Quoted from tyking:That’s above the playfield right? How do I access them?
The third picture you posted shows the lamp leads going under the metal bracket. 2 leads for each lamp/pop bumper.
Quoted from tyking:That’s above the playfield right? How do I access them?
The third picture you posted shows the lamp leads going under the metal bracket. 2 leads for each lamp/pop bumper.
Once those are de-soldered, slide the lamp socket out from the top, then remove the screws inside the pop.
Quoted from tyking:That’s above the playfield right? How do I access them?
The leads are actually soldered at the bottom. Take the ring and rod out then the pop bumper assembly and then the connections will reveal themselves.
Quoted from tyking:That’s above the playfield right? How do I access them?
Do a search for “Vid’s Guide to rebuilding pop bumpers” it will show you how to remove the pop bumpers.
Alberto
Quoted from EJS:The leads are actually soldered at the bottom. Take the ring and rod out then the pop bumper assembly and then the connections will reveal themselves.
Are they the ones circled in blue?
C92E2534-1F58-46DC-8E5C-732ABEF7C02F (resized).jpegQuoted from tyking:Are they the ones circled in blue?
[quoted image]
You got it!
If you have a pending order with anyone it is probably worth replacing the socket. Not a first choice but new leads could be soldered directly to the bulb if needed.
Quoted from Peruman:Do a search for “Vid’s Guide to rebuilding pop bumpers” it will show you how to remove the pop bumpers.
Alberto
Thanks, lots of good info in there. And another vid thread going strong 7 years later.
Quoted from tyking:That’s above the playfield right? How do I access them?
Underneath. Remove the pops first to get to the leads. Sounds like you could benefit from studying Pinwiki, or Clay's guides.
Quoted from tyking:Thanks, lots of good info in there. And another vid thread going strong 7 years later.
Steve Kulpa has a great step by step w pics on pop rebuilds too - I cant seem to find his website though -
Quoted from tyking:Alright bumpers off. Naphtha and microfiber cloth to prep for touch ups?
[quoted image]
Given the work and info you are going to need. I would suggest starting a new thread. Something like "Royal Flush playfield touch up help". You can get direct feedback help and track from start to finish on a dedicated thread. Which, also will serve as a resource for the someone else's Royal Flush project. I just did a Card Wiz and Royal Flush, and cleared the RF playfield and it turned out ok, but was a real challenge. There is a thread on pinside for that project that might help you a little. At least with some what not to do info.
Quoted from stashyboy:Underneath. Remove the pops first to get to the leads. Sounds like you could benefit from studying Pinwiki, or Clay's guides.
Thanks. I have been meaning to check out Pinwiki, and now I see why so many people refer to it. Still need to check out Clay’s guides though...
You can generally get the screws out of the bumper body with the lamp socket in place. Turn the playfield over and remove the nuts from the rod and ring and the bracket and remove the bracket assembly , desolder the leads and pull the whole bumper assembly out.
Quoted from EMsInKC:You can generally get the screws out of the bumper body with the lamp socket in place. Turn the playfield over and remove the nuts from the rod and ring and the bracket and remove the bracket assembly , desolder the leads and pull the whole bumper assembly out.
Did just that. Just needed to squeeze the leads together a bit to get them to clear the hole in the playfield.
Quoted from pinzrfun:Steve Kulpa has a great step by step w pics on pop rebuilds too - I cant seem to find his website though -
The website had probably been down for a few years now. There is a thread “calling out Steve Kulpa” (which references some debate about Clay’s guides, which now I’m really excited about checking out) that probably coincides with the site going down.
Quoted from DCRand:Given the work and info you are going to need. I would suggest starting a new thread. Something like "Royal Flush playfield touch up help". You can get direct feedback help and track from start to finish on a dedicated thread. Which, also will serve as a resource for the someone else's Royal Flush project. I just did a Card Wiz and Royal Flush, and cleared the RF playfield and it turned out ok, but was a real challenge. There is a thread on pinside for that project that might help you a little. At least with some what not to do info.
Thank you. I recall your RF post about the PF. It actually has me rethinking whether I even want to try to do the clear myself, since this would be my first go. I saw a video online of a guy who put his playfield on his porch and started spraying it with a can of rustoleum something or other, and then sands and sprays a few more times and it looked like it came out great. Seeing that I figured it would be a breeze. But then I saw your post.
