We're in the final stages of a Grand Prix restoration. Check out the thread!
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/cleaning-up-an-old-williams-grand-prix
Here's an unused picture from sanding down the head.
Quoted from HHaase:Soon to start restoring an Apollo Moon Shot rifle game.
Going to be a long process probably.
-Hans
How’s the cabinet? I think it would be somewhat of a tough fix because it’s textured. Does it have the gun?
Quoted from ejacques:Williams San Francisco. Pretty sure someone high tapped it ..man does it play fast.
I had one and it played pretty fast without high tap.
I finally got my 1957 Williams Arrow Head all back together and it plays lightning fast, again no high tap.
You start high tapping a 50 volt Williams that is freshy shopped out and that's when things get stupid fast and plastics get broken.
She's a beauty and a great player. I'm reasonably happy how it turned out considering what I started with. Still a few minor details including two spots where there were posts that weren't supposed to be there, then I'll be tearing into the one next to it.
Before-
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After-
Quoted from o-din:She's a beauty and a great player. I'm reasonably happy how it turned out considering what I started with. Still a few minor details including two spots where there were posts that weren't supposed to be there, then I'll be tearing into the one next to
nice work. How do you do your paint? There seems to be so many different ways to approach something like this.
Quoted from Murphdom:nice work. How do you do your paint? There seems to be so many different ways to approach something like this.
Thanks!
I'll be honest, I've always been good with the mechanical stuff, artwork not so much. I had watched a local pinball legend and guru named "The Brush" and he used those small bottles of Testors model paint so that is what I did. Most of the lines on this playfield were still there, so I really needed to mostly take out the planking. Started about a year or so ago.
First I had to remove and reglue the inserts, the ones down the middle I had to replace. Then I mixed and matched paints and repainted by hand with small brushes that entire playfield then would sand it with 800 grit. Probably close to 20 times. The arrows on both the playfield and new targets were very tricky. Did the final topcoat with polykrylic spray. It was a labor of love my friend, and with the glass on I can hardly notice. Looks like a brand new 1957.
I may never put forth that kind of effort again. But it was therapy in a good way.
Painting the two people must have been really hard. Did you mask anything when you painted? You have some steady hands and a lot of patience. Want to come over and do one of mine?
Well, I'm working on a Keeney Poker Face, 1963. Relatively rare game, although no one really knows Keeney's pinball production numbers (they only put out a handful of flipper games, mostly non-flipper/bingo/amusement games). The mechanics are interesting (coil brackets/flipper mechs are screwed into a baseplate as opposed to the playfield - nice touch). Other than that, some of the parts are inferior to counterparts of the big 3, and since there aren't Keeney parts readily available, I've been able to switch out GTB or WMS parts with only minor surgery required occasionally.
Other than that, it's been a fun game to work on. I plan on getting all the mechs tuned tight, and then see if the game's a keeper... if so I'll re-do the cabinet (currently beat to crap) and coin door/legs otherwise it’s on the chopping block!
Next up - not sure ... I have 3 possibilities: I may switch gears and do a SS game (Bally Fathom), or perhaps a Bally Old Chicago or GTB Quick Draw.
17FFC693-49E1-48F3-9669-75A1E5A4BFAB (resized).jpeg40A773C7-381E-45BB-9014-CA7A05E0D307 (resized).jpeg52BF5E99-5B1D-47CE-92D4-7B34CD45A4DD (resized).jpeg77E1602A-8D1C-4116-AA45-C9C027CDE32B (resized).jpeg7C906D0E-AD55-4C0D-9B2D-ED517D9ABE9E (resized).jpeg962AE516-9519-4DBF-A966-5793BEFD9BF2 (resized).jpegQuoted from Murphdom:Painting the two people must have been really hard. Did you mask anything when you painted? You have some steady hands and a lot of patience. Want to come over and do one of mine?
The only thing that got masked were the arrows on the playfield and targets. And they could not be done all at once. Took several masking sessions. The people were not that bad except there was major planking at the chief. The color looks better in person. Somehow the flash washes it out.
With oil based paint, I really had to let it dry good before sanding. A big challenge was around the pop bumpers. And yes, I found out sometimes I have a very steady hand. Most of the time.
Quoted from o-din:She's a beauty and a great player. I'm reasonably happy how it turned out considering what I started with. Still a few minor details including two spots where there were posts that weren't supposed to be there, then I'll be tearing into the one next to it.
Before-
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After-
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OK, Harry. So where did you get the new playfield?
