(Topic ID: 42660)

Week 3 My Avengers is Still Unplayable


By pinballwizardz

6 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 87 posts
  • 52 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by BrianBannon
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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There are 87 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.
#51 6 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

Yea. Another thread by someone that doesn't really want to solve his problem. I mean you can either work to solve your issue, or you can complain about your issue like you're a victim. Most people prefer to just complain. Very few seem to take initiative to solve problems.
In this case you have a choice. Don't play your game and wait for stern to hand hold you through the process. The problem will eventually be solved but it may be several weeks. You bought the game new and there is a warranty. You have every right to proceed this way. But if you do, do us a favor and STFU over it.
Or you can try to learn something from this and learn to debug and solve these types of issues yourself. There is a cost of ownership in owning pinballs. It's not a buy-it-and-play it hobby. If you want that, buy an Xbox or video game system. Your current issues are relatively easy to solve and you've had several suggestions but have taken none of them.
At this point, the reason you can't play your game is because of your choices.

Dial back the seething disdain a tad....yikes.

#52 6 years ago

Boy some of you guys are really harsh on the OP. Not everyone feels that comfortable or confident messing around with a "toy" that cost almost $7k. If you weren't a mechanic, would you feel fine going in and changing out a major component of your engine? Give the guy some slack.

I've also been down quite a long time, but Stern is shipping me out a board and new coil for Hulk. It seems it just wasn't getting enough power to the coil to throw the arms up high enough. So when it went to "find a stuck ball mode" it wasn't able to free up the balls (arms would move, but never enough to knock it free). So for over 3 weeks, I've had to take on the glass during every game. Good thing this wasn't on location. And whatever caused this, it got worse because now the arms stopped moving completely, and there is nothing lose underneath. It won't respond during the coil test now either. So should I get ridiculed because I can't fix this? I'm hopeful what they are sending will do the job. I just have to hope I can swap it out comfortably. I've swapped out ball trough opto boards and the main power I/O boards, but not everything on a pinball I feel comfortable doing.

#53 6 years ago

no sympathy for the op given his history...

that being said, if someone buys something "new", it is not unreasonable for them to expect that they won't have to fix it right out of the box...

for those who do think it is reasonable, do you feel that way about everything you buy?

#54 6 years ago
Quoted from ccotenj:

for those who do think it is reasonable, do you feel that way about everything you buy

Only one manufacturer at this point. Go JJP

If there was only one maker of cars would you ride a bike instead?

#55 6 years ago

^^^

nope, and not the point... it's not a "manufacturer specific point"... don't really care who the manufacturer is... the point is, it's unreasonable to expect someone to fix something that is "brand spanking new" themselves... and it's even more unreasonable to blast them for not wanting to...

to take your example... let's say there only one car manufacturer, and you bought a car from them... you pick it up, and it doesn't run... would you expect people to just say "fix it yourself"?

again, no sympathy at all for the op... karma sucks... but i do think that certain posters should re-examine their responses...

#56 6 years ago
Quoted from ccotenj:

that being said, if someone buys something "new", it is not unreasonable for them to expect that they won't have to fix it right out of the box...

My old life was high end AV. Systems from a couple grand to 200k plus. It was all tweaking. Almost nothing was plug and play.
When I decided to get in to pinball's I read enough to know that I would either need to learn a few things or be ready to pay for repairs. I have never heard of any pinball that did not need to be fixed.
Just is what it is.
In relation to the OP I have had folks here walk me through things and even had forum folks come over and help me out. Its two way street and worth driving on.

#57 6 years ago

Good arguments on both sides, but I think comparing pinball ownership to car ownership is unfair.

For many, a car is a necessity. When they need maintenance or break, the phone book has hundreds of listings for mechanics. Many of the tools and machines mechanics use are heavy, sophisticated, and expensive. Labor is expensive but competition is everywhere.

Pinball machines are a luxury. The tools to fix them are mostly inexpensive (multimeter, soldering station, screwdriver, wrench). There are tons of threads to help almost any issue (RGP, pinside) -- if you have a problem, I 100% guarantee someone has had the same issue and posted about it. Outside labor will be way more than a mechanic (lack of competition, limited expertise), but doing it yourself is free.

It's not easy, but it's supposed to be fun. If you're pissing and moaning all of the time, this hobby isn't for you.

#58 6 years ago
Quoted from ccotenj:

no sympathy for the op given his history...

And for the record, I wasn't looking at or considering his history. I believe we reap what we sow, so if he's done other things that warranted some of these responses, I won't argue that.

