Thanks, I will try it. I appreciate your help.

Based on this conversation I assume RSP-500-48 is an equal replacement for the 011-5003-00 power supply in the manual?

Yep.

You can find them for around $90.

Thanks

Sorry forgot the link: https://www.jameco.com/z/RSP-500-48-MEAN-WELL-AC-to-DC-Switching-Enclosed-Power-Supply-Single-Output-with-PFC-Function-48V-10-5A-504W_2198014.html

I love the SPIKE system and never had an issue. SPIKE had manufacturing issues at first but at this point it is way overblown and has no meaning when buying any of the games in the last couple of years and the new games. SPIKE is a distributed system. Instead of having driver boards in the backbox and miles of wire, the driver boards are where they belong: on the playfield right near the coils and lights with really short data cables and wiring. It is literally that simple, it is mostly the location of the boards that has changed, not the theory of operation.

Also, the idea that SPIKE is not field serviceable is BS and here is why. SAM driver boards had a lot of surface mount (SMT) parts, but the transistors and parts that typically blow up in pinball machines were all "through hole" soldered to allow tech in the field to easily replace them. SPIKE node boards have a lot of surface mount (SMT) parts, but the transistors and parts that typically blow up in pinball machines are all "through hole" soldered to allow tech in the field to easily replace them. I haven't had a transistor fail in a SPIKE game yet. When one does, I will pull the board out and swap the transistor the same as I would do on any game since 1978.
SAM (resized).jpgspike (resized).jpg

I’d rather have node boards away from the coils and flippers which are dust (metallic dust) and vibration machines. We’ve had board on the playfield for decades but they were not SMT, they were not ROHS and they were not inches from the flippers. All 3 of those things sound like a disaster for being prone to failure. HUO might be a safer bet for delaying issues compared to location games.

It's a good thing you're not a researcher. You can't get any worse than a sample source of one.

The primary argument here is about time. Electronics fail faster with more shock and vibration. This is common knowledge. These boards will fail.

It is completely incorrect statements like the ones above that continue to advance these misconceptions. Every manufacturer now has node boards including, AP, CGC and the light boards on JJP. There have been circuit boards on the playfield inches from coils for decades. Look at the opto driver boards on WPC games. They failed because of poor design of power resistors that got so hot the affected the solder joints. SMT is way less susceptible to vibration and shock. Not to mention there is very little vibration and shock on a playfield compared to most applications of this automotive technology. The automobile industry has completely revolutionized these parts and boards for reliability.

Good thing pinside wasn't in full stroke back in the 90s when every single TZ, TAF and other games of the era were suffering resets because of poorly designed power and CPU circuits and the GI connectors were all burning until they were black and the wires fell out.

So far I haven’t been too impressed by them.

324E76F4-9581-44AE-9FDE-61ABED13DFE5 (resized).jpeg

What exactly are you claiming as it relates to Spike? How much time to failure compared with other applications? Show your data supporting Spike has more shock and vibration.

You’re making such a vague statement anyone can make it fit their situation. Reminds me of an astrologer.

Spike 2 debuted in 2017 with Aerosmith. Spike 1 was WWE, GoT, etc and debuted in 2015. The CPU board definitely changed with Spike 2, but no idea what the changes were. When Stern says Spike 2 needs Class 10, I'll take their word for it.

I'd like to say it's obvious because that's a FORD, but all car manufacturers are worse than they used to be, IMO. FORD is worse than most, but none of them have anything to be gloating about.

Yes, that's just Stern's part number. They can't even be bothered to update the picture in their manual, which is of the 300W power supply they abandoned. RSP-500-48 is the correct OEM number for it.

CHEVY is nothing to write home about...
JUNK! ... Now back to pinball

Thank you!

We have a Chevy Volt we took a chance on (knowing Chevy sucked) and we HATE it, so no disagreement there, either. We hate our Honda now because of reliability issues. My buddy hates his Tesla S performance model because their software update broke HIS DASH and they can't fix it. All automakers seem to have quality and reliability issues compared to last century as cars get more complex.

