(Topic ID: 218125)

What are your thoughts on the Spike II system?

By LoserKid_Pinball

5 years ago


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#301 5 years ago

That sounds about right, high voltage hitting the board. Yikes! Wonder how many others out there suffered the same fate...

Good thing they implemented that fix for the diode, though i still can't understand why they didn't just use fuses/circuit breakers/*something*. As another poster said, i guess the board is the "fuse".

#302 5 years ago
Quoted from mario_1_up:

That very well could be what happened. This is the led board that is in the back of the playfield.

Fuses are unnecessary. Clearly.

Looks like it actually caught fire.

#303 5 years ago

This is why you don't secure electronic hardware to a pinball playfield.

#304 5 years ago
Quoted from Lermods:

Im not an EE, but what exactly causes a node board to fail? Is it a power surge, weak components, corruption of files, etc?

I can't comment about Stern or node boards, but I am a design engineer, and deal with high power RF design everyday. There's a long list of ways to cut corners (cheap parts, not derating adequately, just outright not knowing what you are doing, no design margin). But if you want to single out a couple...I'd make it 1) Power derating (i.e. a part can't dissipate the power - the design needs a bigger device [$$$]) and 2) Over voltage (either just not enough margin, or some sort of unexpected transient). Just touching some of the heat sinks and components in a 90's pinball machine tells me things are very, very toasty. I have a FLIR camera and have even taken some pics of the electronics. I'd post, but don't want to derail this thread. But holler and I will if anyone is interested.

Some people mentioned a diode failure can cause extensive damage...I'm likely to think that was one that slipped thru the cracks during a design review. Keep in mind I don't design consumer (where you probably count every 0.1 cent), so maybe I'm wrong.

A lot of designs (including mine) are based on simulations. That can be taken three ways: 1) A rock solid design that might last long after I'm gone., or 2) They used the simulation to cut everything to the bare minimum and it works ...barely., 3) Or they did a lousy simulation and don't realize it.

Just my 2 cents guys, for what it's worth.

#305 5 years ago
Quoted from Bendit:

Is it a cost thing? Is it cheaper in 2018 to make boards with flea testicles on them?

Yes.

Size of board directly relates to cost.
How the board can be assembled and soldered.... directly relates to cost.

A board that can be assembled completely by automation, baking and flow soldering is cheaper to produce than one that takes both automation and manual assembly.

#306 5 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Yes.
Size of board directly relates to cost.
How the board can be assembled and soldered.... directly relates to cost.
A board that can be assembled completely by automation, baking and flow soldering is cheaper to produce than one that takes both automation and manual assembly.

Flyn's comment is spot on.

Expanding on his comment...Printed circuit boards are usually part of a 'panel', which is a larger board. Depending on the size of the board, the panel could easily contain dozens of smaller boards, if not more. They don't just make a single board...they populate the entire panel all at once - then cut out the smaller boards. So 'yes', the smaller the parts, the smaller board - and the cheaper the cost (doesn't mean they sell it for less tho!).

15
#307 5 years ago

One of the biggest design failures of Stern SPIKE is lack of primary fusing.

We have had 6 examples in the past 2 years where a short circuit was able able to bypass the computer "watchdog" software on the MPU and fried node boards. This is not an isolated incident. The example listed above is not that uncommon. It sometimes is just a matter of bad luck, and sometimes you and up spend a lot of money as it can take up more than one board, but usually it stops with the first. The highest cost to memory was around $1000 of boards to the company. Good luck with replacements, if they are unavailable.

If schematics were available, I could with others figure out where loopholes exist in design, but Stern does not want operators discovering where they cut corners, as it might hurt sales. I can't remit the number of operators that simple refuse to buy pinball at all today, simply out of reasons of affordability or market use.

I have been trying to caution others as a collector, enthusiast, and technician of the ongoing pitfalls of this flawed system. I am not "anti Stern", but do know the reason why Stern is doing what they are doing for simple cost reasons.

#308 5 years ago
Quoted from Bendit:

Question: Why would you miniaturize boards if there's room for full-size boards?
I understand the need for small tech. A cell phone has to fit in your pocket.
Pinball cabinets and heads are huge.
Is it a cost thing? Is it cheaper in 2018 to make boards with flea testicles on them?

Manufacture cost. That's it. Spike is way cheaper than SAM or Whitestar.