Quoted from Murphdom:How’s the cabinet? I think it would be somewhat of a tough fix because it’s textured. Does it have the gun?
I’m hoping I can find a way to clean the exterior. It’s solid but very yellowed, likely nicotine stains.
The texture paint makes me really want to not re-paint it.
Quoted from HHaase:I’m hoping I can find a way to clean the exterior. It’s solid but very yellowed, likely nicotine stains.
The texture paint makes me really want to not re-paint it.
Word is Krud Kutter works great for that task.
Quoted from HHaase:I’m hoping I can find a way to clean the exterior. It’s solid but very yellowed, likely nicotine stains.
The texture paint makes me really want to not re-paint it.
I'm trying to keep mine original also. I've been using Simple Green and a melamine sponge, and it's been working great. I bought the Simple Green at Lowes. $10.00 and it makes 44 32oz bottles. Slow and steady. Before and After pics.
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Quoted from jrpinball:OK, Harry. So where did you get the new playfield?
I begged Wade Kraus, and got the other two owners of this game on board.
Quoted from o-din:I begged Wade Kraus, and got the other two owners of this game on board.
On that note, it would be great if Wade would do a few more woodrail playfields. I'd be in for an "Ace High".
My Frontiersman has some wear, but not to the point of doing what I did with Arrow Head or really needing a new playfield Just regluing the inserts like on all woodrails I have owned and giving it a good cleaning and wax job.
I tend to look for games that have a decent enough playfield, but a game like Arrow Head, where there may be less then 10 still in existence , I was happy enough to start with a real nice original cabinet and Shay backglass, then bought the repro plastics. Without the plastics, I probably would not have bothered.
To me, Arrow Head is a real turning point game for Williams. And they would keep on getting better.
Quoted from o-din:like Arrow Head, where there may be less then 10 still in existence
Do you really think there are that few still around? I know of someone locally who has one, then mine and yours. Shay has another one (I got mine from him too). Larry Wolfe in W. VA has one. There was one on eBay a while ago. I'll check Pinball Owners.
I'm not saying they grow on trees, but there's gotta be at least maybe 40-50 around I'd imagine. But, maybe not.
I believe mine might have come from Shay as well. It has his glass and I bought it from Don in Beverly Hills when he had several games from him. That Frontiersman of his was super nice but played like crap. Two or three hours and I could have got it working and in tune.
Yes, there are no records or numbers of how many were made, but what is on the internet gives a good idea how many are left. It appears the pop bumpers came in at least two or three different colors, but I like my green.
Yes. There's a debate on what the correct caps are supposed to be.
Mine are reddish with an Indian head cameo on them. Shay says they are correct, but who knows.
Williams may have used other caps in a pinch during production, but those blue ones don't look very good. I have a photo of a game a local guy has owned for probably 30 years or more, and his caps don't have the Indian head on them,
but look like they fit the era. It's a mystery what the correct caps are.
I have been batting it around with ipdb.
Look at the circle on the playfield under your pop bumpers. Mine is white, or off white to match what was there. I believe the ones with red caps, that was a different color. I can't find any other game that 4 green marbled plain caps would have come from. As far as the blue ones that are out there, I have no idea.
If yours have the indian head, that would show they are probably original. Perhaps they decided too much red and too many indian heads and changed it.
The different color circles on the playfield are a clue a change was made.
Quoted from o-din:My Frontiersman has some wear, but not to the point of doing what I did with Arrow Head or really needing a new playfield Just regluing the inserts like on all woodrails I have owned and giving it a good cleaning and wax job.
I tend to look for games that have a decent enough playfield, but a game like Arrow Head, where there may be less then 10 still in existence , I was happy enough to start with a real nice original cabinet and Shay backglass, then bought the repro plastics. Without the plastics, I probably would not have bothered.
To me, Arrow Head is a real turning point game for Williams. And they would keep on getting better.
Would you mind sharing where you got the repro plastics from?
Quoted from o-din:Shay had the plastics for a while, but that was at least a couple years ago.
Thanks. Hopefully he has a set available. It will probably be the catalyst I need to start the restoration process on mine. My playfield makes yours prerestoration look like a 10.
Quoted from stashyboy:Chicago Coin Jet Pilot. The Playfield has seen better days.[quoted image][quoted image]
A few more pics from this project-
20191120_105349 (resized).jpg20191120_171208 (resized).jpg20191120_172706 (resized).jpg20191123_142543 (resized).jpgQuoted from stashyboy:A few more pics from this project-[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
The rock climbing poster. At first I thought it was from the Gunks, but now I'm thinking New River Gorge. Do you happen to know?
