(Topic ID: 298208)

Weak flippers and pop bumpers on a Super Spin 1977

By denisn72

2 years ago


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  • 26 posts
  • 11 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by denisn72
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#1 2 years ago

Hi everyone !!

A friend of mine has a Gottlieb Super Spin 1977. The flippers and the pop bumpers are weak. The transfo is connected on the high tap. The multimeter reads 31.5 volts at the flippers output. I must mention there are new coils (A-5141) for the flippers, brand new EOS switches, brand new contacts for the flipper buttons too. We wonder why the flippers are still not strong as they should?

Any help would be appreciated.

#2 2 years ago

Is this a newly developed problem (Like after the new coils and switches) or a problem that has been around?

#3 2 years ago

Likely the adjustment on the EOS switches.

#4 2 years ago
Quoted from hjh632:

Is this a newly developed problem (Like after the new coils and switches) or a problem that has been around?

Thanks hjh633.

Before and after new coils nothing changed.

Quoted from hjh632:

Is this a newly developed problem (Like after the new coils and switches) or a problem that has been around?

#5 2 years ago

I know on ss gottliebs I've seen the game over relay having bad contacts can cause this symptom. Not sure on ems.

#6 2 years ago

There are a number of common causes for weak flippers. However, you report the pop bumpers are similarly weak?

Do the slingshots seem weak also?
If so, the issue is most likely a voltage drop across a switch along the right side vertical buss on the schematic.

#7 2 years ago

I had the same thing, weak flippers, pops, spin unit. Previous owner had cut the main line where it ran through the back box and just twisted it together. Once soldered all was 100%.

#8 2 years ago

I didn’t hear anything about the flipper links being changed. They might be full of slop.

#9 2 years ago
Quoted from Runbikeskilee:

There are a number of common causes for weak flippers. However, you report the pop bumpers are similarly weak?
Do the slingshots seem weak also?
If so, the issue is most likely a voltage drop across a switch along the right side vertical buss on the schematic.

The slingshots are ok. "a voltage drop across a switch along the right side vertical buss"...I need to check this out. Many thanks

#10 2 years ago
Quoted from hjh632:

I had the same thing, weak flippers, pops, spin unit. Previous owner had cut the main line where it ran through the back box and just twisted it together. Once soldered all was 100%.

That's interesting!

#11 2 years ago

How big is the gap in your flipper EOS switches when they are energized?

#12 2 years ago

First out of the 25v line would be the 15 amp fuse, probably red wire on one side of it red/white to the other side so I'd check that for corrosion or being loose. After that, best check your schematic if you have one, for the next circuit up the line. Could be that although you see the voltage as being what it is at the flipper coil, it could be dropping under load hence the machine isnt getting its full 25v or whatever 28v? the hi-tap gives out. And as it's not just your flippers, it sounds like you have a voltage drop, as others have suggested.

#13 2 years ago
Quoted from JethroP:

How big is the gap in your flipper EOS switches when they are energized?

Hi JethroP! The gap is 3/32.

#14 2 years ago
Quoted from Vintage-Pinball:

First out of the 25v line would be the 15 amp fuse, probably red wire on one side of it red/white to the other side so I'd check that for corrosion or being loose. After that, best check your schematic if you have one, for the next circuit up the line. Could be that although you see the voltage as being what it is at the flipper coil, it could be dropping under load hence the machine isnt getting its full 25v or whatever 28v? the hi-tap gives out. And as it's not just your flippers, it sounds like you have a voltage drop, as others have suggested.

Hi Classicpinballs, I like what you suggest to do. I have the schematic but not the machine in front of me yet. Once my friend brings me his machine, i will check this out! Thanks a lot.

1 week later
#15 2 years ago

update?

#16 2 years ago

Not yet. Don't worry, I'll give a feedback once I have the machine at home.

#17 2 years ago

Can he measure the voltage at the high tap and normal tap directly at the transformer?

Or maybe switch it to normal tap and see if it just gets even weaker or improves because the hi tap has a problem. What is your line voltage?

#18 2 years ago

I would check that the switches are clean and tight along the path to the coils. So Hold relay, bounce switch, fuse holder, O-relay, AX relays. etc. Look at your schematic.

Look at VID's guide to rebuilding flippers and pop bumpers to ensure the gap is correct for the switches for both pop bumper and the flippers.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-upgradingrebuilding-flippers

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-rebuilding-pop-bumpers

1 week later
#19 2 years ago

I wonder if some owners of this game dampen the pop bumpers to prevent the re-sinking of the bonus kick out hole. You see a lot of these machines with a terrible scar between the lower bumper and kick out hole because of too many repeat kick outs. My Jet Spin seems in perfect working order, but the pop bumpers are weaker than any of my other Gottliebs. Wondering if it's been done on purpose.

#20 2 years ago
Quoted from frenchmarky:

Can he measure the voltage at the high tap and normal tap directly at the transformer?
Or maybe switch it to normal tap and see if it just gets even weaker or improves because the hi tap has a problem. What is your line voltage?

Hi frenchmarky,

The line voltage is 120. The normal tap voltage is 28 and the high tap voltage is 31.

#21 2 years ago
Quoted from ArgosySK:

I would check that the switches are clean and tight along the path to the coils. So Hold relay, bounce switch, fuse holder, O-relay, AX relays. etc. Look at your schematic.
Look at VID's guide to rebuilding flippers and pop bumpers to ensure the gap is correct for the switches for both pop bumper and the flippers.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-upgradingrebuilding-flippers
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-rebuilding-pop-bumpers

Hi argosySK,

Thanks for the good advice; I will do!

#22 2 years ago
Quoted from blibb:

I wonder if some owners of this game dampen the pop bumpers to prevent the re-sinking of the bonus kick out hole. You see a lot of these machines with a terrible scar between the lower bumper and kick out hole because of too many repeat kick outs. My Jet Spin seems in perfect working order, but the pop bumpers are weaker than any of my other Gottliebs. Wondering if it's been done on purpose.

Hi blibb,

It is absolutely possible that some owners dampen the pop bumpers.

#23 2 years ago

I doubt any serious owner would intentionally lower the power to the pop bumpers in order to prevent the ball from cycling between the right most bumper and the kick-out hole, but strange people are out there. The proper fix would be to adjust the kick-out trajectory by bending the kicker arm slightly so that the ball is not launched directly at the pop bumper , thus causing it to rebound back at the hole. Would only require a 0.5 mm adjustment to fix that issue.

1 month later
#24 2 years ago

I now have another hint about the problem. When we start a game everything is fine and the flippers are ok. After playing 2 or 3 games we can hear a sound "clic". At that moment, the flippers are weak. It is possibly the activation of a relay which makes that noise. May be there is a short circuit including two contacts when the relay energises. I have to find wich one is causing this.

#25 2 years ago

Are any of the score relays in the head of the game locked on when this happens?

1 month later
#26 2 years ago

Everything is working well now. I do no know exactly what it was. But I know what I did. I made new solders all around the transfo, put a new power cord, cleaned the two main connectors, rebuilt the pop bumpers with new coils and new switches. I also made new solders for both ends of each fuse holder. Thanks to all of you for your help.

I was also very saddened by the death of a well known person on Pinside who has helped others a lot with their pinball issues. RIP Ken Layton.

https://pinside.com/pinball/community/pinsiders/kenlayton

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