#59 6 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

My old life was high end AV. Systems from a couple grand to 200k plus. It was all tweaking. Almost nothing was plug and play.
When I decided to get in to pinball's I read enough to know that I would either need to learn a few things or be ready to pay for repairs. I have never heard of any pinball that did not need to be fixed.
Just is what it is.
In relation to the OP I have had folks here walk me through things and even had forum folks come over and help me out. Its two way street and worth driving on.

a man after my own heart... my "main hobby" is a/v, and my current theater has enough spent on it to buy a large collection of a-list pins...

not once have i taken a piece of a/v equipment out of the box, had it not work, and have someone tell me "fix it yourself"... if you had bought a high end projector (since you brought up high end), and it did not work out of the box, would you "fix it yourself"? or an amplifier? etc.

"tweaking" is a completely different story... i have spent hundreds (thousands?) of hours doing video calibrations, optimizing audio and optimizing the room.....however, that is not analogous to "fix broken equipment"... the equipment "worked"... getting it to perform it's best once placed in a room is up to the end user... as someone who was into "high end a/v", i'm sure you are aware of that, since unlike a pinball machine, "performance" of a/v equipment is highly dependent on the room it is placed in...

i may be a new person when it comes to pinball, but when it comes to a/v, i'm very well versed... that dog won't hunt... "tweaking" a/v is analogous to leveling a pin, not "fixing" a pin...

#60 6 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Dial back the seething disdain a tad....yikes.

FWIW (nothing I realize) I have to lean towards a Markmon point of view on this one.

At the very least this can be viewed as a karmic rebalance for this seller "creatively" trying to attract attention to his TMNT that was for sale.

And at pinside, we all know it is all about karma.

#61 6 years ago

The negativity directed at the OP here is absolutely appalling. He bought a game brand new that was f***ed out of the box. He has every right to complain, and to keep complaining until it's fixed.

If I was in his situation, I'd be on the phone with Stern once every couple days 'til they had a tech out to fix the game, or swapped it out for one that works.

I'm not at all opposed to tinkering with games to get them working, but he simply shouldn't have to do that with a brand new game.

#62 6 years ago
Quoted from Collin:

If I was in his situation,

But you wouldnt be, correct? As you would never buy a Stern.

#63 6 years ago

No mercy for this guy. OP is a class A punk, just look at that TMNT thread. Seriuosly? Turns out the OP is also a nancy who can't even remove a lockdown bar. As mentioned before, he deserves this crap Avengers Pro and its issues.

#64 6 years ago
Quoted from Collin:

The negativity directed at the OP here is absolutely appalling. He bought a game brand new that was f***ed out of the box. He has every right to complain, and to keep complaining until it's fixed.

It wasn't f***ed out of the box. He mentioned in another thread he had several plays on it.

Quoted from Collin:

If I was in his situation, I'd be on the phone with Stern once every couple days 'til they had a tech out to fix the game, or swapped it out for one that works.

So many problems with this:
1) Stern isn't obligated to fix every switch that gets broken or needs tweaking. Not according to the warranty anyway.

2) If all the OP was doing was contacting Stern every day, then at least we wouldn't have to see multiple threads complaining about it, and him ignoring support people are trying to give.

3) From my (limited) understanding, having to tweak things or even fix things for pins, even fresh out of the box, is absolutely nothing new to pinball. Reasons are common sense (hand assembled, stuff moves in shipping, etc). Anyone who was buying NIB back in the Williams can correct me if I'm wrong.

However what *is* new is people knowing absolutely nothing (nor willing to learn anything) about fixing/adjusting pinball, buying NIB machines where previously ops, who had tech people or were techy themselves, just fixed the issues without all the forum drama. Hilarity ensues...

#65 6 years ago
Quoted from Collin:

The negativity directed at the OP here is absolutely appalling

I am a punky curmudgeon at times, but believe it or not the amount of disdain poured onto the OP has to be earned. And earn it he has.

Quoted from Collin:

He has every right to complain, and to keep complaining until it's fixed.

He has every right to be an ignorant POS as well, who is unwilling to be honest with other members and even lift a finger or expand his mind to help himself. And I have every right to not be cuddly with him because of it.

#66 6 years ago

now THAT'S fu@&ed up!

feed him to the hounds.

#68 6 years ago

#69 6 years ago
Quoted from ccotenj:

i may be a new person when it comes to pinball, but when it comes to a/v, i'm very well versed... that dog won't hunt... "tweaking" a/v is analogous to leveling a pin, not "fixing" a pin...