#309 5 years ago
Quoted from mbwalker:

Some people mentioned a diode failure can cause extensive damage...I'm likely to think that was one that slipped thru the cracks during a design review. Keep in mind I don't design consumer (where you probably count every 0.1 cent), so maybe I'm wrong.
A lot of designs (including mine) are based on simulations. That can be taken three ways: 1) A rock solid design that might last long after I'm gone., or 2) They used the simulation to cut everything to the bare minimum and it works ...barely., 3) Or they did a lousy simulation and don't realize it.
Just my 2 cents guys, for what it's worth.

I'll put my money on door 2.

#310 5 years ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

I'll put my money on door 2.

It's probably a combination of both. They probably caught the problem then fixed it with a diode thinking 'problem fixed'.

But if your referring to my "so maybe I'm wrong" rather than the bean counter comment - yeah, that's a real possibility! lol

#311 5 years ago
Quoted from mbwalker:

or 2) They used the simulation to cut everything to the bare minimum and it works ...barely.

Yup, this one (in my opinion). It seems to be marginal, but functional in every way. And it’s a nice revenue stream later. A marginal component of the system with only one source of replacement? Step 4: Profit.

#312 5 years ago

It's not as if Stern is hurting for cash as the pinball market is taking off. Very puzzling that Stern would make decisions based on cost alone to make a quick buck in the short term when successful business models plan for for the longer term. The reasonable conclusion is planned obsolescence.

#313 5 years ago
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

If Stern stops producing replacement boards which they already have for WWE and KISS (less than three years later), owners.

Think it would make things a lot easier if someone started selling stern parts (nodes specifically) via a website. Going through distributors to get spare boards kind of suck.
Yes you can get some stuff from marco, but half the time they are out of stock. I've asked them about several nodes and they said the same thing, their trying to get them. This is even for more recent games. Getting them from you distro can take time...and if they are on backorder, you have to keep pestering the distro which I don't like doing.

If you send stern an email asking if they have a part they just ignore you, believe me I've done it several times.
Be even better if someone kept up with selling parts long after the game is off the line (kind of like planetary does with B/W games). Sucks ass paying that much for new nodes, but we don't have much of a choice right now.

#314 5 years ago
Quoted from Lermods:

This is what I heard too. If a short is detected, the board shuts down. Once the short is cleared it comes back on. I don't think shorts are the issue, though. Im not an EE, but what exactly causes a node board to fail? Is it a power surge, weak components, corruption of files, etc?

It's supposed to shut off the affected node board via overcurrent or short.
my node 8 kept resetting due to a intermittent short.
Sometimes this doesn't happen, which is when you need to shell out 300 bucks for a new one.
Think what xTheBlackKnightx said makes sense about the watchdog circuit failing. Then again any number of things could go wrong, it's electronics.

#315 5 years ago

So if the reports about Gomez’s comments are accurate, the schematics are actually coming soon. I don’t really think schematics are the answer like others have suggested. Skills gap will still exist as fewer people have the skills / equipment to work on these boards. But maybe the schematics will make reproductions easier and cheaper.

#316 5 years ago
Quoted from kermit24:

I don’t really think schematics are the answer like others have suggested.

And I don't really believe what Gomez says.

#317 5 years ago
Quoted from hocuslocus:

Think it would make things a lot easier if someone started selling stern parts (nodes specifically) via a website. Going through distributors to get spare boards kind of suck.

Because my node board was free when I went through my distro.

Are your actually paying for node boards?

#318 5 years ago
Quoted from mbwalker:

It's probably a combination of both. They probably caught the problem then fixed it with a diode thinking 'problem fixed'.
But if your referring to my "so maybe I'm wrong" rather than the bean counter comment - yeah, that's a real possibility! lol

I am pretty sure the diode in question is a schottky diode which is a major part of the switching down regulator (48v to Vcc). The diode is packaged in a TO220 through- hole package which contained "thinner than normal" leads. Package vibrates, lead fractures, circuit fails.

#319 5 years ago
Quoted from CactusJack:

I am pretty sure the diode in question is a schottky diode which is a major part of the switching down regulator (48v to Vcc). The diode is packaged in a TO220 through- hole package which contained "thinner than normal" leads. Package vibrates, lead fractures, circuit fails.

Hmmm.... Are the node boards isolated (vibration) from the PF?

So if the diode fails, does the regulator the spit out 48V instead of Vcc?

#320 5 years ago

Soooooo, why aren’t there any fusing mods available for Spike games? I have circuit breakers of various size for when I am troubleshooting, and those are pretty sweet.

