Solar Flairs.

This is why games are put out on location as part of a field test. Bally, Williams, Gottlieb and Stern do/did this. It seems as if the "prototype" WoZ machines which were tested are not representative of the games being sold.

I work with safety-related electronic and electro-mechanical ("Mechatronic") devices and we perform exhaustive track testing prior to release. Even the slightest change in hardware or software results in a complete retest.

I will leave it at that since I don't want to be accused of bashing.

What are some of these switch errors? I haven't really seen any unexplainable switch problems on my woz or read about any in threads. I've heard about a few things with castle doors and monkey switch but none of it seems a like a problem or hard to explain. Perhaps I'm missing some of the issues though?

(Maybe you can add WoZ into the thread title someplace?)

The monkey switch issue occurs if you shut off the game with a ball in the monkey lock, upon startup, the door will open, release the ball and then open and close several times. In the next game played the monkey lock switch will not register. I believe this is simply a software bug that JJP is aware of, will be remedied in the next revision. Otherwise, I honestly haven't had or read about many switch issues.

This is very interesting to me. Thanks crash.

It would make sense for JJP to bring one of the "problem child" machines back to the factory for hands-on analysis; does anyone know if that has happened?

Does the Lock coil still not work? Did you try reinstalling 1.18?

I'm on the new platform and only had to adjust the monkey switches. There is only one switch at each end of the threaded mechanism behind the backboard, and the only way to adjust it is to bend the blade of it. The magnets releases seem to be on timers, not optos. So you have to get those switches bent perfectly to keep the timing of the release magnets proper by having the monkey traverse the threaded rod for the correct amount of time from end to end.

I did one adjustment for the spinning house and all is working perfectly now except for the occasional release of two balls from the multiball holder.

I'd say that the latest hardware has made this game much more consistant. Sorry to hear some other guys are still having issues. At least we do know that they are being worked on.

TaylorVA . . . yes, we went back to v1.18 and that didn't change anything. The same with v1.22, v1.23, v1.24.

Mike in Kentucky (owner of the pin)

I can shed some light on certain things that have happened to me.

LED boards - These are fun to replace and the 5V ones definitely fail. Replacing the 5V with the 7V boards fix the problems. I have noticed if you replace the first board in the chain with the newer 7V board you will have fewer problems with the older 5V boards failing.

Emerald City Lock - I have had this issue on all 3 WOZ machines. The lock will start losing track of the ball or will release more than one ball when the ramp is shot. Issue is with the bracket where the mini coil is attached bending out of shape. Pushing this bracket down fixes the issue all the time.

Monkey lock - Have had issues where the monkey takes the ball and drops it behind the door. The door doesn't open. The issue I have seen is that the set screws that hold the door to the motor just are not tight.

Random Skill Shot Award - The good witch switch. I don't know what it is about this switch but when it is stuck closed all types of goofy stuff happens. Especially with the witch shots. When the switch is adjusted correctly the game doesn't act up.

Winged Monkey Noise - Add Lithium grease to the screw shaft and it should not be as loud.

Sweeking Noise from Shaker Motor - The set screws that hold the counterweight to the motor shaft are starting to give. Re-tighten.

exflexer . . . that is some of the best 'fix' info I've seen for the problems with my WOZ. I'm kind of 'down' at the moment, in bed with the flu, but I can't wait to get to my pin and try working on that bracket for the EC Lock. That sounds so simple! I hope this is the case for my pin.

I will also check out the good witch switch. That could be another solution to the whacky pin play at times.

REALLY appreciate you weighing in on here!!!

Mike in Kentucky

Not having any issues with mine.

We're all in on the conspiracy, so we can't post. It's only a matter a matter of time before they come for me now...

In all seriousness, it's complex software with a million inputs outputs and an exponential number of different configurations for those inputs and outputs. Software bugs happen in any sized environment, but they're a lot harder to track down in a real time situation. You might have to recreate fifty steps before you realize... "Oh... hitting a pop bumper 7 times sets the haunted flag to true and triggers a light. When the next ball is popped out, I'm accidentally lighting a different insert, so now the software thinks 7 inserts are lit when there should only be 6, so when I try to light the twister insert the software autocorrects and shuts off the wicked witch light....."

Seriously, that's what most software bugs look like.

Honestly, there does not seem to be that many people having all the issues that you describe. Besides the light board issues with the early games, most of them have likely been switch issues that they resolved by adjusting.

