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(Topic ID: 206577)

Weak Flippers after Rottendog WPC89 Driver Board Replacement


By nipper2u

2 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 27 posts
  • 9 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by hocuslocus
  • Topic is favorited by 4 Pinsiders

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#1 2 years ago

Hello,

I just did a swap of the original driver board with a new Rottendog driver board in my Judge Dredd. After that one change all 4 flippers are extremely weak. They move reluctantly, but not with enough power to actually move the ball. I didn't see any switches or adjustments on the board and the flippers were working fine before I did the swap. What would cause this and what is the solution?

For reference: WDB089 - Driver Board compatible with Williams WPC89 and WPC-S pinball games. The boards that this replaces are Bally / Williams part numbers A-12697-1, A-12697-3, and A-12697-4.

Thanks for your time!

#2 2 years ago

Why did you replace the driver board?

#3 2 years ago

Go into the switch edge test and press the left flipper button. Do they register as left or right?

#4 2 years ago

Crazy idea but do you have a space heater running on the same circuit if so unplug - should be universal but I have always been able to reach out to rotten dog for limited support on issues.

#5 2 years ago

check the fuses on the power board. Is one of them in the high power circuit blown?

#6 2 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Why did you replace the driver board?

I picked this JD up after being routed for a few years. Recently F116 (12v) started blowing some-what randomly. While I was told replacing the power driver board wouldn't necessarily fix this issue, when there was a site-wide sale on Black Friday I thought I would go ahead and replace the original power driver board since some of the other boards have already been replaced with Rottendog boards.

Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Go into the switch edge test and press the left flipper button. Do they register as left or right?

Switch test shows "L" and "UL" for Left flipper and "R" and "UR" for Right flipper. I am not that familiar with the tests, but I was not able to get any other tests to fire solenoids or flippers. Only the deadworld would slowly rotate no matter what test I chose - ? This is similar to an issue I had when I first brought it home and there was an unnecessary wire plugged into "J136". I have checked and double-checked the plugs and all seems to check out currently, at least with how the original board was plugged up.

Quoted from coz6:

Crazy idea but do you have a space heater running on the same circuit if so unplug - should be universal but I have always been able to reach out to rotten dog for limited support on issues.

Nothing else but another pin plugged into the circuit. Both were working fine until I changed the driver board and now JD is failing. Good idea - I will contact Rottendog tomorrow.

Quoted from JDD:

check the fuses on the power board. Is one of them in the high power circuit blown?

This powerboard had all new fuses so I didn't bother to check or replace them. When F116 blew in the past the ColorDMD went out and the solenoids went off, and that isn't happening - just weak flippers. How do I identify other high power fuses so I can see if they have been blown? Is it just F115?

Thank you all for your responses.

#7 2 years ago
Quoted from nipper2u:

I picked this JD up after being routed for a few years. Recently F116 (12v) started blowing some-what randomly. While I was told replacing the power driver board wouldn't necessarily fix this issue, when there was a site-wide sale on Black Friday I thought I would go ahead and replace the original power driver board since some of the other boards have already been replaced with Rottendog boards.

Switch test shows "L" and "UL" for Left flipper and "R" and "UR" for Right flipper. I am not that familiar with the tests, but I was not able to get any other tests to fire solenoids or flippers. Only the deadworld would slowly rotate no matter what test I chose - ? This is similar to an issue I had when I first brought it home and there was an unnecessary wire plugged into "J136". I have checked and double-checked the plugs and all seems to check out currently, at least with how the original board was plugged up.

Nothing else but another pin plugged into the circuit. Both were working fine until I changed the driver board and now JD is failing. Good idea - I will contact Rottendog tomorrow.

This powerboard had all new fuses so I didn't bother to check or replace them. When F116 blew in the past the ColorDMD went out and the solenoids went off, and that isn't happening - just weak flippers. How do I identify other high power fuses so I can see if they have been blown? Is it just F115?
Thank you all for your responses.

Check the fuses - RD sometimes makes a mistake or two and ships the wrong fuse installed and it blows on start. I would swap boards back and see if behavior changes after fuses - sometimes you forget you did x while waiting on the board and something like a wire on a coil can come loose.

