(Topic ID: 218125)

What are your thoughts on the Spike II system?

By LoserKid_Pinball

5 years ago


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  • 566 posts
  • 99 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by PinMonk
  • Topic is favorited by 21 Pinsiders

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Post #26 A report from an operator and a life cycle expectation. Posted by xTheBlackKnightx (5 years ago)

Post #215 Things to consider from a senior technician’s perspective. Posted by xTheBlackKnightx (5 years ago)

Post #262 Words of expierence and a warning. Posted by xTheBlackKnightx (5 years ago)


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#102 5 years ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

Any system that is so fragile that adding a single mod can blow it up (as Gomez has stated Spike is) is a bad system. On paper it may have great features, but real world? So far very unimpressive and WAY too fragile.

All electronic systems have been and are becoming networked distribution systems. From the studio radio systems we build to automobiles and everything in between. Just like pinballs, our company has never intended to have mods applied - whether older pre-network designs or current tech. Not really "fragile", just never designed for additional circuits. There's a big difference between adding something like an automotive relay to a 20 or 30 year old electronic product, and tapping something into a high speed computerized network - sure the risk of damage is higher. We've had folks take apart our embedded board sandwhich, not realizing how careful you have to be to replace the several thermal transfer pads on the backs of some intense ICs...or the overheats and fails. That's the modern world of computerized electronics getting faster, shrinking and compacting every day.

Modern electronics is less and less a playground for amateurs as well. Back up a couple decades, if you had some basic electronics knowledge - you know some things about ohms law, and transistors, things like that...and then you got the schematic for whatever it is: pinball, stereo system, television...then you could tinker. People still blew things up occasionally. Now you get a schematic and the device has an FPGA, software heavily wrapped into hardware, high speed networking and more. You don't know what the program behind the FPGA is, or perhaps what the pinouts are expected to do - and everything is way more complicated. You can't slap alligator clips anywhere...if there is something even big enough to clip to.

A lot of folks dropped out of repairing autos as another example: You used to be able to pick up a timing light or change spark plugs and do most of your own repairs. Then computers stepped in and you had to have a diagnostic code reader. "Why is the damn program running the mixture rich?" Then it gets more involved, maybe you replaced the ECM and pretty soon the backyard tinkering was not worth it anymore.

So yeah, nothing was intended to mod - unless a manufacture puts a cable on it and it says "plug in mod here". The fact that adding a mod can damage it is not what defines Spike as a bad system.

#108 5 years ago
Quoted from branlon8:

that's not a good comparison as automobile companies guarantee spare parts availably for 10+ years. It's usually much longer in practice. You also have a vast availability of dealer repair garages and independents. Pinball is nothing like this.

I was speaking in reference to the mods comment...not really even commenting on parts availability, or making a generalized comparison of all aspect of those two hobbies as a whole. The complexity of the electronics, ECM/computerized components has been enough for many auto "hobbyists" to not bother with trying to tinker or add mods to new vehicles. Blow up an ECM that costs $200-$300 or more? ...it doesn't matter that the parts are available. I couldn't replace a single instrument cluster lamp in one of my vehicles, because when I took it apart it was an integrated LED panel system and the ribbon cable disturbed caused even more lamps to fail. No individual lamp to replace, it was a pricey $150-ish panel.

Quoted from Whysnow:

what makes it a bad system is that a .23 cent LED has the ability to render the most important feature of the game (the flippers) weak, inoperable, or blow a $300+ node board.

I'll agree with this statement. I just usually don't consider a lamp change as a "mod" per se. Although at this technology level, they should all be programmable LED with no need to change lamps in the first place.

...I'm not defending Spike at all, I'm just saying that electronic systems are less and less friendly to mods as the electronics industry marches on.

#111 5 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

just to be clear, I am not talking about changing out a led. I am referring to multiple people having trouble with the factory provided LEDs. They are having internal shorts which causes a plethora of down stream issues (node board blowing up, intermittent weak flippers, etc)

Internal shorts is a quality control issue, and the inability to repair them without causing other damage is also a concern. Neither of these is the same as modification ("Any system that is so fragile that adding a single mod can blow it up"). In summary, because serviceability is already is a problem with this system it would be reasonable to infer that attempting to add mods is asking for trouble.

carry on...

#159 5 years ago
Quoted from mbwalker:

We actually use lighted magnifiers that resemble a microscope at work, but obviously designed for looking at small parts. We started out decades ago using 0805 SMD parts (0.080" x 0.050"), then 0603, and now 0402 (0.040" x 0.020") is fairly common. We even have 0201 in some designs, with even smaller (not sure what size) in some of the labs. My hands are steady, but even a 0402 looks like dust at times, given my eyes aren't as sharp nowadays. Can't recall the scope magnification off the top of my head.

We have two at work. One has the monitor, which is great because I can just whip out my cell phone to take photos on the screen. Also a picture of the SMD sizes on the head of match, for reference.

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#161 5 years ago
Quoted from j_m_:

what's the make/model of the one with the monitor? that thing is bad ass!

They're from Vision Engineering, although they are both old models we've had for years. Everything is much newer on their website.

#163 5 years ago
Quoted from j_m_:

wow! that 01005 is tiny!!

They suck to work with too, no matter how much magnification. Don't sneeze, don't even breathe.

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