And I am definitely seeing this thread as a place where people come in with, for example, a beat up Cow Poke, and then Only a month later, it’s painted, and the clear is drying, and it plays 100%. So then we can hear about the next pin. So for me the “what EM are you working on now?” Never changes. It is always the RF, because it takes me one month to remove the wire ball guides.
Quoted from tyking:Thank you. I recall your RF post about the PF. It actually has me rethinking whether I even want to try to do the clear myself, since this would be my first go. I saw a video online of a guy who put his playfield on his porch and started spraying it with a can of rustoleum something or other, and then sands and sprays a few more times and it looked like it came out great. Seeing that I figured it would be a breeze. But then I saw your post.
And I am definitely seeing this thread as a place where people come in with, for example, a beat up Cow Poke, and then Only a month later, it’s painted, and the clear is drying, and it plays 100%. So then we can hear about the next pin. So for me the “what EM are you working on now?” Never changes. It is always the RF, because it takes me one month to remove the wire ball guides.
lol...i'm with you, it takes me forever too. I usually just want to relax and watch tv after work, so my pin projecting time is the weekend, and if we have other plans, it waits til the next week...rinse and repeat. I have to tell you though, the 2Pac spray clear is great, there are a couple threads on it. I've done 2 now, my first was Alladins Castle. By far the most time consuming thing on mine was leveling the inserts (the whole reason I did it, because they were starting to get beat up). I have one of those plastic playfield protectors on my Old Chicago and didn't want to do that again. Long story short, it's almost impossible to not have a great looking end product. Plays fast too!
My 2nd one was Strikes and Spares which turned out even better -
20180712_231630 (resized).jpg20180712_231759 (resized).jpg20180712_231824 (resized).jpg
20200829_201345 (resized).jpg20200829_201439 (resized).jpg20201017_193639 (resized).jpgQuoted from pinzrfun:lol...i'm with you, it takes me forever too. I usually just want to relax and watch tv after work, so my pin projecting time is the weekend, and if we have other plans, it waits til the next week...rinse and repeat. I have to tell you though, the 2Pac spray clear is great, there are a couple threads on it. I've done 2 now, my first was Alladins Castle. By far the most time consuming thing on mine was leveling the inserts (the whole reason I did it, because they were starting to get beat up). I have one of those plastic playfield protectors on my Old Chicago and didn't want to do that again. Long story short, it's almost impossible to not have a great looking end product. Plays fast too!
My 2nd one was Strikes and Spares which turned out even better -
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
My God!!! I'll send some of mine to do. Looks amazing.
Quoted from Playdium:My God!!! I'll send some of mine to do. Looks amazing.
I was thinking the same thing.
Quoted from DK:I FINALLY had time to work on my Tiger. She’s 99% there. Just doing small tweaks here and there and she’ll be ready for route!
[quoted image]
[quoted image][quoted image]
That’s cool. What kind of route would a classic pin like that end up on?
Quoted from tyking:That’s cool. What kind of route would a classic pin like that end up on?
I have a location where they allow me to “experiment” on what works.
At the moment that location has a new Iron Man, Class of 1812, TNA, Alien Star, and a Williams Liberty Bell. It will most likely replace the Liberty Bell EM slot when things open up here in Florida.
Fixed all the bugs on my Cowpoke restore except one thing. First activation of the score motor after game set-up for a 5 or 50 point score I get an extra ball scoring. After that first scoring both the 5 and 13 banks reset (resetting "Z") and all works normally. It's kicking my butt.
pasted_image (resized).png
Quoted from John_in_NC:After that first scoring both the 5 and 13 banks reset (resetting "Z")
If I remember correctly, the Q Relay is the Add-a-Ball Relay, right?
But either way, I'd check the Z armature switch (in the 5 bank) and also
maybe the EOS switch on the Ball Count Unit. It also could be one of the
snowshoe contacts on the Ball Count Unit is worn a little bit flat. I sometimes
had to solder in one of the rivets (when on the 4th step up), but many times
filed the flat snowshoe so the center was the high side. I had to replace
snowshoes also, but filing so the center of the snowshoe touched the rivets
usually did the trick..
Quoted from Mopar:If I remember correctly, the Q Relay is the Add-a-Ball Relay, right?
But either way, I'd check the Z armature switch (in the 5 bank) and also
maybe the EOS switch on the Ball Count Unit. It also could be one of the
snowshoe contacts on the Ball Count Unit is worn a little bit flat. I sometimes
had to solder in one of the rivets (when on the 4th step up), but many times
filed the flat snowshoe so the center was the high side. I had to replace
snowshoes also, but filing so the center of the snowshoe touched the rivets
usually did the trick..