Thanks for that info exflexer. I'm looking forward to bending that bracket for the multiball fix tonight. I already put some lithium grease on the threads for the flying monkey and it really helped.

Great post.

Don't let a few snarky posts derail your thread. There has already been some good tips that may help several people

IBTL.

Good working game at our place.

It wasn't any switch issues with my pin. Many failing (blown) boards, and no . . . replacing the old 5 volt ones with the new 7.5 volt ones did not change anything. I have no idea how many WOZ owners are having similar issues, but I do know that there are many. 'We' . . . communicate with each other. My pin once played flawlessly while others were having issues. I thought I had 'escaped' the problems. But when it came, it came with a vengeance! So, for all the WOZ owners whose pins play perfectly now and scoff at us 'few' people who post our issues, you may find yourself in the same boat someday soon. There is no guarantee your pin won't fail. I sure thought mine wouldn't.
Mike

I've had issues with board. At first it was just 15 but recently had 30 go. I'm not sure what to do other then replace them when they go. I personally haven't seen the issues you are having but certainly do feel for your situation. What is JJPs response to your amd other's issues?

They keep sending me new boards and little advice. I've replaced at least 20 small boards and 4 of the large ones.
Yeah . . . we 'see' each other on the WOZ forum. I keep up with your posts.
Mike

Sorry but this is pretty much irrelevant and has nothing to do with this thread. I'm not trying to be rude. But Crash detailed a very valid point and a bunch of "works fine here" posts do nothing but discount that and add distraction. No one is saying every game is borked. So the fact that yours works is great, but irrelevant to this thread.

That sucks. I'd try to get it back to them or ask for a tech to come out and figure it out.

VERY GOOD, MARKMON!!!! Well stated.

The comments that offer no help are . . . well . . . no help!
Mike

Sorry if it came across that way, but I was not meaning to sound like I was scoffing at your issues. I mentioned the light board issues with early games in my post. I understand that your game is not working the way it should. My point was that many of the issues people are having problems with such as the monkey and munchkin lock are often switch or mechanical adjustments.
Crash may be right and there could be some kind of surge/electrical issue with the older games that is causing strange behavior with other elements of the game beyond just the light boards, but there does not seem to be many people that have that kind of unexplainable problem.

By the way, I also don't understand why anybody would thumb down Crash for posting that he is surprised. He seems genuine in wanting to figure out what is wrong with his friend's game and likely was hoping to find some commonality between owners for use in troubleshooting the problems.

No problem, DCFAN. Right about the monkey switch. As for Crash, he is a very young person who has a genius brain for electronics. He drove a long way to try and help me with my pin. We both are 'fishing' for solutions.

See ya on the trail!
Mike

I know Markmon was thinking this way with his game, but I wonder if the only solution that will fix your game is to get all new 7.5 volt boards and power supply.
I wish you the best in getting everything in order.

I have a very early game with the 5 volt boards. I never had a single problem with the boards until 1.24. Soon after upgrading to the new software, I lost boards 15 and 16. I jumpered around them, and then boards 17 and 18 went out shortly thereafter. JJP sent me some new boards, which I used to replace 17 and 18. I'm waiting on a couple more boards in the mail. So far, the new boards are holding, but I honestly haven't played that many games with them yet.

Don't put words in my mouth.

I don't see anything irrelevant about posting I have a game with none of these problems. AFAIK none of the light boards or anything have been replaced with 7v.

Are you going to point out every irrelevant post in every thread from now on?

Has anyone ever determined what is wrong with the 5v boards?

Has anyone ever fixed a 5v board rather than return/replace it?

Has anyone seen the issue where the game just goes silent? You have to power cycle the game to get sound back. Also when you're playing it will just reboot like you'd power cycled the game. Anyone?

That's because of the new light shows in 1.24, specifically for extra ball and free game. Those extreme flashes draw a ton of voltage, I think, and the early boards, and even 7.5v boards without the voltage regulators built in can't handle it, so they blow (in more ways than one). The first EE for JJP really screwed the pooch with the design, and I'm not sure the right hand knew what the left hand was doing during the design. When they designed they boards, I'm not sure they saw blinding light shows in WOZ's future that would fry boards. I think THAT'S actually how all the problems are related.

JJP's first EE presented a permanent solution to the LED problem before he resigned - unfortunately
his words (like so many others) fell on deaf ears and the solution was not implemented.