I have a GB and will have a Maiden at some point, but my Stern collection will have brakes pumped after that.

#321 5 years ago
Quoted from desertT1:

Soooooo, why aren’t there any fusing mods available for Spike games?

SEE:Lack of schematics for spike node boards.

#322 5 years ago
Quoted from mbwalker:

Hmmm.... Are the node boards isolated (vibration) from the PF?
So if the diode fails, does the regulator the spit out 48V instead of Vcc?

They aren't. That's why I went ahead and rubber mounted them.

#323 5 years ago
Quoted from CactusJack:

I am pretty sure the diode in question is a schottky diode which is a major part of the switching down regulator (48v to Vcc). The diode is packaged in a TO220 through- hole package which contained "thinner than normal" leads. Package vibrates, lead fractures, circuit fails.

This is a very valid point and something that all Pinball manufactures are forced to be flawed using lead free solder.
ALL Pinball builders/manufactures have no choice but to jump through all the RohS hoops now to remain compliant.

https://www.electronicsweekly.com/news/design/legislation/lead-free-soldering-means-changes-2005-03/

Cold joints on lead free solder are all too common. Vibration will exaggerate these solder fractures

Tech has come so far now circuit fail with remote access/ diagnostics are possible.

If any manufacturer want to go next level, get the WiFi on !

Spike 3 deserves WiFi and Bluetooth.

I understand manufacturer requirement for profit somehow justifies hardware needs to be small and cheap.

Pinball is a niche market and integrity is critical.

So...............

Stern Engineers, You guys are great.
Please consider extra protection, ( Electronics )
You have room to move, Use it.

I am sure you have already considered the stresses of coil shock and vibration under playfield.
Understand you are limited to budget constraints.

bus system is a no brainer, Great call ! perhaps consider re-locating most electronics in head where less vibration occurs ?
Mmm, ol school

Just please give us a serviceable product with schematics.

#324 5 years ago
Quoted from RA77:

This is a very valid point and something that all Pinball manufactures are forced to be flawed using lead free solder.
ALL Pinball builders/manufactures have no choice but to jump through all the RohS hoops now to remain compliant.
https://www.electronicsweekly.com/news/design/legislation/lead-free-soldering-means-changes-2005-03/
Cold joints on lead free solder are all too common. Vibration will exaggerate these solder fractures

They design around lead free solder, or should be, and have for years. That's no excuse.

#325 5 years ago

I don't think it was the solder breaking in these instances. The actual leg on the package breaks from what I understand.

I would also be cautious using rubber to try and dampen the vibration. Because of the type of vibration this is, rubber could actually amplify it.

#326 5 years ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

Because of the type of vibration this is, rubber could actually amplify it.

Wha? Could you elaborate?

#327 5 years ago
Quoted from Bendit:

Wha? Could you elaborate?

I don't really have any information to back that up with regards to Spike II. Just from my own past experience, depending on a lot of factors, certain types of lower frequency forced vibration can actually be amplified by a rubber mount. I would guess the vibrations that the diode are experiencing are not high frequency vibrations.

Without spending too long on google:

https://earglobal.com/media/9885/basicsvibrationisolationelastomericmaterials.pdf

"Isolation mounts reduce the transmission of energy from one body to another by providing a resilient connection between them. Selecting an improper mount for an application, however, can actually make the problem worse. The incorrect mount may reduce the high frequency vibration, but resonant conditions at lower frequencies can actually amplify the induced vibration. During an impact, the mount deflects and returns some of the energy by rebounding. Preventing this energy return can extend product life"

My point being, I would follow the Stern service bulletin exactly to prevent the diode from breaking, and not try to get creative beyond that.

#328 5 years ago

I used elastic isolation mounts specific to electronic components used in drones. They are designed for this. In addition, the cables connected to the board dampen out any lower frequency vibrations.

#329 5 years ago
Quoted from D-Gottlieb:

I used elastic isolation mounts specific to electronic components used in drones. They are designed for this. In addition, the cables connected to the board dampen out any lower frequency vibrations.

I feel your mods could either help or hurt, flip of a coin.

If there are part leads that are hanging out then giving them mechanical support (silicon?) would help.

#330 5 years ago
Quoted from mcbPalisade:

I feel your mods could either help or hurt, flip of a coin.
If there are part leads that are hanging out then giving them mechanical support (silicon?) would help.

