(Topic ID: 114796)

wh20 topper lights keep burning out

By Atomicboy

9 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

You

Linked Games

#1 9 years ago

Anyone else have this problem? I have the proper ones, not using 555's or anything like that. They last for about a month and then they start to go here and there.

Is there a better bulb, sort of like a 47 to a 44 type of thing?

I heard 12v LED's don't have the same effect on the topper, but changing these things are a bitch. Anyone have any ideas? Boards are all good, reflowed all the connections when I got it.

#2 9 years ago

You are using 194's right? I had the same issue last month and anything but 194's, blew super quick. LEDs melted... No joy.

#3 9 years ago
Quoted from MAJRob:

You are using 194's right? I had the same issue last month and anything but 194's, blew super quick. LEDs melted... No joy.

I learned the exact same lesson "is something burning?". Too funny.

#4 9 years ago

Measure the voltage at the socket. Probably a bad resistor somewhere?

#5 9 years ago
Quoted from MAJRob:

You are using 194's right? I had the same issue last month and anything but 194's, blew super quick. LEDs melted... No joy.

Bingo ... 194 bulbs are needed. That's a pretty good bet that he's not using them.

#6 9 years ago
Quoted from pinster68:

Bingo ... 194 bulbs are needed. That's a pretty good bet that he's not using them.

Yeah, I have them. They don't blow right away either, it's been a month or more since new ones were installed. What is weird is that when one goes, another one seems to illuminate brighter, and I believe that is always the next one to go, almost like because one is out, it's current is double up on another.

I'll have to take a closer look, but thought I'd post before pulling apart again.

#7 9 years ago
Quoted from Atomicboy:

Yeah, I have them. They don't blow right away either, it's been a month or more since new ones were installed. What is weird is that when one goes, another one seems to illuminate brighter, and I believe that is always the next one to go, almost like because one is out, it's current is double up on another.
I'll have to take a closer look, but thought I'd post before pulling apart again.

Well there goes my theory. Looks like Barron's recommendation is next. Either you have bad bulbs, or the voltage is out of whack.

#8 9 years ago

check voltage for sure, or you might need to put a resistor into its feed line to drop a little voltage and/or limit the current. slightly dimmer not burning out, is friendlier anyway.
had some nice 12v LED strips that slowly cooked themselves, blues turning dimmer dotted purpley.
replaced them and added 10 ohm 1/4w resistor, I dont notice the strips being dimmer (are they?) but I do see they arent cooking themselves like the last set where 1/3 of them got about baked.

#9 9 years ago
Quoted from zizzlemeplease:

check voltage for sure, or you might need to put a resistor into its feed line to drop a little voltage and/or limit the current. slightly dimmer not burning out, is friendlier anyway.
had some nice 12v LED strips that slowly cooked themselves, blues turning dimmer dotted purpley.
replaced them and added 10 ohm 1/4w resistor, I dont notice the strips being dimmer (are they?) but I do see they arent cooking themselves like the last set where 1/3 of them got about baked.

Do you get the same water feature though? I heard LED's simply don't work with this topper for the effect.

#10 9 years ago

I put leds in, very briefly, and I personally thought it took away from the effect vs incadescents

#11 9 years ago

Original WMS Driver board or Rottendog? New age boards don't work properly, acknowledged by Jim.

I tried LED's when I had a WH20, it never looked as good as 194's.

#12 9 years ago
Quoted from Atomicboy:

Do you get the same water feature though? I heard LED's simply don't work with this topper for the effect.

this was in something entirely different, but similar about voltage and current limiting may apply to save a string of bulbs from frequent burnout if the supply voltage is a good number. PartsExpress.com has some big (10w 20w) 2 and 4 ohm resistors, a couple 2's parallel for 1 ohm or pair of 4's for 2 ohm might drop supply voltage just enough for the bulbs to last. it isnt 115v AC, but an inline dimmer switch from hardware store (even fully turned up) would add a little resistance. if a dimmer gets it done its convenient, adjustable at whim could be nice.

