Quoted from o-din:You got your answers, didn't ya?
Yeap - think so
Quoted from Goronic:I played pinball last year for the first time in over 20 years. My first pin that I will own is The Hobbit (Preordered). So I am new to this market - but already buying a game
I had no idea that you could get versions of a pinball machine (like pro, premium, LE, etc) until last year. So it is confusing to say there can't be more than one type of LE - but I see pins have more than on LE. I hear that you can't have a premium because it wasn't done at the same time as the LE, a Premium is an LE --- so confusing.
It's a bit confusing….but here's the simple version: Stern has tried a few different variations of "Standard" and "LE" to see what worked and what didn't before settling on the current Pro, Premium, LE model.
Way back when they did Elvis Gold - which was just Elvis with gold trim and a shaker.
For NASCAR, they did a Dale Jr. LE, which featured an entirely new art package.
For Spider-Man, they did a Black Spider-Man LE with some new art, mirrored backglass, chrome trim with webbed rails.
Avatar LE was the first time they did an LE that had more than just bling - it had extra features the standard version didn't have (they weren't calling it a Pro yet). It added extra lights, switches, a ceramic "powerball", a lid that opened and closed for the link pod, extra coils on the AMP suits feet, extra toys, custom painted AMP suit. This was announced months after the standard version - and many who bought that one were pissed. Lesson learned, if you're going to add more than bling - don't release the better version later! So, with Rolling Stones and Tron, the LEs were announced up front. Transformers then tried the variations of LEs, which finally led to the "new standard" of Pro, Premium, LE with AC/DC.
Quoted from Goronic:LOL. What I have learned, and I bet the poll turns out this way, is that 'who knows'
Who knows indeed.
The one facet of this I keep returning to is Stern lit the Monger's chest.
All the other improvements to the vault edition (high res cab decals, all LEDs, etc) can be explained away by the extremely vocal advocates like Rare Hero as merely being the current state of the art from stern. That does not apply to lighting the Monger's chest. That was Stern seeing a standard mod people were doing and implementing it on release as an upgrade.
While none of us know what stern will do or when I think it is a mistake to say they won't add factory installed mods for more buzz to improve vault edition games. They did it with the Monger's chest. While you can distinguish this by saying yea that was before the three tier release model or whatever...I'm not convinced that matters at all to stern or if it really matters.
Regardless of what happens. The value of Tron LEs will not be affected at all. If they would be affected then Eli's mod (which is superior in many ways) would have already affected it.
Quoted from TigerLaw:Regardless of what happens. The value of Tron LEs will not be affected at all. If they would be affected then Eli's mod (which is superior in many ways) would have already affected it.
One thing I know for sure is if they don't use the old backbox lock like they used on TronLE, there can be no comparison.
Quoted from Rarehero:I think a few people were pissed, but at the same time if you were a green LE buyer you paid $6500, way less than what the red is selling for.
Same as me paying $5300 for my TRON LE - I'm sure not going to complain when people pay $7000 for the new TRON Premium.
Quoted from Trekkie1978:Look at Transformers, 750 LE's and no one wants em (I love mine though!).
AC/DC, 500 LE's and they flew right off the shelf. I'm sure if they did 750, they would've still sold out.
Star Trek, 799 LE's and they are almost out of them.
I think there are less than 750 TF Le's.
Decepticon 125
Autobot 125
Combo 300
In my book that's only 550. Unless my combo numbers are off?
At this point in the voting 87% (almost 90%) are expecting more TRONs (in some form from Stern) - interesting
Quoted from CaptainNeo:I think there are less than 750 TF Le's.
Decepticon 125
Autobot 125
Combo 300
In my book that's only 550. Unless my combo numbers are off?
They made 500 combos. Not sure if all were built but the combos were 1 of 500
guess it is 750 then. Never had a combo, thought someone told me 300. :/ ah well, doesn't matter either way to me. I hope they do another 125 bumblebee editions or whatever.
Quoted from CaptainNeo:I think there are less than 750 TF Le's.
Decepticon 125
Autobot 125
Combo 300
In my book that's only 550. Unless my combo numbers are off?
Combo is 500.
My combo is #410.
