I think when you see stuff like wires soldered directly to pins, its a safe bet the machine was maintained by a hack in the field and pretty much everything that went wrong with it was rigged with whatever parts they had on hand. You're going to find months worth of WTF surprises. The seller was careful not to completely show this machines faults, and I wouldn't trust a dealer that wouldn't make a connector repair like that before selling the game.

There is no reason to have a common used game shipped, its always the way people get burned the worst. This isn't even close to some of the horror stories posted here, but it always goes down the exact same way with the machine carefully staged to barely show the flaws.

Rob (Rockland/Gwaxt72) is reasonable at the very least. He is one of the good guys. I've bought close to a dozen games from him over the last couple years, in fact he has one now I'll be picking up soon. Have I gotten a game that has had/developed an issue, sure. Fact is, after touching base with him he has always been more than fair and worked things out and this keeps customers happy. This is why I keep buying from him.

I've learned this in general, try to reach out to the seller first if you are unhappy. Coming on here and telling us all how you got "fucked" may make you feel better, but doesn't really address the issue. Now, if a seller was a douche and you really tried to be reasonable, blast away. My point is, give any seller a chance to maybe make it right first before jumping to conclusions.

I hope you are able to work out the kinks here. Good luck OP and welcome to the hobby.

To be fair, it was a common solution to a common problem when WPC games were on route--it was cheap, quick, and it worked. It also didn't require any delicate board repairs (which could result in more problems if things went wrong). This hack/repair doesn't always necessarily mean that the rest of the game is in shambles.

Am I the only one that thinks the dings in the cabinet aren't that big of deal? To me it loiks likw it matches tge description. The soldered connectors suck and should have been disclosed but it is literally 15 mins and $ 5 to fix. I know that's not the point, but it's not like he got sold a trashed machine.

Retailers should step up their game and not "overlook" and omit simple things knowing full well their rep will be challenged here on pinside. If you're going to resell a game fix it right. I bought a sttng from someone here on pinside who flips advertised as shopped and 100% and it arrived with ALL the usual problems and hacks- hes lucky i havent called him out. But i certainly have the right to, and you do too.

I wish I had bought from a place like this a few years ago....stand up guy

Seems like you got lucky on this one. Seller has posted he will take it back, wow, that is not very common. Now you have learned to ask for more detailed pics, and take your time in the excitement it is easy to over look things. Sometimes you see what you want to see. It looks like a good game, all things that can be fixed if you like. Remember be specific about what your looking for. If you want a 9 out of 10 ask don't assume. Good luck

it's the same machine. you can see the chunk out of the left side of the cabinet in both set of pics. flipper buttons and LEDs are simple to replace.

for what it's worth, i agree the cabinet damage isn't a big deal -- the condition of the playfield is 10x more important, and it seems to be in pretty good shape. more good news is the seller seems willing to make it right. hopefully a happy ending here.

Rob is a stand up guy. I bought 6 machines from him over the years. There are always in the shape described. He even came by and rebuilt a flipper with me the other day.

I'm guessing the garbled DMD really freaked the OP out. It's just a ribbon cable issue. These are the easy fixes you want.

People would rather not play retail price, but retail gets you the peace of mind with a return in this case.

You would not get a return in a private sale most likely. I still don't understand why people don't contact the person they bought it from first. Makes no sense.

No way he was trying to pull a fast one on you. Has too much at stake with reputation, etc. Plus, who wants to have to ship a game back? Shipping either way is a pain in the ass.

Glad it's all being worked out.

I commend Rob for posting in this thread and I would not hesitate to buy a machine from him.

This sounds like a new person in the hobby having an idea of what they were buying but being too new to know what questions to ask and being disappointed when they got something that didn't meet their expectations.

I never had an issue with Rockland, and have seen some great deals come from there in the past few years. But in the past few months, I have heard from several people who also felt things weren't as described and felt they have been burned a bit by them once they received the merchandise. They did have some great deals and I know some people who were very happy. But I've had a few people warn me about them lately. Either way, I think Rob has been pretty decent to work with and they seem willing to try and make things right. I'll still happily browse his collection anytime.

Agreed,
I've never bought from him, but based on his response to the situation, I wouldn't hesitate to purchase a game from him in the future.

