(Topic ID: 224333)

WH20: Topper chase lights work but then slow down....Thoughts?

By delt31

5 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 22 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by delt31
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

#1 5 years ago

I've looked into this a little and after trying a few things, I thought I would open this up to the experts.

Originally my chase lights were very slow. They all worked but didn’t blink as fast as they should. I had the two light boards and chase driver board checked out by a great tech and they have been fixed so now, if i boot up my Whitewater after not being on for some time, the chase lights on the topper will work perfectly BUT then eventually slow down about 10 minutes of being on. When the power is first put on, not all of the lights will light up (some are off). After full boot up all the lights turn on and begin to flicker. Then the slowness begins about 10 min in.

My power driver board is original so no concern about the RD transistor issue. I checked both plugs on the power drive board and I don’t see any issues. My gut is that it’s something to do now with the power driver board. I did change the light boards around and I get the same slow pattern. Chase light driver board has both red LEDs on.

Any thoughts on next steps? Here is what it looks like:

Doesn't work (slow blinking):

Works:

#2 5 years ago

Why only 15 lamps? There should be 16.

Looks like a bad clock signal on the chase board. I'd suspect a bad LM339 at U1 as it's showing up on both sides. I'd replace U1 first and then look at the 74LS164 at U2 and U3 next.

#3 5 years ago
Quoted from schudel5:

Why only 15 lamps? There should be 16.
Looks like a bad clock signal on the chase board. I'd suspect a bad LM339 at U1 as it's showing up on both sides. I'd replace U1 first and then look at the 74LS164 at U2 and U3 next.

Good catch- the last lamp was recently fixed so all 16 now work.

Thanks for the suggestion. Are you talking about the actual chase driver board (little one)? If so, I did have that checked out by the tech and corrected.....do you think maybe there is still an issue?

#4 5 years ago
Quoted from delt31:

Thanks for the suggestion. Are you talking about the actual chase driver board (little one)? If so, I did have that checked out by the tech and corrected.....do you think maybe there is still an issue?

Yes the chase board located in the upper right of the backbox. It just looks like a clock signal from the video. If the clock signal coming into the board was wonky, I'd suspect you'd have issues with the game. The clock signal comes into the LM339 at U1 and then splits to both 74LS164 at U2 and U3. Probably hard to get your hands on another chase board to test and see if the issue is the same or different. This would really isolate the problem to the chase board or something further back on the CPU. I assume this is an original chase board and not an aftermarket?

#5 5 years ago
Quoted from schudel5:

Yes the chase board located in the upper right of the backbox. It just looks like a clock signal from the video. If the clock signal coming into the board was wonky, I'd suspect you'd have issues with the game. The clock signal comes into the LM339 at U1 and then splits to both 74LS164 at U2 and U3. Probably hard to get your hands on another chase board to test and see if the issue is the same or different. This would really isolate the problem to the chase board or something further back on the CPU. I assume this is an original chase board and not an aftermarket?

Yes original. I believe the technician socketed so I just need to find the relevant parts to buy. Do you have the link or name of the items?

#6 5 years ago

I think what you may want to do is make sure there isn't a problem elsewhere first. I know it's a royal PITA, but you can swap in your Getaway power driver board for the one in your WWater and see if the issue is the same or not. If it is then look at the chase board. If the problem goes away, then we need to look at the PDB next.

There is a clock signal and a data signal that come from the PDB J123 pins 4 and 5 respectively. The problem could lie with SOL27 (Q19/Q20) or SOL28 (Q25/Q26) as those are what are in front of the chase board.

#7 5 years ago

Yeah I was thinking it could be the pdb or Chase board. Just curious what would be the parts I need for either SOL on the pdb and the chase board? The chase board night be easiest since it's been socketed. I rather have all the parts rest to go.

Thanks

#10 5 years ago

EDIT - parts ordered. Will report back.

#11 5 years ago

update - I installed a new LM339 chip and now the lights are all blinking but it looks like the wrong pattern b/c it doesn't give me the effect as before. I will say the lights are blinking better though. See below. I bought the other items as well so I guess I can try those next but FYI in the event that helps clarify what the problem is...it's almost if I can just change the blinking pattern - not the frequency of the blinking as that seems to be fixed now.