I have had two reboots in two weeks. It seems like things are getting progressively worse. Yesterday was a bad day for my woz. The sound kept going in and out and it sounded real tinish. Then it rebooted. Then, in the middle of a high-scoring game, the large center insert got bright white and the bottom half of the playfield lights locked on. It looked like a regurgitated rainbow. At that point I turned the game off. I figured I'd try it out again today. It also seems like the flipper coils get progressively weaker the longer I play. No, it's not weak flipper mode either. I have the 7v boards and running 1.23.

From my understanding of the issue the power supplies voltage spikes which causes the controller chip in the middle of the board to fail. It seems that when replacing the boards in the beginning of the chain with the 7.5V version it prevents the 5V boards down the line to fail. I have 3 WOZ's with build dates in a month of each other with the exact same power supply and board version. The first WOZ I was replacing boards every week. When the second WOZ started to do the same thing I replaced the first board in the series along with the other failed board and the failures were not happening as often. When the third WOZ exhibited the same issue I didnt replace the beginning board right away and it had boards failing everyweek. When the first board was replaced the failures didn't happen as often again. I also believe that when the boards fail it puts more stress on the other boards that are still functional. The voltage spikes don't disperse as much with less functional boards.

i have experienced several issues, but first all solved fast and satisfactory, from Lloyd, Alex, Jen, and Staff.

I had power issues above, it was a bad power connector. I didnt find it, and it took the distributor, Curly, at LSOG, several hours to find. It was the pins inside the plastic connector that werent seated right..Thats hard to predict, its a small part, but vital one.

With sound, and reboot, I changed the outlets I was using in my house...I plugged into a different outlet. My furnace blower and wall socket were on the same breaker, and when the heat came on, which is rare in Florida, and WOZ was being played, the game would need resetting.

Now, with an external line conditioner...like $25, Zero reset or issues needing reset.

I have had boards go out, but thanks to the posts here, the first in line, I assume that is board #1?
Will be changed this weekend to 7 V. This makes so much sense to do, It should be made aware to all WOZ owners. I know it costs them to service us one at a time, but all 5V board owners, in my opinion should get two small boards. One, to replace the first in line, and the other as spare, leaving two spares. Doing this once, all at one time, might be better for them in cost then the constant interruptions to a daily work flow.

As an important note, if you havent replaced a board yet. Wait till your new ones arrive before shipping back. Youll need to reuse the mounting bracket.

Indeed, I have had to adjust switches, greased the Monkey, tinkered with the ball lock, but find this no different then Xmen, Tron, or other NIB. Minor stuff.it happens.

But Crash, thanks for getting as all to think and share, because the game does an amazing thing for Pinball.

I disagree.. all information is useful, including details on how many games work fine, how many have typical issues, and how many are basket cases. After reading this thread, there seem to be very few basket cases... pintucky's and who else? More information may help point to a commonality between the problematic games.

Yes Crash, if it hasnt been said enough times, thanks for going through all that you have done trying to analyze what could be happening.
Like others, I have had 5v bd problems...none since i have switched to 7.5....except for reboots when having a ton of modes going at one time and ending with tnplh (which seems to trigger bad behaviour on the game).
I for one appreciate your digging into this. No doubt this sucks for anyone having issues with THEIR game.

Would be nice of JJP to break the silence on this. I have a 5v system and would certainly like to know if they have figured out a solution or at least figured out the problem. Hearing that newer games are having issues would obviously lead one to believe that swapping in new boards is just a band aid.

This is common on many machines, not just WOZ. My Tron Pro flippers would go from way powerful to meh as they warmed up over the course of several long games. The coils heat up, expanding and increasing drag/friction while also become less efficient. I added fans to the Tron coils and it really helped. WOZ suffers a little flipper fade, but not as bad as overdriven, duty-cycled Sterns like ACDC and Tron. One thing that helps WOZ is removing the slippers from the bats - this reduces the weight of the bat and the flipper is snappier.

More info for anyone who might find it useful - I was seeing strange light glitches towards the bottom-left area, sometimes a bunch of lights would lock on briefly during a game. Vibration seemed to be a cause, and sure enough, board 18 was pushed against the left flipper bracket. I moved it away slightly and reseated all cables in the area, and the problem hasn't come back since (been about a week). 7.5 game built late Oct.

Greasing the monkey threaded rod helps. I used rubbing alcohol and cleaned the guide rod (non-threaded) - I think that one is supposed to run dry, but want to make sure. Cleaning it with alcohol helped quite the noisy monkey mech.

Can I use the 7.5 volt boards in my older game? I was under the impression that the power supply would need to be upgraded?