The lightweight nature of the parts susceptible to the lead fracture have vibration moments in tune with the shocks transmitted through the playfield during play. While the boards in my spike machine have the zip tie securement from the factory, I took an extra step that I feel will prevent any potential vibration damage to the other transistors and components.

#331 5 years ago

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06ZXT21DX/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00

They screw right into the holes left by the screws. Then I used some half inch long machine screws through the plastic standoffs.

#332 5 years ago
Quoted from D-Gottlieb:

The lightweight nature of the parts susceptible to the lead fracture have vibration moments in tune with the shocks transmitted through the playfield during play. While the boards in my spike machine have the zip tie securement from the factory, I took an extra step that I feel will prevent any potential vibration damage to the other transistors and components.

D-G,

The lightweight nature of SMD parts is actually what helps prevent problems vs leaded parts. Also, thermally - IF (capitalized on purpose) done correctly- SMD actually helps because of a typically improved thermal path of the part. I know that wasn't part of the discussion, but it is a side benefit. If the mass is nil, then that helps eliminates the issue since it raises the resonant frequency. They will not be susceptible as much to low frequency vibration and shock. But it's always a good idea to isolate resonances. In other words - if rubber grommets isolate the the boards, then the grommets should eliminate the resonant frequencies (i.e. a coil firing) that cause problems (i.e. you are preventing the parts from vibration in the first place). However, and as Wolf correctly pointed out, the EE and ME designers need to be aware of the frequency that they are trying to eliminate. Physical placement of the grommets is important (are they far apart or close together?). Mounting holes closer together will raise the resonant frequency vs. ones that are spaced far apart which lowers the resonant frequency. If Stern or others are not isolating the PC boards, then I would be worried over the long term. A zip tie can can actually induce a problem vs. shock mounting ony w/rubber grommets since it changes the resonant frequency. Generically speaking, I'd stick with grommets alone, nothing else.

There is absolutely no doubt that SMD parts are fine. But (and that's a big 'BUT'), you need to design the PCB board and mounting hardware to prevent issues. I deal with SMD parts and vibration to an extreme (think in the context of engine vibration related on an airborne platform) without an issue. Far more severe than a pinball machine. But I doubt Stern or other vendors have the capabilities to analyze the scenario correctly. I would think it's more of a 'seat of the pants' design (i.e. it worked before so it must be OK) when it comes to pinball machines.

In my line of work - SMD provides better performance, both electrically and mechanically, than thru hole almost w/o exception. I just can't use thru hole parts and get the same performance...period. But that isn't as much of an issue with a pinball machine.

Apologies for getting wordy - I tried to keep it simple, almost to a fault. While I don't design pinball machines - the rules still apply. In the end it's just frequency vs. isolation at the frequency that can cause an issue. Your comment "The lightweight nature of the parts susceptible to the lead fracture have vibration moments in tune with the shocks transmitted through the playfield during play." is a perfectly worded assessment.

On the solder topic mentioned by others: I still use lead based solder simply due to the fact it is not susceptible to the tin whisker issue over time (i.e think a decade or longer). But I believe consumer things live by different design rules than I deal with, especially with solder.

If I wanted to word the long winded statement above to the bare bones it would be this: If a board resonates at xxxHz, then you design the isolation hardware to eliminate xxxHz - issue solved.

#333 5 years ago
Quoted from mcbPalisade:

I feel your mods could either help or hurt, flip of a coin.
If there are part leads that are hanging out then giving them mechanical support (silicon?) would help.

Yep - Mechanical support...a shot of RTV (silicone) to help keep them in place is a good suggestion. It would change the resonant frequency, hopefully to the frequency that is not inherent in the game.

#334 5 years ago

The components that concern me are the ones elevated off the board on leads, not the smds. The diode that has been identified as a possible trouble spot is next to a row of transistors and Stern's fix is to zip tie the diode to the nearest transistor. The diode has 2 leads while the transistor has 3 and has more ability to survive vibration. Placing silicone on the components is a problem because airflow is needed to keep them cool.

#335 5 years ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

SEE:Lack of schematics for spike node boards.

and the lack of full restore images / firmware files.

#336 5 years ago
Quoted from Joe_Blasi:

and the lack of full restore images / firmware files.

And manuals describing the function trees that comprise the service menus. Pretty basic stuff. Figure it out yourself.

#337 5 years ago
Quoted from mcbPalisade:

And manuals describing the function trees that comprise the service menus. Pretty basic stuff. Figure it out yourself.