Incorrect. Batman ‘66 was the first and it was in 2016.

Haha yeah, reliable piece parts are meaningless when you put them in a poor design, don't do your manufacturing right or write software that bricks the unit.

Ah, yes, right. I blocked out the whole terrible SLE experience I had. But that was very late Dec 2016. Literally days before 2017.

I asked this in the Maiden thread but, can you go back to a previous code after updating to the latest ?

Yes.

Shock 100% contributes to and speeds up electronics failure. You seriously need data to prove this? Who sounds like the astrologer here?

If you want to support throw away culture in the name of progress, go for it. I'm just going to state the other side of the argument. Stern is cost-cutting along with innovating. Consumers will suffer, primarily because they will not release schematics, something every other pin company does. If we could repair spike 2 boards (which will fail, whether you like it or not), I'd be content.

They have released schematics, and there are those that can repair them already. Are you content?

No one claimed otherwise. https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman

Again, state your claim as it relates to Spike II. Are you claiming it has more shock, a different kind of shock, a higher failure rate, a faster failure rate...? And show your data to back up your claims.

If you provide no evidence you’re dismissed with no evidence and no one learns anything. Might as well go shout at the clouds.

the hypothesis is that components (such as node boards) on the underside of the playfield will experience more shock/vibrations, etc., than those in the backbox. Seems reasonable to me, but sure, one could measure freqencies, amplitudes as a function of time, game status, etc. MIt might provide additional insight.

And any repair data is going to be anecdotal because only the manufacturer will have a full set, if at all. They have no need or motivation to share this. Therefore, insisting on being shown data is rather pointless. I don’t imagine distributors of pins will provide data either. Further up in this thread are comments of folks who I assume are operators or repair technicians regarding Spike 2‘s reliability. This is probably the best available source of data, but it will, of course, always be colored by their perceptions and individual experiences.

He is someone with just enough knowledge to be dangerous. The point he is trying to make is the node boards are closer to the solenoids and therefore will experience higher levels of shock and vibration than if they are in the backbox. While the levels may be a little higher this argument is flawed and doesn't see the forest through the trees because the shock levels a PC board on standoffs in a pinball machine experiences are relatively trivial compared to what modern PCBs are able to withstand. The flipper mechs, etc are all connected to the playfield and the sheer mass of the playfield acts like a massive sink for the shock from the mechanisms. Same concept as a large heat sink. Sure there is vibration and shock in a pinball machine but in real life the only places shock is bad is the actual coil stops, VUKs and in the ball trough when the balls slam into them. Even on a ball trough, SMD optos and rubber standoffs fix the issues that the WPC games of the mid 90s had. If you attached a coil stop right directly to the middle of circuit board, then I would be worried about damage from shock. With the mechs and SPIKE boards mounted separately on the playfield, actual damage from shock would be negligible and therefore would simply be factored into the general fatigue life calculations for reliability calculations.

My point is the SPIKE modules mounted on standoffs on the bottom of the playfield would have no higher failure rate than in the backbox. Location of the nodes allows for removal of the miles of cabling and connectors increases reliability and ease of manufacture. This is why ALL manufacturers are going to this method. This is the natural progression for reliability, manufacturability and ease of service. I'm sure there were people trying to make similar claims as EMs were giving way to SS games in the late 70s. Obviously there were growing pains there too that people latched onto to make their points haha.

I just got a Deadpool Premium yesterday! OMG SPIKE II the horror, lol......It’s insanely fun to play. I’m going to play the shit out of it and enjoy the best era of pinball ever, ya’ll can go on and keep worrying about electronic vibrations and shock.

You're arguing with yourself. My point was and always will be that the components will eventually fail and that Stern should provide detailed schematics. If they have, like someone suggested, is love to see them.