XX is add balls to play relay to Add ball on balls to play unit. If I manually reset Z before plunging the ball it plays correctly. Should 5 bank (and Z) be resetting before the ball is served up? Seems Z needs to be activated to step up the balls to play to 5 at start but is still active until the motor runs again, adding a ball through Z then the bank resets deactivating Z.
pasted_image (resized).png
Quoted from pinzrfun:lol...i'm with you, it takes me forever too. I usually just want to relax and watch tv after work, so my pin projecting time is the weekend, and if we have other plans, it waits til the next week...rinse and repeat. I have to tell you though, the 2Pac spray clear is great, there are a couple threads on it. I've done 2 now, my first was Alladins Castle. By far the most time consuming thing on mine was leveling the inserts (the whole reason I did it, because they were starting to get beat up). I have one of those plastic playfield protectors on my Old Chicago and didn't want to do that again. Long story short, it's almost impossible to not have a great looking end product. Plays fast too!
My 2nd one was Strikes and Spares which turned out even better -
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
Did you have any issues with the clear getting in the grooves of the star rollovers?
Quoted from pinzrfun:lol...i'm with you, it takes me forever too. I usually just want to relax and watch tv after work, so my pin projecting time is the weekend, and if we have other plans, it waits til the next week...rinse and repeat. I have to tell you though, the 2Pac spray clear is great, there are a couple threads on it. I've done 2 now, my first was Alladins Castle. By far the most time consuming thing on mine was leveling the inserts (the whole reason I did it, because they were starting to get beat up). I have one of those plastic playfield protectors on my Old Chicago and didn't want to do that again. Long story short, it's almost impossible to not have a great looking end product. Plays fast too!
My 2nd one was Strikes and Spares which turned out even better -
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
Great work. My problem with 2Pac is I am spraying in my garage with very limited space, and little ability to create a spray "booth" or vent it really well. And hear that you really need good venting with 2Pac. Would you agree, or is it easier to vent than what I have heard before?
Quoted from DK:I FINALLY had time to work on my Tiger. She’s 99% there. Just doing small tweaks here and there and she’ll be ready for route!
[quoted image]
[quoted image][quoted image]
Great looking game, like the play field layout.
Got the Top Score setup. It’s on saw horses since the leg tees are stripped. Backbox turns on but the PF is out. It’s stuck on Tilt and the scoring motor keeps spinning.
Checked the backbox and all 10 bonus balls are there.
Debug starts tonight, check all of the Tilt switches and go from there. Fortunately it came with the schematic and manual.
30CF4063-68AC-4A2B-A3F7-08E13A79E836 (resized).pngB78C9AA0-07A0-4505-A296-BCA164D4107B (resized).png
Quoted from Peruman:Got the Top Score setup. It’s on saw horses since the leg tees are stripped. Backbox turns on but the PF is out. It’s stuck on Tilt and the scoring motor keeps spinning.
Checked the backbox and all 10 bonus balls are there.
Debug starts tonight, check all of the Tilt switches and go from there. Fortunately it came with the schematic and manual.
[quoted image][quoted image]
Nice game. I helped someone fix the 4 player version. I like the 2 player glass much better. Good luck with the troubleshooting. I keep a set of leg tees on hand for just that situation where you get a new game and they’re messed up...
Dave
Quoted from John_in_NC:Seems Z needs to be activated to step up the balls to play to 5 at start but is still active until the motor runs again,
At the Start up of a game and once everything resets (score reels and ball count), the Z Relay
energizes which transfers the circuit from the Ball Count's Reset Coil, to the Ball Counts
Step Up Coil through a set of make/break switches (in the Z Relay). Once the Ball Count
goes to the forth step, 2 blades from the Ball Counts snowshoe wiper (spring loaded blades)
complete a circuit to the 5 Bank Reset Coil, and while those snowshoe wipers are on those
two rivets, the next time the Ball Count's Step Up Coil energizes, it makes a set of switches
(EOS) which energizes the 5 Bank Coil. So the 3 things in the 5 Bank Coil's circuitry at Start
Up is the Z Armature switch (the switch on the 5 Bank Frame that the Z Relay's plate makes
when the Z Relay is in the energized (tripped) position), the rivets on the Ball Count's wiper
board that 2 of the snowshoe wiper blades are on after the Ball Count stepped up 4 times,
and the Ball Count's Step Up Coil's End Of Stroke switch which makes when the Ball Count Step
Up Coil pulls in. Those are the switches (and two wipers) that need to be checked, and of course
possibly the Jones plugs.