These are pretty straight-forward though, and often change based on firmware changes - so this section will end up almost always being outdated in a physical or even stored copy.

Keeping manuals current for the services menus is significantly less important to me personally, when compared to schematics / hardware documentation.

#338 5 years ago
Quoted from D-Gottlieb:

...Placing silicone on the components is a problem because airflow is needed to keep them cool.

Good point!

That is a valid concern. There's even some thermally conductive (and electrical insulating) material meant to secure and help get the heat out at the same time. If interested, look up 'Sil Pad' and 'Gap Pad' (but I don't recall if there's a version that secures a part) Down side is a person would now be transferring the heat to perhaps to a PWB which is what the designers were trying to avoid in the first place!

As I mentioned, zip ties can even cause problems. Without a zip tie - the part moves at it's natural resonance and apparently breaks. With a zip tie to the transistor - if the transistor resonates (and it does), then that motion can be transferred to the diode...still resulting in a failure, but maybe it would take a longer time to fail. Or on the flip side - now the diode secured to the transistor can cause the transistor to fail prematurely since the diode is causing the transistor to vibrate. Unfortunately, just speculation. I guess time will tell, and perhaps the fix is just fine - at least there's now five leads keeping things in check.

Getting rid of heat and minimizing vibration are pesky little critters, aren't they? Best to do it right in the first place.

#339 5 years ago

WOW!
From the sounds of it, Stern has at least pulled in 5-10k gross off this node board scheme...
Well played...

#340 5 years ago

Point being that (no so basic) physics clearly explain why smt is far less prone to problems with vibrations. It has to do with how the forces scale. Intertia scales faster than any other, making it a non problem in the world of small things. Smt is the way to go. Problems occur in discrete components, as we see above.

The documentation does remain a problem, but smt surely isn't.

-1
#341 5 years ago
Quoted from Kobaja:

Point being that (no so basic) physics clearly explain why smt is far less prone to problems with vibrations. It has to do with how the forces scale. Intertia scales faster than any other, making it a non problem in the world of small things. Smt is the way to go. Problems occur in discrete components, as we see above.
The documentation does remain a problem, but smt surely isn't.

SMT is fine, but its also the implementation as well. As spike progresses we should see the stability get better, like in the SAM games. as long as stern is willing to make it right in the mean time, It's hard to get to mad at the system as a whole. Using SMT on the regular is the future and the tech is usually to costly to repair for most industries, hints why it's called throw away tech.

Usually that means replacements would be cheaper, since the components are cheaper and there is almost no drilling required. This is my opinion, but I think we won't reap the benefits of cheaper after market parts because the R&D cost of spike and it's not sold to millions like televisions or cars. Maybe if they sold 5 times as many, but even then who knows. or/and stern is just trying to make as much money as they can while they can. So when the next dip in the economy hits or deeproot or someone else starts becoming a real competitor they will have no problem surviving.

Let's face it, you have to be well of in the first place to afford these machines. Most people would bitch and complain about buying a new $1000 dollar cpu board, but in the end you'll buy it. Then you'll forget that you were pissed and buy the next new stern that comes of the line in the fall. I'm sure stern knows their customer base fairly well at this point, to know what boundaries they can push. If these machines were primarily being sold to operators, I doubt we would be going down this path.

Kind of the same thing for most service techs coming to your house or business. A lot of people just pay the price and don't think twice about it. I'm not saying everyone, but a good portion of uninformed individuals who are unaware of how much a 2" T PVC coupler, a compressor or a industrial timer cost. It helps having general knowledge about all things.

#342 5 years ago
Quoted from hocuslocus:

Let's face it, you have to be well of in the first place to afford these machines. Most people would bitch and complain about buying a new $1000 dollar cpu board, but in the end you'll buy it. Then you'll forget that you were pissed and buy the next new stern that comes of the line in the fall.

Recockulus.
Again, the only reason I'd just "buy one in the end" is because it would be a bricked piece of shit worth thousands of dollars I need to sell to recoup my loses form the goddamn board.

#343 5 years ago
Quoted from mbwalker:

D-G,
. Generically speaking, I'd stick with grommets alone, nothing else.
.

The only place I saw zip ties were for the 2 pin through hole component ( looked like a transistor)

so you would recommend rubber gromments on the mounting points for the node boards?
maybe a rubber washer?