Quoted from Trekkie1978:Combo is 500.
My combo is #410.
I had #84 - the year the Transformers cartoon came out!
Quoted from TigerLaw:Who knows indeed.
The one facet of this I keep returning to is Stern lit the Monger's chest.
All the other improvements to the vault edition (high res cab decals, all LEDs, etc) can be explained away by the extremely vocal advocates like Rare Hero as merely being the current state of the art from stern. That does not apply to lighting the Monger's chest. That was Stern seeing a standard mod people were doing and implementing it on release as an upgrade.
.
Well, they had to remake the toys anyway - what's a 10 cent LED in his chest while they're at it It's a nice addition, but I hardly see Stern throwing in the ramp lights as a "Vault freebie"
But the bikes in Tron, were toys they purchased (ala Transformers).
Once those toys were out of stock, they moved to the "all terrain vehicle" (I don't know the technical name for it).
Quoted from Trekkie1978:But the bikes in Tron, were toys they purchased (ala Transformers).
Once those toys were out of stock, they moved to the "all terrain vehicle" (I don't know the technical name for it).
Same as IM...just need to mold and cast.
One day, people will wake up and realize that you can get a red SM, Ac/dc premium and Tron pro for thousands less for a pin that plays the exact same way or one, in the case of Tron with the Eli mod, make it better.
And one day, we might realize that 250, 400 or 500 is nowhere close to being "limited" and not pay stupid prices for pumped up so called "limited" pins. Who are gonna be the bagholders here?
Quoted from Trekkie1978:Once those toys were out of stock, they moved to the "all terrain vehicle" (I don't know the technical name for it).
Light runner - I have the toy I think you referring to on my lab desk
Quoted from Goronic:Light runner - I have the toy I think you referring to on my lab desk
WP_20140906_001.jpg 149 KB
Yep
Quoted from Goronic:Light runner - I have the toy I think you referring to on my lab desk
WP_20140906_001.jpg 149 KB
Yep, that's it.
I'm of the belief that we have hit a peak on prices for LE pins.
What we are seeing in resale prices, reminds me exactly of the housing market.
Quoted from o-din:Don't you think it would be better business for Stern to put their name on Big Bang Bar, than make 500 Tron premiums.
Short term, yes. Long term it will depress the pinball industry if they go into 100% remake mode. What's better for buzz and new player excitement, a brand new TWD or an AFMr? BBB vs Tron Premium is a more interesting choice... as many years as I've been in the hobby I've never seen a BBB in person, so it would actually be newish to most people unlike MM, and there is a pent up demand for Tron Premium...the LE lighted ramps are one of the top features added to a pinball machine, and I think there are as many Tron LE's as BBB's floating around? I don't really like Tron, but I'd consider a Premium.
Quoted from AkumaZeto:I am glad this thread happened. I love pinside. I literally laughed so hard I threw up a little.
Quoted from Rarehero:Well, they had to remake the toys anyway - what's a 10 cent LED in his chest while they're at it It's a nice addition, but I hardly see Stern throwing in the ramp lights as a "Vault freebie"
If they charge about 5500 or more it would cost about the same as the full LE so I wouldnt call it a "Vault Freebie"
Quoted from Trekkie1978:Yep, that's it.
I'm of the belief that we have hit a peak on prices for LE pins.
What we are seeing in resale prices, reminds me exactly of the housing market.
I'm seeing the same. I don't think we will see as sharp of a collapse as housing, but down trends in the secondary markets will continue for a while. Eventually this will impact nib prices. Just my humble 2 cents worth.
Quoted from Rarehero:Not sensitive. Logical. What part of "Limited Edition" doesn't make sense to some of you? It was made, it was sold out, it's over.
Exactly, so wtf do you care if they make an edition halfway between the pro and an LE and call it a Premium?
Quoted from Rarehero:The game has a plaque on it that says #___ of 400. There are 400 Tron LEs. That's it. What part of Limited Edition do you not understand? They made the game, it's done. This is why they started making Pro/Premium/LE with AC/DC - so those who didn't get an LE can still get a unit with the extra playfield features. However, Tron came out before the current marketing strategy - the Pro & LE have the same cabinet & translite...essentially, TRON LE is a Premium & LE in one - as the concepts hadn't been split yet. Same with Rolling Stones LE & Avatar LE. It is what it is, and it's done. A "new" LE or Premium will never happen....it will piss off LE owners and destroy any credibility the LE concept has left, and it will piss off the thousands who bought Pros & modded the shit out of them, as they clearly would have just bought a Premium in the first place.