Quoted from tyking:That’s above the playfield right? How do I access them?
No, the leads will be bent and likely stapled on the bottom of the playfield. You unsolder or cut them there, then straighten them out and then you should be able to pull the whole upper assembly off together, or just the socket, and the rest bit by bit, whiever is easier.
Of course, there are also two screws that hold the body to the top of the PF.
-----------
So far as touchups go, that is a huge rabbit hole.
You could read this:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration
Don't get too intimidated tho.. To start with minor touchups, you can see which paints work well for you. Def. the Airbrush is the way to make things look professional.
I often just cover small touchups with a small mylar piece. it will protect the touchup, and if I ever want to re-do the whole PF, it is easily reversable.
For planking, there is a smear technique I have read about. If you search for that you should find it.. there isn't really a great overall fix other than full restoration tho.. I tend to just leave it and play.. and if I want a nicer example, I keep my eyes open for a PF with less planking.
IMHO-
Quoted from Mopar:At the Start up of a game and once everything resets (score reels and ball count), the Z Relay
energizes which transfers the circuit from the Ball Count's Reset Coil, to the Ball Counts
Step Up Coil through a set of make/break switches (in the Z Relay). Once the Ball Count
goes to the forth step, 2 blades from the Ball Counts snowshoe wiper (spring loaded blades)
complete a circuit to the 5 Bank Reset Coil, and while those snowshoe wipers are on those
two rivets, the next time the Ball Count's Step Up Coil energizes, it makes a set of switches
(EOS) which energizes the 5 Bank Coil. So the 3 things in the 5 Bank Coil's circuitry at Start
Up is the Z Armature switch (the switch on the 5 Bank Frame that the Z Relay's plate makes
when the Z Relay is in the energized (tripped) position), the rivets on the Ball Count's wiper
board that 2 of the snowshoe wiper blades are on after the Ball Count stepped up 4 times,
and the Ball Count's Step Up Coil's End Of Stroke switch which makes when the Ball Count Step
Up Coil pulls in. Those are the switches (and two wipers) that need to be checked, and of course
possibly the Jones plugs.
Still trying to decipher the sequence you describe but cutting to the chase, the z should be reset and ball count should be at 5 BEFORE the ball is plunged correct? It appears something in the path between the 4th and 5th ball count step up is not working, I’ll take a close look at the ball count unit and items you described. Thank you!
Quoted from John_in_NC:Still trying to decipher the sequence you describe but cutting to the chase, the z should be reset and ball count should be at 5 BEFORE the ball is plunged correct? It appears something in the path between the 4th and 5th ball count step up is not working, I’ll take a close look at the ball count unit and items you described. Thank you!
I’m guessing I have my balls to play unit set off by one position. I set the zero position assuming it was correct when I got it. It could well have been set wrong before. It was a non-working project when I got it.
Quoted from Mopar:At the Start up of a game and once everything resets (score reels and ball count), the Z Relay
energizes which transfers the circuit from the Ball Count's Reset Coil, to the Ball Counts
Step Up Coil through a set of make/break switches (in the Z Relay). Once the Ball Count
goes to the forth step, 2 blades from the Ball Counts snowshoe wiper (spring loaded blades)
complete a circuit to the 5 Bank Reset Coil, and while those snowshoe wipers are on those
two rivets, the next time the Ball Count's Step Up Coil energizes, it makes a set of switches
(EOS) which energizes the 5 Bank Coil. So the 3 things in the 5 Bank Coil's circuitry at Start
Up is the Z Armature switch (the switch on the 5 Bank Frame that the Z Relay's plate makes
when the Z Relay is in the energized (tripped) position), the rivets on the Ball Count's wiper
board that 2 of the snowshoe wiper blades are on after the Ball Count stepped up 4 times,
and the Ball Count's Step Up Coil's End Of Stroke switch which makes when the Ball Count Step
Up Coil pulls in. Those are the switches (and two wipers) that need to be checked, and of course
possibly the Jones plugs.
Based solely on your description...
I’m guessing I have my balls to play unit set off by one position. I set the zero position assuming it was correct when I got it. It could well have been set wrong before. It was a non-working project when I got it.
---Confirmed, 10 second fix!!!! Many thanks, working correctly!
