And then the originals that are already done (that nobody currently likes) become collectable in a few years.

True but stern isn't like JJP and can't redo such a major element this late. Especially since a license is involved. A damn shame.

Who knows, Stern may be considering redoing the playfield art. They're running a business and low sales hurts their business, as does delaying a release, paying for new art and scrapping existing material.

In the end it might not make financial sense but wouldn't you at least consider it?

I'm sure they considered it as they are taking this on the chin every day since reveal. Aurich, how long would it take to redo / get approval for something of this magnitude?

One thing they know that we don't are the other aspects of the game such as sound, rules and gameplay. They may feel confident that those aspects will win out.

They must have had multiple approved versions? I'd like to see what they shelved....could it be worse?

Way more than that, I'm sure.

Regardless of the title, I think 700 LEs is too many. Best to cap it at 400. Maybe 500 tops. Any more than that and the "limited" status becomes a bit of a stretch. And no LEs made in that quantity have ever gone up in value.

Same goes for JJP.

Is there any other way to win back the pinside mob for this game?

The most important thing in their business model is keeping the line busy. They aren't a design house, they are a manufacturing company. With the recent titles, I think the are fine if they need to buy time to do some tweaks. I don't watch the show, but can enjoy the theme, but the LE buyers who may be die hard fans bailing on LEs should give them pause. This could be a huge cash cow and keep the line busy for a long time, but if enough are going to balk, keep running legacy titles and rev the playfield art and make them with a slight delay.

Personally, my reason for buying an LE is the value offered when purchased, not in hopes of an increase in value in the future.

I never sent in a deposit so that is one less thing to think about.

I told my distributor, I'm not buying the LE because the art looked ridiculous. I told him to let Stern know, he said they already do.

I hope others (if they feel the are is sub par) that they tell their distributor why they backed out and hopefully Stern realizes they have a big problem. I guess Stern doesn't care that they have some atrocious selling games like The Avengers, Mustang, WWE, TFLE (can still buy LE NIB).

Maybe Stern sold the games already to the distributers (tag you're it). Whatever, I think this should be a wake up call (but it won't be). Stern did the same with Avengers (a can't miss title) and they didn't learn then.

If they actually listened. And went to the trouble of a big emergency rerun of playfields, I tell you right now that I would buy it, I would bring forward a future purchase and buy this to applaud their action.

I suspect it's not so easy to just rerun a legacy title at a moment's notice. Wouldn't they have to get all of the 1000's of parts lined up first?

Really, why not? Even if they have a couple hundred printed already couldn't they send them back, sand them clean and reprint? What would that cost them, $50 per PF? Add to that $25-50 per machine for adding the throne and changing the back cab art. Could as little as $75 turn the tide for GoT?

And if they did a good job, then the LEs would sell out in a day. If you think about it, at this rate that plan would probably get the LEs sold faster than they're moving now.

I might start a poll with a slightly different question. Something like this:

"Why the hell did you put down a deposit on a game that you had never seen pictures of, not to mention having never played?"

Potential answers would be

1) I'm a boob

2) I'm a Stern fanboy

3) Pinball is an investment and I wanted to make a killing by flipping it

it's a refundable deposit.

If the game was like Met LE, you'd have the game locked up. If it wasn't like Met LE you get a deposit back in 30 seconds.

Reasonable point, but those distributors DID leave a big old window to back out. Was a free option of sorts.

Point already made.

1000 is a good minimum number. If the game is good enough it will sell. Games aren't supposed to be an investment and after market increases don't go into Stern's pockets.

You are correct. I could add another response:

4) I am still butthurt by getting screwed out of a METLE.

I was 100% in. Been waiting for this theme for a while. But like the majority of folks, the reveal left me less than enthused. I had a week to think about backing out of the purchase (before I had to put down a deposit). Eventually I just let it go.

What I don't get about Stern on this whole debacle. They obviously must know about dissatisfaction with the cab art and playfield art. I can't grasp why they haven't released extended gameplay video of the machine. That might win some people over. Then I got excited to see that they posted a vid of the upper playfield. What'd we get to see? The ball leaving the flipper. Coming back down. Flipping the ball over to the other flipper. That's about it.

IMHO, Stern continues to drop the ball on what could have been a hit for them.

None finished yet.

Because the machine doesn't even exist. What they showed were 3D renders. They couldn't bust out a gameplay video if they wanted to. You're just getting little snippets of tests. That's why the upper playfield has a Walking Dead translite reflection on it, it's in a test machine.

Why they did it that way I couldn't tell you, but that's why they keep showing little bits, they can't do more.

Pulled it, and not just because of the art. They whiffed bad on this launch...I'm sure they got tons of media hits though.

I was hoping they'd have a great video with details around the state of code at launch, confirmation of audio from the show, some of the mechanics in action, a sneak peek at dots and lighting...all we got were 3D renders of the machine and a feature matrix with a big "subject to change" asterisk.

Since then we've had a few marginally interesting videos and 113 "stay tuned" messages from Jared (not his fault).