I’m considering changing out the light sockets on my Flipperless Bally Rocket so I can add LEDs in the bumpers. The original socket is on the left I would need to change to the one on the right. This way the bulbs could be LED or 44/47 instead of 504s.
B483FD73-883C-4E55-AD53-3BA1DCAC5DE4 (resized).jpeg2F593F20-31AD-4E6B-89E0-D978D160D138 (resized).jpegBAE5BCD7-AEBD-4CC0-B237-F1A06754903C (resized).jpegQuoted from stashyboy:A few more pics from this project-[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
How’s the backglass?
Quoted from Murphdom:How’s the backglass?
Back glass is perfect, it's a reproduction from St Louis ball bowlers. Original was pretty rough.
Quoted from Noobee:Working on a Top Card. Just got the cabinet finished before it turned cold. Just about ready to clear coat...[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
Pretty good work for a newbie!
I have owned most of those titles I see in your current lineup they're all fun. Nice job with the top card Playfield, especially cleaning up the natural wood areas.
Quoted from o-din:Too late to turn back now.
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I’m looking forward to seeing the end result. Mine is dark wood in the areas you sanded. How was yours?I’m wondering if it’s what they used for clear? Or if someone stained it because it’s done really evenly. I’ve found a few other hacks so it’s not out of the realm of possibilities. Under the aprons it looks the same as yours.
I only sanded it because of the upper arch trail, the area around the pop bumpers and some flipper drag, and I want it to look even when I put the topcoat on it. Once the topcoat is applied, it gets not as dark, but dark again. Turned out real good on Arrow Head.
One of my buddies that was over last weekend playing it sent me a message- "I cut my fingerprint off with a circular saw, but I can use my other finger if I can come back and play it" . I put about 10 games on it last night myself. When it scores 500,000 or a million or multiple specials at once, it sure rattles them off fast.
Quoted from Murphdom:Mine is dark wood in the areas you sanded.
I attributed the clear wood areas darkening to moisture exposure. I've changed that opinion due to a few games that have come through my hands in the last couple of years. Now I attribute that darkening to excessive smoke exposure. Which makes sense for many of the games we encounter.
Some of the topcoats whether original or applied after the fact do sometimes darken or yellow whether caused by smoke or not I couldn't tell you. Might even be caused by light exposure. And who knows about wax or cleaners.
But that Plastikote is certainly the most durable finish I have encountered on any EMs and is super tough to get through. Alcohol doesn't faze it either.
Quoted from MikeO:I attributed the clear wood areas darkening to moisture exposure. I've changed that opinion due to a few games that have come through my hands in the last couple of years. Now I attribute that darkening to excessive smoke exposure. Which makes sense for many of the games we encounter.
I would venture to guess smoke and varying light exposure caused a reaction with the wood and with whatever they used to clear it. If it was moisture I think there would be a lot of planking and there isn’t. I threw the idea of stain out there because when I say it’s dark it’s like a cherry stain/mahogany color. It doesn’t look gross or anything it’s just different from anything else I’ve seen. For now I’m just going to clean it up. Later on down the road I will probably use Odins approach.
Quoted from o-din:- "I cut my fingerprint off with a circular saw,
Better keep that quiet, or California might ban circular saws!
Working on a 1970 4 Aces Williams (widebody). The ball is shot into play using the button on the lockdown bar.
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It has 2 stop magnets on top of the playfield. Ball is captured and released into play after bonus points are scored.
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I need a backglass lift trim, mine is missing.
Quoted from BallyCrazy:Working on a 1970 4 Aces Williams (widebody). The ball is shot into play using the button on the lockdown bar.
[quoted image]
It has 2 stop magnets on top of the playfield. Ball is captured and released into play after bonus points are scored.
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
I need a backglass lift trim, mine is missing.
Pretty cool for 1970!
Quoted from BallyCrazy:Working on a 1970 4 Aces Williams (widebody). The ball is shot into play using the button on the lockdown bar.
[quoted image]
It has 2 stop magnets on top of the playfield. Ball is captured and released into play after bonus points are scored.
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I need a backglass lift trim, mine is missing.
Fun player too!
This...
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There's a 60s Williams that has not passed through here yet. A while ago there was a perfect backglass for it on e-bay. Looks like a bit of work there. But that playfield should clean up nicely.
SwingTime is a great AAB game.
Not sure if RonWebb has any repro Backglass left
just checked and looks like you may be in luck
http://pinballglass.homestead.com/
but better act fast.
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