Wish I could learn how to upload a noid right side up.

News flash.... LIFE AIN'T FAIR! You will always be better off than some and not as well off as others!

Since you appear to own 9 pinball machines I will assume that your family has food on their table and a roof over their heads... It's a freakin game so ease back on the outrage and be grateful for all the good things in your life

LE's and premiums have about $125 worth of shit in them over the pro and they charge you $2000+ for it. I think they have plenty of wiggle room that nothing is a freebie.

Not necessarily.

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I am fortunate. I'm not saying that. My point is that it's a bad attitude to have to want the prices of machines to remain high as opposed to letting pinball become more popular by letting the price point come down. I want the machines to come down as cheap as possible so I have the possibility to own as many as possible. It's the selfish attitude of others that gets me worked up, not the fact I don't have a tron .

Are there really that many LE owners that care so much about this? Seems like it is just a handful to me.

It sure seems a lot more fair if you've got yourself a TronLE.

You want to the prices to come down so you can own as many pins as possible. Sounds pretty selfish to me.

I don't know any "pinvestors" that are paying 6k for a NIB Tron right now, or 5k+ for a HUO, modded or unmodded...

Just curious, do you consider me a rich pin snob?

You're talking about one game. There are thousands of titles that are cheaper and you can certainly own as many as you can fit in our house.

What about Pro owners? There are more of them.

Also, just want to be clear...my responses here aren't about me "caring"....I'm explaining the logic behind why Stern would never do it.

A theoretical Tron Premium isn't just about Tron LE owners. It's about the LE concept. Who on earth would ever pay $7-8k+ for a NIB LE game ever again if they aren't truly limited? That's why Stern made a clear differentiation between the Premium and LE when they solidified the concept. Since Tron was made before that concept, there's no way to make a Tron Premium that wouldn't alienate PAST & FUTURE BUYERS - Pro & LE buyers alike. Tron Pro buyers who all wanted the LE features would be pissed that they bought Pros instead of Premiums. A Tron Premium TODAY would be superior to the LE, as it would be in the new cabinet with high rez decals. That's why it would be an "LE remake"...a "clone" ...and not a true Premium as we've come to know what a Premium is.

Why do I keep responding. There will never be a Tron Premium.

There won't be a Tron LE remake. Stern has come out on record saying they will not remake LE's as I'm sure others have said in this thread. But to those that think a Tron Vault with the ramp kit only is not possible could be In for a rude awakening. The Eli kit is cool but will never be as incorporated as the ramps that are tied into the game code.

If Stern decided to do this I'm sure they could easily sell 500+ units. Most likely more.

Heard a lot of that about MMr and The Big Lebowski.

I understand the concern from Tron LE owners about wanting to keep their games exclusive.

Also understand the desire of pinball enthusiasts wanting to buy a game that has all of the gameplay that is available and are willing to pay extra money for it. Apparently so does Stern and that is why they later created the premium model.

I don't think there is another Stern game that causes all this emotion over a potential remake. All of the other LE's either had unlimited premiums available or the LEs were never that popular anyway. Is that right?

If Stern wants to satisfy all 3 camps, it is really only over Tron - no worries about the other games. Creating a Tron VE that has all the game play except the drops should keep LE owners 'whole', Stern can get Premium $ for the game, and pinball enthusiasts can have a game that retains the more important elements of the gameplay that differ from the Pro - randomizer, Daft Punk Multiball, additional call outs, etc.

We'll be whole no matter what they do. There will also be a "whole" lot of pros being dumped at bargain prices.

Careful Rob. That pic is instant ban.

Of course this one is ok. Cuz it's my wife.

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Underlord.... Good post!

Damn, your wife has a really nice.. um.. phone.

As for the thread topic - zero chance of LE remake but a vault edition seems likely.

Completely different contexts.

MM: Commercial game, never sold as a limited edition. WMS original IP. IP controlled by PPS.
Lebowski: Dutch Pinball started a company and decided to license Big Lebowski.

What do either have to do with a Stern Limited Edition game?

Tron LE owners aren't the issue. The LE concept and future LE buyers are. We'd be having the same discussion if all of the sudden Avatar got super popular & distributors were bugging Stern to run it again. If Avatar were ever to get a re-run, it would be Vault, not a Premium with the LE features.

Stern,

If you decide to build the Tron Premium, I will take two.

I have a nephew and brother-in-law who would each love to own one.

Regards,
Mike

Same concept Rarehero - Games people said would never happen - MMR, TBL, and you could throw IM remake/ VE into the same general conversation.

Secondly - It would be no problem whatsoever to make a Tron remake that is somewhat less than the LE, but way more than the Pro, and captures the gameplay of the LE - minus the drops. And it wouldn't violate the "LE concept".

Ditto for in the unlikely event that avatar, transformer, or Xmen became popular enough to do another run.

If you are really serious grab the 2 LE's on mr pinball

I would never pay above the original MSRP for any machine.

Stern isn't remaking Tron LE-esque pins cuz the uproar and potential fallout outweigh the short term profits.

Btw, that isn't my wife, it's a pic off of The Chive. My real wife is far 'prettier'.

What you talkin' bout, Willis?!

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If Stern can do a run of pins and make an extra grand off each one by making it "premium enough", you can bet they will.

I don't think there are that many upset LE owners anyway.

About 400 give of take. 8-o

Full disclosure - I would like to have the drops on my Tron PrVE - I am just willing to sacrifice them to help anyone get over the LE thing. Which isn't even a thing anymore...

An additional 400k dropping to the bottom line in one fiscal year, for a small PE backed company the size of Stern (small), is worth it for them.

If anything they should get rid of those pop bumpers. Then we can talk about "flow".