Not disagreeing but again Pinball will require this kind of fixing/Tweeking. To me the similarity was reading post how someone spent 18k on a turntable but did not know how to balance the arm and was pissed because the needle scratched a classic recording. Or the 25k projector that was unwatchable until they learned to calibrate or in many cases paid a tech $150 to come do that for them. Heck a 30k Home theater that needed a tech to calibrate the room for them before it would sound right.
Just using a hobby I know well and seeing similarities in the need to either learn to be technical or prepare to pay. That does not mean a game should not work new out of the box but it does mean in this world of flying steel balls know in advance the glass will have to come off or dont play. Or, prepare to pay.

#70 6 years ago
Quoted from bigehrl:

feed him to the hounds.

What do you have against hounds to feed them that?

#71 6 years ago

Well I see it as you can't have your cake and eat it, too.

How many of you complain about Pinball manufacturer XYZ for being cheap, using cheap(er) materials, etc. And then come on here and say as a pinball buyer, you have to expect to fix some things right out of the box.

That's a dangerous path to go down - the more you "expect" a few things to be broken out of the box, the more they will be. If manufacturers are not held accountable, it will only get worse. Once they start spending money on technicians going out to redo solder joints, reconnect wires, make adjustments, etc - the better the quality control will be with the manufacturer process. Yes, every now and then something SMALL should happen (plastic piece becomes unglued on playfield, glue it back on, etc). But as far as the electronics - it should not happen. There are ways to ensure this.

#72 6 years ago

I got news for you...

When you buy a NIB game you will probably have to do some tweaking to it. Just the nature of the game. Some of it should be caught by Stern, but some of it is just going to slip by.

It is a Pinball machine, complicated stuff going on. Then it gets boxed up and sent across the country. shit happens.

#73 6 years ago
Quoted from ccotenj:

^^^
nope, and not the point... it's not a "manufacturer specific point"... don't really care who the manufacturer is... the point is, it's unreasonable to expect someone to fix something that is "brand spanking new" themselves... and it's even more unreasonable to blast them for not wanting to...
to take your example... let's say there only one car manufacturer, and you bought a car from them... you pick it up, and it doesn't run... would you expect people to just say "fix it yourself"?
again, no sympathy at all for the op... karma sucks... but i do think that certain posters should re-examine their responses...

Dealerships prep their vehicles for sale, and that includes fixing anything that broke during shipment or items that came defective from the factory.

If that's the kind of service you want, buy your games from a retailer who will go through the game and make sure everything is good before delivery.

#74 6 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

Not disagreeing but again Pinball will require this kind of fixing/Tweeking. To me the similarity was reading post how someone spent 18k on a turntable but did not know how to balance the arm and was pissed because the needle scratched a classic recording. Or the 25k projector that was unwatchable until they learned to calibrate or in many cases paid a tech $150 to come do that for them. Heck a 30k Home theater that needed a tech to calibrate the room for them before it would sound right.
Just using a hobby I know well and seeing similarities in the need to either learn to be technical or prepare to pay. That does not mean a game should not work new out of the box but it does mean in this world of flying steel balls know in advance the glass will have to come off or dont play. Or, prepare to pay.

fair enough...

#75 6 years ago
Quoted from jonnyo:

Dealerships prep their vehicles for sale, and that includes fixing anything that broke during shipment or items that came defective from the factory.
If that's the kind of service you want, buy your games from a retailer who will go through the game and make sure everything is good before delivery.

not buying that excuse, sorry...

#76 6 years ago
Quoted from Eryeal:

Well I see it as you can't have your cake and eat it, too.
How many of you complain about Pinball manufacturer XYZ for being cheap, using cheap(er) materials, etc. And then come on here and say as a pinball buyer, you have to expect to fix some things right out of the box.
That's a dangerous path to go down - the more you "expect" a few things to be broken out of the box, the more they will be. If manufacturers are not held accountable, it will only get worse. Once they start spending money on technicians going out to redo solder joints, reconnect wires, make adjustments, etc - the better the quality control will be with the manufacturer process. Yes, every now and then something SMALL should happen (plastic piece becomes unglued on playfield, glue it back on, etc). But as far as the electronics - it should not happen. There are ways to ensure this.

this...

you can't gripe outta one side out of your mouth about the quality of new games, yet turn around and say it's ok that they come non-functional...

#77 6 years ago
Quoted from paul_8788:

However what *is* new is people knowing absolutely nothing (nor willing to learn anything) about fixing/adjusting pinball, buying NIB machines where previously ops, who had tech people or were techy themselves, just fixed the issues without all the forum drama. Hilarity ensues...

Isn't that the new Stern business model?

#78 6 years ago
Quoted from ccotenj:

for those who do think it is reasonable, do you feel that way about everything you buy?