Just finished up this 1972 Gottlieb World Series (AAB version of Grand Slam). Game was mostly working when I picked it up but dirty and not attended to for many years. Backglass was perfect. Playfield had norm wear spots near the kickout holes. A few weird hacks like o-rings for flipper rubbers. A couple of sticky latch relays. I don't know if it was ever cleaned/waxed. Carbon dust was piled high.
Cabinet repair, sand, repaint. Rebuilt all mechs. Cleaning, polishing, waxing, cleaning, polishing. Relay board refinished. New power cord. Replaced yellowed posts and plastic bits. Repaired and clearcoated playfield with 2X.
The game was a good canidate for a total restore since it was bassically in good shape. Two years on route and then stayed with the same family since 1976.
Great project interupted by a project to insulate my garage for future restores. Excellent way to get my mind of the pandemic. Now I'm looking for my next project.
My blog post with more - https://www.dogfordstudios.com/pinball-restore-project-1972-gottlieb-world-series/
before and after pinball_world_series-7245 (resized).jpgpinball_world_series-7184 (resized).jpgpinball_world_series-7262 (resized).jpgQuoted from Dogford_Studios:Just finished up this 1972 Gottlieb World Series (AAB version of Grand Slam). Game was mostly working when I picked it up but dirty and not attended to for many years. Backglass was perfect. Playfield had norm wear spots near the kickout holes. A few weird hacks like o-rings for flipper rubbers. A couple of sticky latch relays. I don't know if it was ever cleaned/waxed. Carbon dust was piled high.
Cabinet repair, sand, repaint. Rebuilt all mechs. Cleaning, polishing, waxing, cleaning, polishing. Relay board refinished. New power cord. Replaced yellowed posts and plastic bits. Repaired and clearcoated playfield with 2X.
The game was a good canidate for a total restore since it was bassically in good shape. Two years on route and then stayed with the same family since 1976.
Great project interupted by a project to insulate my garage for future restores. Excellent way to get my mind of the pandemic. Now I'm looking for my next project.
My blog post with more - https://www.dogfordstudios.com/pinball-restore-project-1972-gottlieb-world-series/[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
Nice job on the repaint though the colors are a bit off. You might be aware that the original cabinet colors were exactly the same as the back glass. I found one years ago that had been stored away out of the Sun and was virtually unfaded.
Quoted from John_in_NC:It could well have been set wrong before. It was a non-working project when I got it.
Oh, I knew it could have been in the snowshoes, but sorry, I didn't give it a thought
about the Ball Count's wiper might be mis-adjusted. It's good to hear you have it
working properly..
Quoted from Dogford_Studios:Just finished up this 1972 Gottlieb World Series [quoted image]
Nice work looks great.
Quoted from AlexF:Slowly working on this Ship Ahoy. It's taking me forever as I'd rather play than work on them.
[quoted image]
That's one of my favorite games! I have one in the game room - the kids love to play it.
Alberto
Wms Hi-Hand
I picked up three of these last week. Turns out, the seller was within a mile of me. Hope to get one working machine from the three.
The playfields are pretty nice. The cabinets are quite acceptable. Haven’t gotten into the heads yet. The plastics are all broken and very brittle. Thinking of using model cement to piece them together. Someone suggested Shoe Goo to reinforce them.
I think the red legs are original. They match the red on the cabinet. The promo flyer shows metal legs.
A4423D15-A31D-4D11-BEDC-E7BDFF7DAD2C (resized).jpegA931B089-1880-4DA9-AB77-0CB749D159D0 (resized).jpegCECFBEBA-E397-43E0-80DC-A5EF482B6C4E (resized).jpegF0553629-D95E-44B9-BF7E-9623E47C1D0B (resized).jpeg
Hey everyone,just started working on my williams 58'. batting game , its my first project .hasen't been turned on in 20yrs. Been asking a lot of questions on pinside and found everybody very helpful .I won't be restoring it ,just trying to get it 100% working for the kids to play. Any idea of the value of this game working ,thanks.
97B12E32-186E-4F4A-9DCC-413E40AB9E94 (resized).jpegQuoted from arcadekid-51:Hey everyone,just started working on my williams 58'. batting game , its my first project .hasen't been turned on in 20yrs. Been asking a lot of questions on pinside and found everybody very helpful .I won't be restoring it ,just trying to get it 100% working for the kids to play. Any idea of the value of this game working ,thanks.
[quoted image]
Here is one on eBay. 1200.00
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