Look at the label on the back

Its a german container pin 240v

Only positive experiences with Rob over here

Op, you do not get a refund opportunity very often. This is a stand up offer.

Looking at the game again, I agree the sanctum wear is far better then most and the chips out of the cabinet reflect player quality. Let me propose a different option. Contact Rob through a PM and come to a cash agreement on a differential refund for the game. The cash should offset the issues and you keep the game. I would start with at least the cost of shipping. Rob will have to pay that at least to get it back. There is nothing wrong with a players quality game if you are happy with the price. Shadows are becoming more expensive and harder to find. Assuming you can first reach a cash settlement, then go to work. As my Toga buddy Herb stated, the connector fix is easy and costs like 5 bucks ( Hint, you need a tool). I believe if Rob had seen this he would have fixed for the simple reason it is so easy and cheap.
For the cosmetic issues get creative. The playfield screw hole can improved with a color matched sharpie. It is in a prominent place on the play field but with the glass on it will look much better.As far as the scuffs on the head, look for replacement decals. They cost in the 80 to 100 buck range and are fairly easy to replace. The cabinet chips need work and I do not believe you can find cabinet decals. Fill in the wood and use a local artist to touch up. I enjoy improving games as much as playing them. That is part of the hobby.

By the way when you get pics of a game, STUDY THEM and ask questions.

Lastly once you settle up with Rob, I would post that you have done so. He is a good guy and he will make good as stated.

Explains the cabinet damage

Folks, at $3200, this should have been a damn nice machine. Hacks on the boards from a retailer is unacceptable in my book for a $3200 shadow.

OP, every retailer had a fan club and this one is no exception. Many will come to his defense here however 3200 for that shadow is unacceptable.

Yes the connectors cost $5 bucks but we are talking about a newbie who identified himself as such to the seller. For $5 bucks, the seller should have done it. Players condition in my book doesn't mean hacked boards. I would take the seller up on his offer and send it back.

I do commend the seller for offering to take the game back. Maybe this game slipped through the cracks. This is a generous offer OP and many retailers would tell you to pound sand. Rob is very active here and I'm sure he would make
It right.

IMO, I would send it back. Lesson learned. Next time, inspect game or get 500 pics. Good luck to both.

I have bought a bunch of games from Rob & he is always great about pointing out stuff that he knows about the game, good and bad.

He does go through a ton of games (said getting 40 in this week in another thread) and stuff can fall through the cracks. $3200 from a retail operation shipped to your door sounds about right to me, if not low. Remember he is retail, overhead, brick & mortar and shipping isn't free.

It sounds like he is willing to work something out with the OP. Returning IMHO would be a hassle & the problems seem fixable and stuff that's handy to learn for pinball ownership. I'm sure there is a cash middle ground that would make everyone happy...

I agree, Rob is very stand up for offering a full refund and shipping costs. At the same time, his feet should be held to the fire for the "creative angle pictures" and sending a machine with connector hacks like that to a customer at full retail price.

This is an opinion and a guess only, but I will take a stab that this machine was sent without the thought that the customer would ever show up on pinside. Those hacks are not slips through the cracks. Those missing chunks of the back of the cabinet were not disclosed. They were carefully omitted.

Again, good of him to just say "send it back", he knows exactly what he sent.

Please, let's see you fix those hacks in 15 minutes. Ain't gonna happen.

Those of us with the skills look at that and say "I can fix that" , no big deal. But a newbie paying full retail should not have to be facing that situation. On top of that, any of us looking at those hacks would immediately point them out and be expecting a lower price for taking a machine like that.

Robs offering refund... The only people making out is the shipping company... If u like the game and can live with the cabinet...maybe ask for a partial refund... Just a idea... Robs a good guy never hear of people willing to take games back that were shipped

Shipping was included in that 3,200? If that's the case you got a players Shadow for 2,800. That's actually probably not that bad. The hacks are disappointing, but you could totally fix this thing up, and get it to the level you want. Remember there is a reason high end resterations cost so much. You have missed the boat of flawless games at cheap prices. Pinball is growing and so are the prices. Even for the dogs let alone something in the top 100 list.

Agree.