Doesn't mean the game won't be great, but it didn't exactly inspire the confidence to order an LE (I'm assuming was one of the big goals of showing the LE before the Premium ).

I told my Stern distributor his prices sucked.

Doh....good point gents!! Not up to snuff on how long between an announce and actual production.

I would need the art completely redone. As others have said, that's unlikely, especially for the playfields. My best shot at owning a GoT is if this game ever gets a VE release (will it sell well enough to justify?) and they redo the art like they are supposedly doing with SM. Maybe GoTVE will also have an LCD. I can dream!

Didn't they say they were shipping games to Europe this week? If so, how could they do that if they didn't even have a single completed production game or at the very least, a prototype?

Also, doesn't Stern put test games out before starting production?

Beats me on all counts, but those shots they showed were definitely 3D renders. My guess is that they're building Pros only at the moment, and all the stupid 4 seconds videos have been of the half built LEs.

I'm guessing that what we're seeing is the attempt to meet a deadline that was set 2 years ago. Even the best designers can't do their best work if not given enough time.

As did I! Also told him I am going to import used machines from now on rather then buy from him.

i never ordered. kept my deposit in my bank.

When they finish the code, I will evaluate the game.

I'm a big GOT fan, but I'm tired of their code shenanigans.

I don't know, right before the release when insiders were saying no LCD display the energy got sucked right out of the title. The poor art package then came in behind that and we have a generally lack luster soft opening for the game.

Now Stern is holding off on showing us the premium art package because they believe it may kill the rest of the LE sales. I hope the code is super far along on this title to get it a good buzz when it is released.

You talkin to me? Haha!

The LE model for Stern is dying and GOTLE is speeding up the process.

$7900 versus $6600 for a Premium. That's kind of a joke don't you think?

The whole idea of trotting out the LE first to soak up those sales, creating a false sense of demand, and then follow up with a premium afterwards is no longer fooling people.

How about just selling two models, a pro and a premium? 700 is NOT an LE anyhow, please!

I promise you this, 5 years, 10 years, 15 years, nobody is gonna give a crap about an older LE and paying more for it versus a premium. Pinball machines aren't gonna work that way, you already see it with older "LE's".

Plus (unlike STLE) you get no shaker (that's around $170) and you get no head side emblems (that light up) and you get no super cool lights cut into the side armor.

For me, I loved the light effect of STLE with the photon torpedoes. With the shaker, with the nicer armor and with the side head emblems and lighted speakers. Maybe not worth another grand, but worth something. With GOT LE not so much that is worth paying extra for.

With GOT LE what do you get, yes the side armor is cool, but it's not as cool as STLE with the light effect.

Yep. They didn't do enough to make people feel like they risk missing out. Nothing cool and unique about the LE to drive sales here. Why not wait for the (supposedly) superior art package of the vastly cheaper Premium?

I may still be a GoT buyer. I can just wait a bit longer to decide.

STLE is a gorgeous stunning looking pin. And from what I recall, because I did put a deposit down originally with JJ thinking the LCD was coming, it was $7400 or thereabouts?

Now it's $7900 for less?

I'm not getting why people are thinking the premium will have a superior art package. The playfield won't change, so we're only talking about the cabinet and translite. It's going to only have the wrinkled black armor, as well. Looking at the features matrix, the way the premium art is described makes it sound like it will just be a North-themed version of the pro art, with characters specific to that part of the show. If you're holding out for a whitewalker picture, the wall elevator, or Jon Snow on your machine, then you'll probably be in luck. Other than that, I can't imagine how it would trump the LE art, which is hand painted. The premium will most likely be photoshopped.

Where is this superior word coming from? I bet it looks just like the Pro, just with swapped characters. Unless they're redoing it now after all the hate.

Is that possible? Would be great!

Does Stern not use focus groups?

because we all know that an addams family gold has no more value than a regular addams family.

i think that uou are wrong on saying it wont matter down the line

My money is in on Aliens and I've already moved on. Got GoT? Let's see if any of our ideas are implemented in artwork changes or actual play videos.

Pinside = crowdsourcing........they'll catch on eventually

And the idea of "scarcity" is being devalued across the board with every so called release of a new LE. It's matters less and less.

A TAF gold or BSM or my LotrLE is losing ground and relevance every single day. It is what it is. There are 20k+ TAF's out there, the idea of collecting a "gold" one is diminishing as more and more new titles and supposed LE's are coming out.

There will always be collectors but as a "collector", I'd much rather have a regular HEP restored TAF than a gold one all day long.

I don't know, I think the people who know pins will value the LE's that were actually LE. Like TRON. LOTR LE had an extra coat of clear. Things that were real differences. Now it's just art. The whole Premium/LE split is what's dumb.

So true. The early offering of an LE is straight out of sales 101, and is a technique effectively based on manipulation of the consumer. It is not based on a value proposition and is therefore unsustainable over time.

I'm in for an LE. Why not?

I love pinball and have enough money to buy them without financial worry. At the same time, I am a realist/fatalist and recognize our time behind our pins could very well be limited with a world of nuclear terror. The MUFOS hate us. Carpe diem. Looking forward to more fun pinball.