#344 5 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

Recockulus.
Again, the only reason I'd just "buy one in the end" is because it would be a bricked piece of shit worth thousands of dollars I need to sell to recoup my loses form the goddamn board.

still, you'd buy it. what other choice do you have.

#345 5 years ago
Quoted from hocuslocus:

still, you'd buy it. what other choice do you have.

Not buy a spike game in the first place?

#346 5 years ago
Quoted from hocuslocus:

The only place I saw zip ties were for the 2 pin through hole component ( looked like a transistor)
so you would recommend rubber gromments on the mounting points for the node boards?
maybe a rubber washer?

A rubber washer will do very little to isolate the board from vibration transfer. You still have a rigid mount to transfer shock. As was discussed, a rubber grommet may or may not help but I personally feel, it would be prefered to rigid mountings.

But there can still be motion of the entire board, so any large physical component (TO220 or leaded capacitor) may still resist movement and ultimately fatigue the leads or solder joint. Therefore, they should be mechanically secured in some way.

#347 5 years ago
Quoted from hocuslocus:

still, you'd buy it. what other choice do you have.

Easy enough to not buy it. I'm out on spike unless the game is the equivalent of a metallica for me. A theme I love with great game play too.

#348 5 years ago
Quoted from hocuslocus:

The only place I saw zip ties were for the 2 pin through hole component ( looked like a transistor)
so you would recommend rubber gromments on the mounting points for the node boards?
maybe a rubber washer?

Hocus.

I'd hate to steer you wrong with less than perfect advice that I'm confident in. All my yacking is common sense based on years of design, plus I have the ME's working beside me for a proper solution, and they have the education, measurement capabilities, and simulation tools to back it up. I might know what to do, but the ME's are the ones that come up w/the thumbs up or thumbs down. While a grommet might help, we wouldn't be sure if it was the right grommet for the job.

Take a look around and see what the pinball manufactures used. I know on my JD, Bally eventually used some sort of vibration isolation on the ball trough PC boards that had the optos after the hard mounted ones started breaking - maybe you can snoop around Marco's and find the part. That would be a good starting point rather than just going to the hardware store and buying grommets off the shelf. But large parts like a TO-220 or a leaded resistor mounted high off the board isn't a good comparison to smaller optos. Last thing I would want is to have you do more damage than good because of what I said. These are expensive toys and I don't want the bill if it breaks!

Cactus - Good comment about securing. I've seen grommets that have a metal sleeve which provides a secure mounting yet provides isolation. If I were to use grommets, that's the path I would try. Something like this:
grommet (resized).pnggrommet (resized).png

#349 5 years ago
Quoted from BC_Gambit:

Not buy a spike game in the first place?

guess that's an option to .
wish I had your will power, damn you stern!!!

Quoted from mbwalker:

Something like this:

so like a gromment with a sleeve.
ebay.com link: Gas Tank Mounts Harley Softail Gas Tank Mounts Rubber Grommets 6 Pack
maybe the I.D. is to big, but I get the idea. I'll give it a shot and no worries, you can't learn/succeed if your not willing to make mistakes.

Maybe doing this with the GI's around the flipper area, Feel like I'm constantly replacing the LED's in that area.

#350 5 years ago

Yes mbwalker. Stern used (and still may do?) A similar part On their trough opto boards.
515-0174-00 (resized).jpg515-0174-00 (resized).jpg

Which makes you wonder why they omitted them for node boards.

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Classic Game Rooms
Pinball Machine
7,800 (OBO)
Machine - For Sale
Melbourne Beach, FL
$ 69.99
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Lighted Pinball Mods
Toys/Add-ons
From: $ 20.00
Cabinet - Other
Filament Printing
Other
$ 15.00
Cabinet - Sound/Speakers
Gweem's Mods
Sound/Speakers
$ 22.95
Playfield - Protection
SilverBall Designs
Protection
From: $ 99.99
Cabinet - Other
Lighted Pinball Mods
Other
11,500
Machine - For Sale
Ashburn, VA
$ 16.50
Lighting - Led
Lermods
Led
From: $ 65.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
arcade-cabinets.com
Toys/Add-ons
From: $ 6.00
11,495
Machine - For Sale
Linn Creek, MO
$ 15.00
Playfield - Other
YouBentMyWookie
Other
From: $ 1.49
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Daddio's 3D Printed Mods
Toys/Add-ons
$ 39.95
Playfield - Plastics
Hookedonpinball.com
Plastics
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