#8 2 years ago

Weak flippers for all flippers are caused by low voltage on the 12V unregulated supply. This is the same supply that is connected to F116.

This is an unregulated supply and the voltage will drop as the current load increases due to resistive losses through the bridge rectifier. If you're running too many mods off the 12V supply, it will cause the voltage to drop and could cause the fuse at F116 to blow.

Check the voltage at TP1 (upper left corner of the driver board) to see if it's low (under 12.5V). If you have other mods like LED light strips, try unplugging them to see if it resolves the problem.

#9 2 years ago
Quoted from nipper2u:

Switch test shows "L" and "UL" for Left flipper and "R" and "UR" for Right flipper

Good. This just ruled out you having an older Rottendog board that requires a mod. No issue on this at least.

Unfortunately, the Rottendog board is not supplying much more current than the original driver board. Put all your mods, except the ColorDMD on an external power supply.

#10 2 years ago
Quoted from nipper2u:

I picked this JD up after being routed for a few years. Recently F116 (12v) started blowing some-what randomly. While I was told replacing the power driver board wouldn't necessarily fix this issue, when there was a site-wide sale on Black Friday I thought I would go ahead and replace the original power driver board since some of the other boards have already been replaced with Rottendog boards.

Switch test shows "L" and "UL" for Left flipper and "R" and "UR" for Right flipper. I am not that familiar with the tests, but I was not able to get any other tests to fire solenoids or flippers. This is similar to an issue I had when I first brought it home and there was an unnecessary wire plugged into "J136". I have checked and double-checked the plugs and all seems to check out currently, at least with how the original board was plugged up.

Nothing else but another pin plugged into the circuit. Both were working fine until I changed the driver board and now JD is failing. Good idea - I will contact Rottendog tomorrow.

This powerboard had all new fuses so I didn't bother to check or replace them. When F116 blew in the past the ColorDMD went out and the solenoids went off, and that isn't happening - just weak flippers. How do I identify other high power fuses so I can see if they have been blown? Is it just F115?
Thank you all for your responses.

You may have already deified your problem with the: "Only the deadworld would slowly rotate no matter" may be drawing to much power. Try unplugging motor.

#11 2 years ago

List all the mods that are using this 12v unreg power.

#12 2 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

List all the mods that are using this 12v unreg power.

This JD has:
- ColorDMD (brightness turned down to minimum)
- OCDLED board - it is my understanding these boards do not draw any more power than the LED bulbs do - ?
- OCDGI board - it is my understanding these boards do not draw any more power than the LED bulbs do - ?
- Pinnovators Pinsub board - this adds a phono out plug (which I have connected to a powered sub). I assumed this would not draw power the way it is plugged up but I can try removing it.

Do any of these raise red flags?

Next steps I plan to swap out fuses on the new board and remove the Pinsub board to see what difference that makes. I will also check the voltage at TP1. I had checked this previously on the old board and it was at an acceptable reading but will check again.

Thank you all again for your comments and suggestions.

#13 2 years ago

Measuring the voltage when the game at idle, only tells part of the story. Monitor TP1 as you play the game to see if it dips. Obvliously, you have to remove one or two mods just to get the game runnimg since you currently have weak flippers.

#14 2 years ago

Please keep in mind that the flippers were fine before I changed out the power driver board. I swapped out most of the fuses last night (I only had a few 3A fuses) and removed the Pinsub board and it made no difference to the flippers or to the tests under the test menu. I have read nothing but good things about RD boards but I might have a bad one - ?

#15 2 years ago

Ok, so I spoke with Jim at Rottendog. Both him and Jared were great to talk to, very patient, and very responsive. The voltage at TP1 as well as all other checkpoints on the power driver board all checked out. However, voltage on the Fliptronics board was 17.1V at all of the fuses and 10.4V at the main power connector J904. So not enough power coming in there. I raised the PF and opened\reconnected all 3 molex connectors out of the main power supply with no improvement. Anyone know if the inadequate voltage has to be due to my main power supply or could it be something else? Do the power supplies go out after 25+ years?

Thanks again for your input.

