Super Spin
Gottlieb, 1977Hi everyone !!
A friend of mine has a Gottlieb Super Spin 1977. The flippers and the pop bumpers are weak. The transfo is connected on the high tap. The multimeter reads 31.5 volts at the flippers output. I must mention there are new coils (A-5141) for the flippers, brand new EOS switches, brand new contacts for the flipper buttons too. We wonder why the flippers are still not strong as they should?
Any help would be appreciated.
Is this a newly developed problem (Like after the new coils and switches) or a problem that has been around?
Quoted from hjh632:Is this a newly developed problem (Like after the new coils and switches) or a problem that has been around?
Thanks hjh633.
Before and after new coils nothing changed.
Quoted from hjh632:Is this a newly developed problem (Like after the new coils and switches) or a problem that has been around?
I know on ss gottliebs I've seen the game over relay having bad contacts can cause this symptom. Not sure on ems.
There are a number of common causes for weak flippers. However, you report the pop bumpers are similarly weak?
Do the slingshots seem weak also?
If so, the issue is most likely a voltage drop across a switch along the right side vertical buss on the schematic.
I had the same thing, weak flippers, pops, spin unit. Previous owner had cut the main line where it ran through the back box and just twisted it together. Once soldered all was 100%.
Quoted from Runbikeskilee:There are a number of common causes for weak flippers. However, you report the pop bumpers are similarly weak?
Do the slingshots seem weak also?
If so, the issue is most likely a voltage drop across a switch along the right side vertical buss on the schematic.
The slingshots are ok. "a voltage drop across a switch along the right side vertical buss"...I need to check this out. Many thanks
Quoted from hjh632:I had the same thing, weak flippers, pops, spin unit. Previous owner had cut the main line where it ran through the back box and just twisted it together. Once soldered all was 100%.
That's interesting!
First out of the 25v line would be the 15 amp fuse, probably red wire on one side of it red/white to the other side so I'd check that for corrosion or being loose. After that, best check your schematic if you have one, for the next circuit up the line. Could be that although you see the voltage as being what it is at the flipper coil, it could be dropping under load hence the machine isnt getting its full 25v or whatever 28v? the hi-tap gives out. And as it's not just your flippers, it sounds like you have a voltage drop, as others have suggested.
Quoted from Vintage-Pinball:First out of the 25v line would be the 15 amp fuse, probably red wire on one side of it red/white to the other side so I'd check that for corrosion or being loose. After that, best check your schematic if you have one, for the next circuit up the line. Could be that although you see the voltage as being what it is at the flipper coil, it could be dropping under load hence the machine isnt getting its full 25v or whatever 28v? the hi-tap gives out. And as it's not just your flippers, it sounds like you have a voltage drop, as others have suggested.
Hi Classicpinballs, I like what you suggest to do. I have the schematic but not the machine in front of me yet. Once my friend brings me his machine, i will check this out! Thanks a lot.
Can he measure the voltage at the high tap and normal tap directly at the transformer?
Or maybe switch it to normal tap and see if it just gets even weaker or improves because the hi tap has a problem. What is your line voltage?
I would check that the switches are clean and tight along the path to the coils. So Hold relay, bounce switch, fuse holder, O-relay, AX relays. etc. Look at your schematic.
Look at VID's guide to rebuilding flippers and pop bumpers to ensure the gap is correct for the switches for both pop bumper and the flippers.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-upgradingrebuilding-flippers
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-rebuilding-pop-bumpers
I wonder if some owners of this game dampen the pop bumpers to prevent the re-sinking of the bonus kick out hole. You see a lot of these machines with a terrible scar between the lower bumper and kick out hole because of too many repeat kick outs. My Jet Spin seems in perfect working order, but the pop bumpers are weaker than any of my other Gottliebs. Wondering if it's been done on purpose.
Quoted from frenchmarky:Can he measure the voltage at the high tap and normal tap directly at the transformer?
Or maybe switch it to normal tap and see if it just gets even weaker or improves because the hi tap has a problem. What is your line voltage?
Hi frenchmarky,
The line voltage is 120. The normal tap voltage is 28 and the high tap voltage is 31.
Quoted from ArgosySK:I would check that the switches are clean and tight along the path to the coils. So Hold relay, bounce switch, fuse holder, O-relay, AX relays. etc. Look at your schematic.
Look at VID's guide to rebuilding flippers and pop bumpers to ensure the gap is correct for the switches for both pop bumper and the flippers.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-upgradingrebuilding-flippers
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-rebuilding-pop-bumpers
Hi argosySK,
Thanks for the good advice; I will do!
Quoted from blibb:I wonder if some owners of this game dampen the pop bumpers to prevent the re-sinking of the bonus kick out hole. You see a lot of these machines with a terrible scar between the lower bumper and kick out hole because of too many repeat kick outs. My Jet Spin seems in perfect working order, but the pop bumpers are weaker than any of my other Gottliebs. Wondering if it's been done on purpose.
Hi blibb,
It is absolutely possible that some owners dampen the pop bumpers.
I doubt any serious owner would intentionally lower the power to the pop bumpers in order to prevent the ball from cycling between the right most bumper and the kick-out hole, but strange people are out there. The proper fix would be to adjust the kick-out trajectory by bending the kicker arm slightly so that the ball is not launched directly at the pop bumper , thus causing it to rebound back at the hole. Would only require a 0.5 mm adjustment to fix that issue.
I now have another hint about the problem. When we start a game everything is fine and the flippers are ok. After playing 2 or 3 games we can hear a sound "clic". At that moment, the flippers are weak. It is possibly the activation of a relay which makes that noise. May be there is a short circuit including two contacts when the relay energises. I have to find wich one is causing this.
Everything is working well now. I do no know exactly what it was. But I know what I did. I made new solders all around the transfo, put a new power cord, cleaned the two main connectors, rebuilt the pop bumpers with new coils and new switches. I also made new solders for both ends of each fuse holder. Thanks to all of you for your help.
I was also very saddened by the death of a well known person on Pinside who has helped others a lot with their pinball issues. RIP Ken Layton.
https://pinside.com/pinball/community/pinsiders/kenlayton
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East Broughton, QC
Linton
Moreno Valley, CA