Anything that costs any significant amount of money? Yes

#79 6 years ago

As soon as Stern started marketing The Pin to this market, they should expect people to expect a turn key product. For the new higher price levels and mark ups they are charging, they should have replacement costs and repair expenditures built in.

This doesn't look like a group of operators to me- and they shouldn't be treated as such.

Pinball_Stern.png

#80 6 years ago

ok pinballwizardz, I just unboxed a brand new HULK #202, and out of the box the LOKI lock was prairie dogging like crazy

Here's the fix. There are three small optos embedded in the bottom of the ramp right before the lock pin. The optos are all on one opto board which is attached to the ramp with two screws. Mine was mis-aligned in the ramp by no more than a hair causing one of the optos to mis-fire off the ramp with no ball there. Just loosen the two screws, align the opto board properly in the ramp, and boom, no more problem, and definitely not a board issue.

FWIW someone mentioned already that it was likely optos, and it certainly was in my case

Good luck!

#81 6 years ago
Quoted from jimjim66:

As soon as Stern started marketing The Pin to this market

I Thought it was a joke when I first saw this thing , But they are accually making it and it costs $2,500 , That is insane .

#82 6 years ago
Quoted from jimjim66:

Anything that costs any significant amount of money? Yes

so if you spend a significant amount of money on something, your expectation is that it's ok that you should have to fix it yourself right out of the box? but if it is cheap, it should work correctly right out of the box and/or the manufacturer should take responsibilty for making sure you have a functional product?

oddly enough, i feel differently...

#83 6 years ago

"so if you spend a significant amount of money on something, your expectation is that it's ok that you should have to fix it yourself right out of the box? but if it is cheap, it should work correctly right out of the box and/or the manufacturer should take responsibilty for making sure you have a functional product?

oddly enough, i feel differently..."

No, if I spend a significant amount of money, I should NOT have to spend anything. I would expect it to work like it should, and if I did not have the skills to fix it, I would expect the company to make it right because I paid a significant amount of money.

If I did not spend a significant amount of money and it did not work correctly, I would bring it back to the store and either get a refund or replacement like I did with my trimmer I got from Home Depot last week.

Both examples I am not accepting items that don't work. Pinball machines because of size and shipping costs are probably best fixed by a technician at the cost of the company if it is the company's fault the item is not working correctly.

#85 6 years ago
Quoted from jimjim66:

"so if you spend a significant amount of money on something, your expectation is that it's ok that you should have to fix it yourself right out of the box? but if it is cheap, it should work correctly right out of the box and/or the manufacturer should take responsibilty for making sure you have a functional product?
oddly enough, i feel differently..."
No, if I spend a significant amount of money, I should NOT have to spend anything. I would expect it to work like it should, and if I did not have the skills to fix it, I would expect the company to make it right because I paid a significant amount of money.
If I did not spend a significant amount of money and it did not work correctly, I would bring it back to the store and either get a refund or replacement like I did with my trimmer I got from Home Depot last week.
Both examples I am not accepting items that don't work. Pinball machines because of size and shipping costs are probably best fixed by a technician at the cost of the company if it is the company's fault the item is not working correctly.

ah, ok... i believe we are on the same page then...

#86 6 years ago
Quoted from Collin:

The negativity directed at the OP here is absolutely appalling. He bought a game brand new that was f***ed out of the box. He has every right to complain, and to keep complaining until it's fixed.
If I was in his situation, I'd be on the phone with Stern once every couple days 'til they had a tech out to fix the game, or swapped it out for one that works.
I'm not at all opposed to tinkering with games to get them working, but he simply shouldn't have to do that with a brand new game.

Items on cars get recalled all the time. And sometimes they just release a bulletin that there is an issue, but no safety. They just tell you how to fix it. Same idea.

#87 6 years ago
Quoted from DougPiranha:

Hello-

Brian Bannon's Hulk has been broke almost every day since he got it. Mine has been pretty good but this cheesy drop target ledge looks destin to break. You would hope they would build in more quality but, it is what it is and I still buy em.

To be clear, my Hulk has had a fair amount of problems. I was able to fix these issues on location, or after being sent replacement parts. Eventually, anything on the game that is suspect will break, stronger parts will be designed/sent to replace them and all the issues will settle down.

One thing no one seems to have mentioned is the amount of time invested in the repairs. Sure, I can fix the game, but do I really want to invest such a disproportionate amount of time to one piece of equipment every week? No, I don't. I service 14 pieces of equipment at this location, including 12 pins. Hulk ranks about 4th or 5th each week among all the equipment in earnings, but is a clear 1st in amount of repairs and maintenance.

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