#16 2 years ago

Do not know what you are referring to when you say main power supply. Do you mean Transformer? Very rarely does a Transformer actually fail

#17 2 years ago

Sorry - I meant Transformer. The big metal brick in the bottom of the pin. I am looking at the JD schematic and it seems to indicate 12v and 5v to that connector from the power driver board connector J114, so I am waiting on a call back from Rottendog to confirm their initial findings. Will continue to update as I learn more.

Thanks!

#18 2 years ago

I know you said f116 was blowing sometimes on your old power board but did you ever try to go back to your original power driver Board and see what happens? Like if you flippers return to normal.

#19 2 years ago

Ok, I had some confusion about which connectors supply 50v and 12v power and where those connectors are being fed from. After tracing connections using the manual and properly understanding which connectors fed what power to what boards, it seems the actual issue was due to the J104\J105 connector\plug having some connectivity issues and therefore not enough power was coming from it to the fliptronics board. After cleaning that plug it was able to feed the necessary voltages to the fliptronics board and the flippers came back up to full power. A very weird issue to figure out.

I am leaving the machine on now to see if the J116 fuse blows again (before it would not go but a few hours before blowing).

I am still not able to test solenoids via the Test menu. No matter what solenoid test I choose, only the Deadworld motor activates and does a herky jerky spin. I saw this when I had a cable connected to J136 (I think) on the power driver board which wasn't supposed to be there but now I am at a loss as to the cause. Any ideas?

Just FYI - I bought this pin after being routed and who knows what other history it has. I have found 2 connectors (purely by chance) that were plugged up incorrectly and causing very random issues. I plan to go back through the manual schematics and verify plugs are where they should be.

Please let me know if you have any questions about anything. Thanks for your consideration.

#20 2 years ago

Any mods currently disconnected?

#21 2 years ago

No, all mods are connected, subwoofer has been turned up, and I even reconnected an LED strip that has been disconnected for months (well before I changed the power driver board yesterday but after the fuse starting popping, which continued to do so even after I unplugged it). I am leaving the pin on to see if F116 still blows or not.

#22 2 years ago

What is the current voltage at TP1 ?

#23 2 years ago

Voltage at TP1 is 13.2v, however I can't play cause my kids are in bed. I don't doubt there are still some issues so I am open to suggestions on how to continue to dial it in.

Thanks!

#24 2 years ago
Quoted from nipper2u:

Voltage at TP1 is 13.2v, however I can't play cause my kids are in bed. I don't doubt there are still some issues so I am open to suggestions on how to continue to dial it in.
Thanks!

13.2v is good. To be sure you should recheck it when motors are running as they will pull addtiional current when they are active.

If F116 is going to blow, it will be when all motors in the game are active. The Globe Arm and Globe Motor are both powered from J118 (which is unregulated 12V).

1 week later
#25 2 years ago

Just to update this thread - I realized that I needed to close the safety switches inside the coin door to get the solenoids and such to test properly (<embarrassed>.

I didn't blow a fuse again until I added Pin Stadiums lights - which wasn't surprising. So Scott at Pin Stadium sent me an external power supply for the Pin Stadium lights and I haven't blown a fuse since. I love the ColorDMD and Pin Stadiums and can't imagine playing without them. Both also had excellent support and I highly recommend them.

Thank you all for your input along the way!

5 months later
#26 2 years ago
Quoted from nipper2u:

Just to update this thread - I realized that I needed to close the safety switches inside the coin door to get the solenoids and such to test properly

Your update is greatly appreciated. Often times these tech problem threads end with a repair suggestion but not the found solution! Glad you got it figured out and thank you for helping others with the solution!

3 months later
#27 2 years ago
Quoted from nipper2u:

it seems the actual issue was due to the J104\J105 connector\plug having some connectivity issues and therefore not enough power was coming from it to the fliptronics board.

Yeah I have a few games that I swapped to a rottendog as well (till I had time to rebuild the originals). The power on the flippers seemed to suffer slightly.

it'd make sense that the connectors were probably just fused with the old board's headers. and when trying to make the new connection to the new board it didn't fit in the same dirty "fused" notch, so the connection wasn't as solid. I've had this scenario take place in a few other issues I've had in the past. Seems to be pretty common place on routed machines.

I was thinking maybe it was something hinky with the rottendog board.... glad to know it probably isn't.

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