Dangerous. Lol. Gtfoh.

If Spike and the nodes were a real issue, this thread would be 10,00 posts long.
(They have made TONS of Spike games)
Fact is, they are just not failing very often.
So, it’s 500-ish posts, mostly complaints of replacement cost, serviceability, and speculation and fear of failure.
And mostly fueled by the typical Stern-bash guys.
And that video is just annoying.

I'll say it again, failing electronics is not speculation. It is a guarantee. The guy posting on YouTube is simply stating a reality. All you guys with your new games can celebrate them all you like. Your node boards will fail. Maybe less so than previous tech and maybe they will last much longer, but they will fail and current replacement costs will come into play. And there are no detailed schematics for repair that I've seen.

How many dead or replaced SAM or whitestar boards have you seen? Even across all of pinside this is like spotting big foot. They were really reliable systems that really only had failures in the solenoid circuits.. which everyone knows how to fix. "Does anyone have a SAM CPU?" or "how much for a SAM CPU?" are just topics you almost never see.

Contrast that with Node and LED drivers... they simply are a much more common problem. Due to both failures, and failures people can't easily address on their own (due to lack of documentation or type of components).

This is a repeated topic because of Stern's CRAPPY support for their new platform
- Years without documentation
- Even now documentation is sub-par
- The lack of an effective advance replacement model from the manufacturer
- The lack of board compatibility
- High replacement costs
- Lack of diagnostics

They could have made the Spike platform a god send for Operators and home owners.. like they promised. Instead, they made all the decisions that just help their assembly - and have hid from their lack of field support for the platform.

Luckily I was only having issues with the 26 dollar one (5v and 12v). Even if the 48 volt one was having the same issues my other one had, it wouldn't of been noticeable since it's for coils.

I'll agree with about 80% of that. The point about the documentation people overlook is that it's incomplete (lots of very different revisions and board changes through the spike evolution are missing) and the custom programmed node chips are a "black box" that makes it almost impossible to troubleshoot (practically speaking, actually impossible) and Stern isn't sharing that. I can see why, but they can't do that AND THEN give NO GOOD diagnostics built in to make up for the lack of sharing. They have to do one or the other, or they are just dicks.

That said, we put out a lot of Spike and Spike 2 games when I was helping the local OP here and had zero hard node board failures and just a couple that were transistors I could fix. Chaz (RIP) was always great about support in or out of the technical short warranty.

Really if Stern just upped their documentation game and redid the system menu so it was native to Spike and not a port from Sam/Whitestar, giving it real diagnostics specific to spike that would create a lot of goodwill they need.

It's actually even worse if they fail seldom.

All components in a pinball machine needs to be standardized and easily replaceable. It seems to me spike is quite the opposite

I think there were maybe 4 or 5 different cpu board revisions. It was never clear to me if you could just the later spike 2 boards with earlier releases like batman. I asked Chas, but he never got back to me about it.

There is a cpu board schematic on their site... think it was named fuzzy bear or something I have no idea what game it was for.

A company that actually cared would have an advance replace system for registered operators at the minimum... and for their distributors.

I mean.. they pitched the advantage of the system was the ease of swapping boards out! Yet they make that process at PITA because you can't swap most of them... you can't really stock your own spares... and they don't offer quick turnaround for their commercial customers. It's a freaking joke. Amauter level shit... but they get away with it because they really lack true competition.

https://sternpinball.com/support/

Right here.

I'am 43 years in the pinball hobby, repaired almost every brand, collected/owned hundred+ pinball machines. Building 3 machine's myself.
And now for the first time bought a Stern spike 2 (JP)
Always was very sceptic about spike because I had a highway FT with a bricked node board (my wife fixed it).
Now with Spike 2 i took the gamble because
Spike is a few years on the market now.
It like it a lot and a spare node cost only 178 dollar if I can't repair it. So 200 buck for a 8k machine isn't a big deal. Cpu is 1300,thats very steep. Maybe they comes cheaper in the future.
System looks mutch robust than I thought.
A old tech like myself can't fix smd so my brain has some resistance for smd pinball machines hahaha. I'am happy with my Stern JP, glad to have it.