1 week later
#12 5 years ago

Update - I bought a brand new chase board. Same issue! I tested the transistors power and I believe they are working as expected. Could it be the lamp boards the lights are plugged into? Maybe the cables? Should I change the transistors on the board anyway?

#13 5 years ago

You have the correct bulbs in right?

#14 5 years ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

You have the correct bulbs in right?

yep - the 194.

Previous owner put in LEDs - could that have damaged the lamp boards themselves? I'm just trying to figure out what is causing this b/c it works perfectly and then 10 min later it slows down. It's like something is getting hot and then faulting?

#15 5 years ago
Quoted from delt31:

yep - the 194.
Previous owner put in LEDs - could that have damaged the lamp boards themselves? I'm just trying to figure out what is causing this b/c it works perfectly and then 10 min later it slows down. It's like something is getting hot and then faulting?

No way the lamp boards are the issue imo... its the controller boards issue... possibly driver board or cpu but doubt it.

#16 5 years ago

well here is the latest - lamps seem to flash faster but it's the wrong pattern....haha. I guess power board....

#17 5 years ago

Yea that looks like hell.... did u get the new glm boards?

#18 5 years ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

Yea that looks like hell.... did u get the new glm boards?

I bought a brand new chase board from marco. I wouldn't think GLM's would change this - I was thinking power driver board (although transistors noted in this thread appeared to read OK).

#19 5 years ago
Quoted from delt31:

I bought a brand new chase board from marco. I wouldn't think GLM's would change this - I was thinking power driver board (although transistors noted in this thread appeared to read OK).

Hmm well im not sure what to tell u

#20 5 years ago

Did you follow schudel5’s advice and swap out your driver board from your getaway? Seems like it’s the only thing you haven’t eliminated concretely by testing it with another known working board.

Also, I’m curious, how does Your chase lighting behave in test mode?

#21 5 years ago

Great suggestion. I forgot about that. Just did the swap and sure enough the topper is perfect. It's def the power board. I will have that repaired but for the time being is it ok to play white water with the getaway per board?

Edit looks like they are

1 week later
#22 5 years ago

So it's fixed.... Finally. Had to go with the professionals on this one but appreciate all the help here!

Problem was Q21 and Q22 for those who might see this in the future and have the same issue.

All good. Perfect Wh20!

Promoted items from Pinside Marketplace and Pinside Shops!
From: $ 110.00
Lighting - Interactive
Pinball Z
 
$ 9.95
Lighting - Led
Mitchell Lighting
 
$ 12.95
Playfield - Decals
Pinball Pimp
 
From: $ 9.99
Eproms
Matt's Basement Arcade
 
$ 119.99
Cabinet - (Alt) Translites
FlyLand Designs
 
7,699 (OBO)
Machine - For Sale
Evansville, IN
$ 225.00
Cabinet - (Alt) Translites
FlyLand Designs
 
$ 30.00
Playfield - Other
YouBentMyWookie
 
$ 9.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
 
$ 69.50
Boards
Pinball Haus
 
$ 1,059.00
Flipper Parts
Mircoplayfields
 
$ 12.95
$ 5.95
Lighting - Led
Mitchell Lighting
 
$ 15.00
Playfield - Other
Nezzy's Pinball Prints
 
$ 34.99
Rubber/Silicone
NO GOUGE PINBALL™
 
$ 399.00
Cabinet - Decals
Mircoplayfields
 
15,000
Machine - For Sale
Ontario, CA
$ 30.00
Electronics
Yorktown Arcade Supply
 
$ 79.99
Cabinet - Armor And Blades
PinGraffix Pinside Shop
 
$ 199.95
Electronics
PinSound
 
$ 225.00
Lighting - Interactive
Professor Pinball
 
$ 189.00
Playfield - Plastics
Starcade Amusement
 
$ 10.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
 
$ 84.99
Cabinet - Armor And Blades
FlyLand Designs
 
$ 60.00
Cabinet - Decals
Pinball Haus
 
$ 27.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
 
12,610 (OBO)
Machine - For Sale
Mapleton, UT
7,400
Machine - For Sale
Castle Rock, CO
$ 329.99
Lighting - Other
Lighted Pinball Mods
 
Great pinball charity
Pinball Edu

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/wh20-topper-chase-lights-work-but-then-slow-downthoughts?hl=mbaumle and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.