47 lamps.
  • Clean playfield and wax with Carnauba.
  • Clean all playfield parts - flipper bats, posts, plastics, aprons etc.
  • New rubber rings on playfield.
  • Disassemble and clean all stepper units - Credit Unit, Player Unit, Match Unit.
  • Disassemble and clean all parts for each score reel (four total).
  • Adjust and clean score reel switches.
  • Clean and adjust all switches in the backbox.
  • Clean wooden chime box. Parts missing. Will need to order new parts.
  • Replace all backbox lamps with new #47 lamps.
  • Coat backglass with Triple Thick to prevent further flaking.
  • Clean outside of cabinet with blue window cleaner.
  • New locks on coin door and backbox door.
  • Glue bottom cabinet panel back onto cabinet.

http://www.pecospinball.com/klondike_restoration.shtml

#24 6 years ago

is that last fuse supposed to be a 10amp fuse?

theres a screw in bad place

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#25 6 years ago

More than likely, check the schematic to be sure. You really need to replace those fuse holders.

#26 6 years ago
Quoted from chad:

Pull each fuse and twist the ends making sure tbey are not loose. Verify they are correct vallue. Change the fuse holder block out. Cant tell you how how many times i have found over fused games. 25 amp in a 1/2 amp location.

In restoring all of my pins, I think that I have found correct values maybe twice.
Fuse holders (especially Bally) are a huge issue. Always, always closely inspect them for corrosion & weak tension on the holders, & better yet replace them.

& replace the power cord. Don't skimp here, PBR offers a nice one.

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