Cpu is 1300??? when you get an P-ROC and use an full pc (with more ram / storage / CPU then spike) for the same price or less.

I had an LED go out on my KISS pro. Being a novice I was a little miffed to find out that to “replace a bulb” it meant replacing the whole board and a ridiculous cost of $259.

Needless to say, after watching a couple of YouTube videos on SMT repair, I thought a repair was do-able. I invested in a hot air solder machine and syringe of low-temp solder on Amazon for a grand total of around 75 bucks.

Repair successful, and easy, and relatively quick.

Obviously if one of the boards packed with chips and other sundry electronic gadgetry went out, most of us would be in over our head and be SOL. But, I was encouraging that simpler repairs ARE possible for even novice level enthusiasts.

Forgot to mention another discovery - all of that black crud that you clean off of your playfield? Well, it gets underneath too. More importantly, on your LEDs.

“LEDs will never get dim”. Well, then why are mine getting dimmer?

The LED chips are supposed to be yellow in color. When I took my board off, my chips were varying shades of gray, covered with the crud. A toothpick, a small cotton cleaning square and some patience and the LED chips are now yellow again.

Plastic lenses above the chips need attention too. Some almost perfectly clean. Others covered in a disturbing amount of the crud.

Enjoy cleaning!

Yep good point. If your inserts get dim is dirt covering them 99% of the time.

Does anyone know of a good sm iron or soldering station for these types of repiars?

terryb covers a bit about hot air stations and SM components in his soldering guide: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/terrybs-soldering-guide-part-1

Here’s the one I bought:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B085ZWXYFJ/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_DfkaGbZ3Q48SD

Obviously this is a “combo” soldering kit which you wouldn’t need if you already had a nice “traditional” soldering iron setup. I didn’t. I still had some cheapo Mickey Mouse soldering iron from Menards, so this setup was a nice upgrade to my repairing operations.

Here is the soldering paste I got:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B017RSGPI8/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_kikaGbB0MB70B

Hope this helps.

For parts with not a of leads, just using two irons works as well. Even for a part like a SOIC-8 (small IC w/eight leads), its rather easy. Have done it for ages.

But a hot air gun is a nice investment too!

For those wanting to practice on something other than a $6K pin, this is a nice option:

https://www.amazon.com/Gikfun-Beginner-Components-Practice-Soldering/dp/B01HPSRXJ0/ref=sr_1_2_sspa
pasted_image (resized).png

Another note about the LEDs. Call me paranoid but they can dim out over time. Some LED strips under the kitchen cabinets I put up maybe 4 years ago that I leave burn 24/7 have a few beads just recently going dim or burned out and is similar LED bead tech to what stern is using in some places. Except for flashers I dialed back all the LED brightness in the adjustment mode for my Spike games. GI and inserts like 80%. The head GI way down (helps glare too). Less current over time should help them stay cool and last longer.

Imagine. "I need a new CPU board because the built in GI LEDs are burned out". Not saying "its going to happen" but running them cooler should help longevity.

Overall my opinion on spike system has improved. My guess if anything vibration is probably going to be the long term problem. I think they should look into mounting the playfield node boards with some kind of vibration dampening mounts. Some are right next to a hammering flipper coil that vibrates the node board every time the flipper fires. The lamp boards understandable are not going to match game to game, but the main node boards hopefully they can come up with a single design cross compatible for all games that is reasonably priced.

Yes leds can dim out over the years.
So my inserts and cpu (Blackbox) are set at 50%. So they last mutch longer.
My gi are at 100% because they are replaceable in my JP.

If you have modern leds of good quality they do 50 000hrs at 80%
They should never burn out on a home use machine.