OP needs to work this out personally with seller and not air out everything here. The price is does not seem that bad given everything. $2800 to $3500 seem to be the average price range of Shadow. A few dings in the cabinet is not that big of a deal. Board hacks suck but common and those things can be sorted. DMD issues could easily be cable related. Important thing is condition of playfield and that seems to be pretty good. Maybe the price should of been a little lower, maybe seller should of better represented condition, and maybe the seller should of been more cautious. Live and learn.

I can see it from the OP's standpoint. He bought a machine from a trusted seller. That was between them. The machine has issues and he needed some advice. I dont think there's anything wrong with getting other people's feedback when there are issues that may not have been clearly represented over overlooked.

That stinks. If you're new to the hobby never buy a game without seeing and playing it in person. Even if you think you're getting a great deal, don't do it. Find some local pinheads and buy pins from them.

It sounds like the consensus here is solid:

1. OP: return the game due to a very generous offer from Rob.
2. Everyone makes mistakes, and Rob is willing to make it right.

And on that note, OP, I would seriously consider buying locally first for a bit or just order a new Stern from your choice of vendor (Tilt Amusements, Games Exchanges of Colorado, Cointaker all come to mind right off the bat with solid reputations on Pinside).

I got burned like this too when I first got in back in 2012 (not really all that long ago) - was a total disaster of a Jurassic Park machine. Then I had a local retailer tell me he had a nice JP, and I showed up totally interested in The Getaway, and he swapped the prices right then and there on me because all of a sudden I didn't care much for JP when seeing Getaway. Both of those experiences were within 2 weeks of each other. A local pinsider named Snurdley showed up and saved me from leaving the hobby because I had nothing but bottom-dwelling trolls feeding on my naive newness and lack of experience.

Bottom line: don't let this experience burn you too badly. Rob is being extraordinarily generous in offering a refund, and you'll come out relatively unscathed. Stick locally for a bit, find some Pinsiders in your area (may require some driving - I drive 1-2 hours each way regularly to hang out with fellow Pinsiders), and see if someone local would be willing to help you get your foot in the door to the hobby. That or buy a new Stern. You'll definitely be ok going either way.

Good luck!

Rob's a good guy,
nothing to worry about here.

Terms like 'players' 'nice' 'very nice' 'light scuffs' are all pretty subjective. I don't see anything shady going on by the seller. It would have been great if he offered some full photos of damage and the connector issue should have prob been mentioned. But he wasn't asked for full photos.

That's a nice player to me and not bad at 3200. Shadow has been creeping up in price a bit. Ultimately as I said before - if your ready to jump into the hobby with an older pin you need to be ready to either work on the machine a bit or pay someone to. If you could get $200 off for the connector not being disclosed and the screw divot and missing bits of cab art I would call it good rather than shipping back.

Just think 2 years down the road you'll have 20 pins and fixing up a game in this condition will seem like nothing to you. As you can read there are tons of great people on here with vary solid advice, and experience. I drove 650 miles yesterday to meet yet another great Pinsider and get a great game. Had every inch of game sent to me via pics , as well as a great conversation about what I was looking for and what problems game may have. Hang in there, and put a little more leg work into your purchases and you should be fine.

Machine looks fine for that price if shipping was included. Kind of a shame to send back since CPR is running new playfields and I believe repro art is also easily available for this game. I bet you could have just sold or traded it localy for a pin you'd be happier with.

Hobby is a money pit, get used to it.

My opinion on this is, Rob was not contacted before this post was made, so he had no chance to make it right, as he stated, this is the first he has heard of it, 2nd shipping damage DOES happen, who is to say some of the cabinet damage did not happen in shipping, 3rd Rob admitted he missed the soldered pins and should have caught that, his bad, 4th As soon as he found out he offered a full refund and to pay shipping to get it back to him, 5th 3200 RETAIL is still a good price for a Shadow in this condition, try getting a Shadow retail from Automated, or some of the other sites, your looking at 5K plus. The screw through the playfield, should have been noticed, but it was very small, and with the volume of games Rob goes though, I could see him missing that. 6th the ribbon cables are more than likely what is causing that display issue as mentioned by several people, 7th this is a 22 year old game, they do tend to get dinged up over the years, I have seen a lot worse. 8th, I have never seen a bad post about Rob and considering the amount of machines he has sold (I got my LW3 from him).. Rob did the right thing and offered a full refund and return shipping, very generous offer on his part.