They can make just as much cash selling more Pros without burning bridges with past & future customers.
You make Tron owners sound like a bunch of bitter, whiny bitches. Why can't they just enjoy their games instead of walking around all pissed off? Because they modded them? Because they paid 5 figures for an LE? I would hope that these people have actual lives they could be enjoying as opposed to whining and bitching about Stern making a desireable game for THE REST of the market out there. Like they did with Luci. You remember Luci, right? And MET Monsters? Highly desireable editions released AFTER the original premiums and LEs. Maybe us "rock pin" owners aren't so sensitive and don't feel so entitled.
Stern does way more harm to their business by not finishing code or ensuring better QC out the door. And guess what...that isn't stopping them. They aren't worried. But they are worried about the 400 Tron LE owners?
Quoted from TigerLaw:Who knows indeed.
The one facet of this I keep returning to is Stern lit the Monger's chest.
All the other improvements to the vault edition (high res cab decals, all LEDs, etc) can be explained away by the extremely vocal advocates like Rare Hero as merely being the current state of the art from stern. That does not apply to lighting the Monger's chest. That was Stern seeing a standard mod people were doing and implementing it on release as an upgrade.
While none of us know what stern will do or when I think it is a mistake to say they won't add factory installed mods for more buzz to improve vault edition games. They did it with the Monger's chest. While you can distinguish this by saying yea that was before the three tier release model or whatever...I'm not convinced that matters at all to stern or if it really matters.
Regardless of what happens. The value of Tron LEs will not be affected at all. If they would be affected then Eli's mod (which is superior in many ways) would have already affected it.
Yup. As an original IM owner, When I saw that light in Mongers chest on the VE I had two options, cry and whine over the unfairness of it all or not care, and enjoy my own awesome IM game. But I think us IM owners are just a little bit tougher than some of those Tron owners. They worry so much. Then again, they do carry around a lot of responsibility. To hear some of them tell it, the future of our hobby - or at least Stern - rests on their delicate sensibilities. If Stern releases a version of Tron with lighted ramps these people will BOYCOTT, and as a result, no one else in the entire world will ever buy another pin from them again!
Not one! Even if they release KISS, or Iron Maiden. Or Led Zep. Or Harry Potter. Or Hunger Games. Or Elvira v3. Etc. etc. etc.
Quoted from Rarehero:It's a bit confusing….
Only to you man.
Quoted from Rarehero:don't release the better version later!
Like Luci?
Quoted from vid1900:Like I said, it will be a Premium or a TRON3.
Expect it.
With lighted ramps and and an LCD screen! Booya Tron LE owners!
People are missing the best thing about enhanced Vault releases: they keep the after market prices in check. Why buy a heavily modded Tron (or IM) for $6k when you can buy NIB for $5k? Stern wants the top $ currently going to the secondary market. As soon as Stern realizes that Used Tron Pro's with Eli's kit are selling for $6k, it's just a matter of time folks.
Quoted from Trekkie1978:IMO, I think they will…I seem to be the only person who enjoyed the Tron sequel.
Uh, hardly.
I have a sealed 35mm trailer reel that still has the "property of Disney" sticker on it, along with a crapton of toys. I've got so much stuff sitting around from the buying spree we went on when the toys were clearanced out that we have about 5 diecast recognizers and 4 light runners (with two different wheel styles?) etc...
Quoted from Rarehero:Again, there's that "money on the table" argument. When there was "money on the table" they made the Pro again. And again. And again. The Pro is EASY money for them. Like IM, it's a super low BOM, and buyers were happy to gobble them up. If distributors are beating their doors down for more Trons....you will see the Pro again.