#13 9 years ago
Quoted from eh97ac:

Original WMS Driver board or Rottendog?

No idea. I assume original, as they had the usual header and socket broken solder pads that I had to redo.

#14 9 years ago
Quoted from eh97ac:

Original WMS Driver board or Rottendog? New age boards don't work properly, acknowledged by Jim.

Basically the game uses two low powered coil transistors from the driver board to drive a clock and data line which goes to the chase board which in turn drives the topper lamp boards.

Unfortunately something during the design process got messed up and the lamps are actually wired up in the wrong order. It's possible they didn't know until they got the final foils in and by that time, it was just easier to fix it in software rather than redoing the wiring harnesses. The result is that the game has to write the data for all 16 lamps all at once and then re-write the data all over in order to "advance" the pattern.

Because of this, and because of latency in the game code, it's not a clean clock/data arrangement, but it is still nothing more than an on/off signal from the driver board. Not sure how an aftermarket driver board could mess that up, but...

The 194 lamps should survive a steady ON signal (such as in the topper test mode), so burning them out during normal operation shouldn't happen. If I were to just make a stab at what could be wrong, I'd say you have a bad solder joint on one (or both) of the bridge rectifiers on the chase board or there's too much voltage there, or something. Check that part out very thoroughly.

#15 9 years ago
Quoted from GLModular:

I'd say you have a bad solder joint on one (or both) of the bridge rectifiers on the chase board

Replace them now! I don;t care what pinwiki says, I rip them out and replace at the drop of a hat.

#16 9 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

Replace them now! I don;t care what pinwiki says, I rip them out and replace at the drop of a hat.

Wrong bridges....
The chase boards have their own 4-in-line style small bridges.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://ww.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#17 9 years ago
Quoted from ChrisHibler:

Wrong bridges....
The chase boards have their own 4-in-line style small bridges.

Oh I figured that but a bridge is a bridge in my book....rip'em out!

#18 9 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

....rip'em out!

The operative words for many hobbyists...
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

Promoted items from Pinside Marketplace and Pinside Shops!
$ 27.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
 
$ 30.00
Playfield - Other
YouBentMyWookie
 
$ 79.99
Cabinet - Armor And Blades
PinGraffix Pinside Shop
 
7,800 (OBO)
Machine - For Sale
Cincinnati, OH
$ 225.00
Lighting - Interactive
Professor Pinball
 
$ 9.95
Lighting - Led
Mitchell Lighting
 
From: $ 9.99
Eproms
Matt's Basement Arcade
 
$ 12.95
Playfield - Decals
Pinball Pimp
 
$ 399.00
Cabinet - Decals
Mircoplayfields
 
$ 12.95
$ 189.00
Playfield - Plastics
Starcade Amusement
 
15,000
Machine - For Sale
Ontario, CA
From: $ 110.00
Lighting - Interactive
Pinball Z
 
$ 1,059.00
Flipper Parts
Mircoplayfields
 
$ 69.50
Boards
Pinball Haus
 
$ 329.99
Lighting - Other
Lighted Pinball Mods
 
$ 60.00
Cabinet - Decals
Pinball Haus
 
$ 15.00
Playfield - Other
Nezzy's Pinball Prints
 
6,500
Machine - For Sale
Montpelier, VA
$ 9.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
 
$ 10.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
 
$ 119.99
Cabinet - (Alt) Translites
FlyLand Designs
 
Wanted
Machine - Wanted
Asheville, NC
$ 5.95
Lighting - Led
Mitchell Lighting
 
$ 84.99
Cabinet - Armor And Blades
FlyLand Designs
 
$ 225.00
Cabinet - (Alt) Translites
FlyLand Designs
 
$ 34.99
Rubber/Silicone
NO GOUGE PINBALL™
 
From: $ 159.95
Cabinet - Sound/Speakers
PinSound
 
Hey modders!
Your shop name here

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/wh20-topper-lights-keep-burning-out and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.