OP, in the future, contact the original seller first before you come on and rip the seller without giving them a chance to make it right, things do happen in shipping, and minor issues do happen to 20+ year old pinball machines. Personally, I buy what I can see if possible, I still do not think 3200 RETAIL is a bad price for that game with the issues, they can all be fixed.

I would ask if anyone is in your area who could stop buy and check it out for you, I have done it for people in the past, and I am sure others would do the same, the sanctum looks great on that game, that is usually destroyed.

Best of luck on whatever you decide to do with it.

And I agree, pinball is a money pit, just like a boat!

Are you the guy that wrote this? And tried to ''shame'' me because you're a newb? I await your answer.

hudsonvalley.craigslist.org link

I have dealt with Rob and found him to be honest and accurate in his description of condition. His willingness to take this machine back is an example of his desire to keep his good rep. He deals in many routed and well used machines, but has always been honest as to their condition and has provided the opportunity to many to get an A title machine for a great price. He is as far from a scammer as I have seen in the hobby.

Get your money back. No one ever offers a refund including shipping, so TAKE IT!

Buy a brand new in the box Stern for the $1400 difference.

You got a re-import, hacked game, for a crazy high price.

- Things to consider:

You probably should not have told the seller you were a newbie. That got you the worst of the worst.

The photos you did NOT get, tell you way more that they ones you were sent.

There is no way anyone can miss those hacked up boards. As soon as you get any game, you re-seat all the connectors before powering it up, especially one that just spent 4 months on the ocean.

Those fuses look like they ARE slo-blow.

You got lucky on your solution this time, next time it won't work out nearly as well. NEVER buy a used game you have not examined in person. Ever.

Condition is subjective to the person selling and buying so:

1. If you are going to buy without personally inspecting, you get what you get.
2. I hate shipping machines and do whatever it takes not to.
3. Your personal inspection and payment in cash is better for both parties.

Better to walk away from a deal knowing you did the right thing than try to justify the machine sent to you when you know deep down it is not what you wanted.

I dunno. To come on here and start bashing people seems pretty f@#ked up. Rob offered to take the game back. What more do you want? Why is shackle getting bashed on craiglist now? I don't know shackle personally but I'm curious. I'm not a big part of the pinball community but this site is a great thing. Don't screw things up before you get started. I bought my first game from a pinsider local to me. I didn't even know how to raise a playfield. Glad he was patient with me. Now I'll try to tackle most anything but board work. So many cool people here that are willing to help and give answers. Hell, I just pmed a local guy about something on a whim and had the parts in less than an hour.

I have NEVER whispered a bad word about Rob, so if the OP is the one that made the craigslist post, singling me out, and saying I ''whisper'' crap, I have serious issue with the original poster.

hudsonvalley.craigslist.org link

Why would the original poster, a newbie single you out... My guess is that was someone else.

I work in psych and am wondering how someone in WA could hear you whispering anyway? I bought a game from Rob as well and am totally happy with the deal. Hes a good dude.

The only thing that comes to mind, is a local guy to me said ''FU**** Flippers!'' about Rob selling his games in the North East for sale thread, and I called the guy out on it, and stood up for Rob. If that's praise, so be it. My mind isn't changed, Rockland pinball is legit, being an ignorant newb that jumps out of the airplane without knowing what they're doing- not my problem where they land.

it's possible, that's why I'm waiting to hear back. It very well could be another person I suspect, and if so, I will take it up with him personally, if he's man enough to admit that post.

Glad to see the seller handling this. I think the game looks pretty decent overall, especially the playfield. I would have been mainly upset at the board work on the game, that should have been disclosed. I would think a refund of something along $200 would make it right in my opinion. The larger gouge on the left side of the cabinet artwork should have been pointed out as well, that's isn't just a typical scratch or gauge and is in a very visible area.

Let's get this back on the subject, before it turns into another Kanada thread.....

If he did not say it to your face, I doubt he will admit it to you.

Yes. **Please**...
(insert Tired Moderator emoticon here)

Who?