No more market for ordinary NIB pros, that's why. There are nibs available everywhere. For $6k (laugh. Out. LOUD). The Tron market needs something better than a regular Tron pro now. Let's see, what could they do? They can't re-release the LE, those were "limited" (or so goes the conventional wisdom). But the pros "as is" aren't going to generate enough interest, hmmm. Let's see now. If there was a way, um, to somehow make a version with more features than the pro, but not the same as the LE....something "in between" you might say...well, heck (! Hell, BEN Heck!!!) you might just have something there!
Oh wait, Greg says "no"? Oh, well never mind then. Never really made sense anyway. That whole "version in the middle" thing. Quite implausible!
Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:they could be enjoying as opposed to whining and bitching about Stern making a desireable game for THE REST of the market out there. Like they did with Luci. You remember Luci, right? And MET Monsters? Highly desireable editions released AFTER the original premiums and LEs. Maybe us "rock pin" owners aren't so sensitive and don't feel so entitled.
It's already been said many, many times, but since many people apparently continue to miss it, we can repeat it again: the difference is that in all the examples that you give, Stern had already released a Premium version of the pin at the time of the original release.
Not the case with Tron.
Quoted from TigerLaw:Regardless of what happens. The value of Tron LEs will not be affected at all. If they would be affected then Eli's mod (which is superior in many ways) would have already affected it.
And almost everyone here said that when Eli's kit was widely available, the value of Tron LE would plummet. Not only did it not plummet, it didn't drop in value at all.
Quoted from RobT:Not the case with Tron.
So you are saying that the only real option for Stern is a vault edition?
Quoted from RobT:It's already been said many, many times, but since many people apparently continue to miss it, we can repeat it again: the difference is that in all the examples that you give, Stern had already released a Premium version of the pin at the time of the original release.
Not the case with Tron.
I know that. I just believe its irrelevant. I don't think Stern cares about that. I can't say for sure, but neither can you.
Quoted from Goronic:Yeap - think so
Quoted from Goronic:So you are saying that the only real option for Stern is a vault edition?
I thought you said you got your answers.
Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:I know that. I just believe its irrelevant. I don't think Stern cares about that. I can't say for sure, but neither can you.
Well of course it is completely relevant!
You are giving examples of what Stern has done in the past. Those examples are *different* than what happened with Tron.
So it would be Stern doing something that they have never done before.
I think that's pretty relevant.
Quoted from Goronic:So you are saying that the only real option for Stern is a vault edition?
It took you 7 pages to figure this out???
I think the OP should just go after one of the existing Trons when he is ready to buy. Instead of waiting for something that may never happen.
I don't understand why Stern wouldn't make at least a Tron VE when tron pros are going for 5k + and NIB have asking prices of 6k +. This is a similar price point to where Iron Man was when the VE was announced. I think the argument that they've never done it in the past holds no weight here. Stern will do whatever they want to squeeze the last few bucks out of pinheads. Honestly they'd be crazy not to add a few features to the VE like lighted ramps, LEDs etc to try and get the people holding onto their original pro models to try and upgrade. It's a win win for Stern. It's apparent by the number of posts in this tread that demand is there.
I for one definitely am in the market for a tron, but there's no fk'n way I'm paying such a high price for one. I buy to play not to collect. I just want a machine that's reasonably priced so I can purchase one. I hate this attitude of only people willing to pay such a high price are the only ones able to own one these machines. It is a really selfish point of view. We should all be encouraging the pinball manufacturers to make as many games as possible to lower the aftermarket price so we can all afford whatever machines we want. It's just sad to price out new pinheads with these ridiculous pinvestors trying to turn a buck on this hobby instead of just enjoying playing the machines.
There's nothing I loathe more than these rich pin snobs who think they have some right over others to own certain machines because they've been luckier in life than others.
Thanks to everyone for their input on this thread. I am excited to get into pinball and this site is great for getting buying advise and perspective. This has helped a lot for me to determine by course of action with TRON. Thanks again for everyone who chimed in and participated in the poll. You guys rock!
Quoted from Deez:I for one definitely am in the market for a tron, but there's no fk'n way I'm paying such a high price for one.
Then you aren't really in the current market for one.
Quoted from Trekkie1978:I seem to be the only person who enjoyed the Tron sequel.
I cranked off to it a few times when the Bluray came out.
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