If they did that, I'd never buy an LE off of stern nib again! NEVER!!

But would you be in for a premium?

In case you missed it the first 50 times...

...why didn't they do it in '12 and '13 when they made more Tron Pro? There was Tron LE demand then...they could have done it then. They didn't. They won't.

Let's look at another scenario where Stern could have made an extra grand. Iron Man. A lot of us who bought IM ve went ahead and put red armor on it & other mods to trick it out ....so - why didn't they market it as an Iron Man Premium and charge more?

Stern doesn't just do greedy things to do greedy things. They do things that make business sense.

400 LE owners would at the very least be slightly annoyed
1000's of Pro owners would be pissed they "bought too early" and didn't wait for a better version
10,000's of future customers will never buy a high priced LE again. Stern's whole sales structure crumbles and becomes non-viable.

I don't think I missed anything. Pulling an extra grand out of IM would not have been that easy. Any upgrades there would not have involved gameplay, just cosmetics. Not everyone sees value in that.

I am talking about a very popular game that has different gameplay (in case you missed that ). If they can give more of that gameplay or make this VE a little more special than the pro and keep the 4 LE owners who are worried about this happy and whole - and make an extra grand or so on each unit (one of which would be mine!!) - that makes good business sense. Not sure why anyone would be against this really.

Wish I could thumb this down more than once. 10,000s of future customers? You are such a drama Queen.

Just got back on PS, and decided to read another one of these threads ( I don't know why):

a) Hasn't it already been stated by Stern directly that LE's are not on the table for VE's ...period? This is what makes them an LE...good grief. Done, over, stop, stop.
b) I bought a TRON LE at a premium, and am not a snob or probably not " luckier" than a lot on here.
c) I had no " right" to the machine, I had to BUY it...my choice, my money...is what it is
d) All my machines are players, and this is a hobby for me...."pinvesting"?
e) Seems the Pro owners would be more upset, because they spent a ton on mods, love their machines, and now suddenly they are not relevant ( can't you still do this now)? I've seen some killer modded games posted here....
f) A TRONLE is different in many ways to a Pro, hence the retained value.
g) Please don't lump all people that choose to buy what they want ( or not) in a demeaning category.... thanks....mark

It's irrelevant to this conversation. None of those are LE games. People speculate non-stop what would/should/could/won't be made/remade. That's normal. But we're talking about something specific here. Stern Limited Edition games & I'm basing my theories of their business decisions on the actions they have made. These actions are:

1.) They've said they would never re-make an LE
2.) They've never re-made an LE
3.) They've only made NEW Premiums when a Premium already existed (Luci)
4.) They've only remade Pros when only a Pro already existed (IMve)

So, my view that Stern would never remake Tron LE (and call it Premium) is based on facts. Those other games are irrelevant to this discussion.

Before IMve was announced, IM was selling for $6-7k. The higher dollar market was willing to throw bucks at IM. They made a Pro, though.

Stop putting the burden of pisstivity on the LE owners. They probably sold 2000 or so Pros....most bought those Pros in '12 and '13 because the LE was unobtanium. They would have easily purchased the better version.

And stop being disingenuous with your faux-naive "why would anyone be against this". Stern created an LE market. Limited Edition has to mean something. If it means nothing, that market crumbles.

There's no win for Stern to make a Tron Premium....and that's why they won't.

Most of the concerns seem to be related to the secondary market value of pins. Stern doesn't make money there and is prob tired of leaving it on the table - hence the premium concept. The whole LE system now only involves cosmetic differences as compared to the premiums. Anyone can pony up additional money for the premium gameplay on new games. And that is the best model for Stern to make money.

I am not sure that if you added up all the LE's ever made by Stern, that it would total 10,000 units. And I am pretty sure that if future titles are right and the pins are cool, the LEs still sell out.

So maybe they make my Tron PrVE (not sure I like the way PrVE sounds...) and maybe they don't, but it will depend on the business case for it. Maybe the demand isn't there for a run of whatever the minimum is to make it happen. And I am sure they will keep the LEs special in some way if they do.

Everybody gets one.

2 titles with 500 units of LEs each a year, that's 1000 units a year...I'm sure Stern wants to be in business for more than 10 years from now.

Math = drama?

Go play your Avengers...I like when you're happy.

Then why didn't they do it with Tron'12 and '13!?!?!? They sold a shit ton of games with the Tron Pros, so no money was left on the table.

Right - and Tron LE was made before that concept!!! There was no Premium at the time. Therefore, a Premium NOW would be an LE clone! Hence - NO Tron "Premium" because Stern doesn't remake LEs.

Exactly. That's why they eventually landed on that model with AC/DC...but that was AFTER Tron. So, Tron is what it is.

Not if LE is meaningless. People would rather just spend less money on a Premium at that point.

I've laid out the business case. Tron Premium will not happen. So, hopefully they'll make a Tron VE (Pro with LEDs in new style cab) if there's enough demand & the license is renewable.

Rarehero - you win, I submit.

So Greg thumbs up this post? Does that mean Greg believes that Stern could make a Tron VE with some "enhancements" over the pro? Like lighted ramps and maybe the extra code? Just so long as they don't call it a "premium", because everyone knows that "premium" - when it comes to Tron - really means "LE", even though it doesn't.

Lol. I wish I can give rarehero thumbs up more than once, cuz you just make too much sense and getting the math right.

Will trade stolen BBB for more pics of Underlords wife.

Really I am just waiting for Rarehero to go to bed and then I am going to get the last post in.

Damn Pacific Time......

Girlfriend will be over in a half hour or so....go nuts! lol

Yet.........give it some more time, and as for dropping in value "at all", its come way down, like everything else.

A game that cost just over 5k new is now down to 10k used. A real slide....