Weak flash on red 300 odds

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By BlackCatBone

2 months ago


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  • Started 2 months ago
  • 19 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 months ago by bingopodcast

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Key West resistors for magic squares (resized).jpg
DSC06873 (resized).jpg
ScreenHunter_11 Feb. 03 14.06 (resized).jpg
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Toasted coil in Key West - Mixer relay #4? (resized).jpg


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#1 85 days ago

I noticed that the red 300 odds on my Key West flash weakly during the mixer cycle. By weakly, I mean the bulb lights to a yellowish half-strength, then it slowly fades out. All other odds and advantages flash with full intensity. If I am awared the red 300 odds, the bulb shines at full strength and without any of the flicker you sometimes see in bulbs. So it is just the flash of red 300 that is the problem.

I've cleaned the red score disk and the spotting disk. I've replaced the bulb socket with a socket I salvaged from a parts game. The replacement socket displays identical behavior.

Does anyone know what might cause this or what would be a good avenue of investigation?

Thanks.

#2 84 days ago

Your spotting disc handles flash during coin cycles. If it is only that one and the socket is good, you either have a short with another rivet on the spotting disc or a cold solder joint or other problem on the flash rivet for 300 odds in red.

It should be documented in the manual - one wiper will handle flashes, and then you have to match up the wire color with the lamp for 300 odds (which will be shown on the schematic).

From there, you'll have to pull the spotting disc (most likely) to see what's going on.

#3 84 days ago

I say Scoth-Brite the spotting disc and it's wipers clean and shiny and see how it does first - no joy, then dig into the other things.

#4 83 days ago

Thanks, guys. I will dig into the spotting disc.

#5 81 days ago

I have the schematic and own Key West .
I see the lamp for Red 64 at location L12, but I don't see the lamps for 144 or 300 in Red.
Where are they on the schematic ?
Did they leave off the lamps for Green and Yellow too ?
I thought the entire group of lamps (color) were wired together, but they are not.

#6 81 days ago

@JKnPA Schematic shows the lowest odds in that section - so for example, the 64 is 64/144/300. All are lit by a single lamp in each color.

L12 shows the Red version of that - wire 38-6 comes off of the spotting disc and the red score disc to light it. If you look in the manual, you will see that pos 0 is hit with wiper E and F. Twice per full revolution will that 64/144/300 red lamp light.

Because the spotting rivet and score disc are electrically tied together, this prevents the flashing if the odds are already at that level - because the lamp is already lit.

#7 81 days ago

I guess i'm still missing something !
The lamps at Red 64,144, and 300 are Flashed separately when you are trying for better odds.
What is the wire# for the Red 300 lamp, and where does it go ?
That is the problem he is having.
* You probably explained it...... but I still don't follow.........

#8 81 days ago

Hey, no problem - what I'm saying is that there is one lamp for that set of odds. There are not three separate lamps for 64/144/300 - only one bulb behind the glass.

My explanation is of how that bulb can flash or turn on.

#9 81 days ago
Quoted from bingopodcast:

Hey, no problem - what I'm saying is that there is one lamp for that set of odds. There are not three separate lamps for 64/144/300 - only one bulb behind the glass.
My explanation is of how that bulb can flash or turn on.

..........................................................................................
OOOh....... I thought there were three lamps for 64/144/300..........one lamp for each.
When he said the Red 300 lamp, I assumed there were three separate lamps.
Ok..... makes sense to me now......
Thanks for the explanation.
John

#10 81 days ago
Quoted from JKnPA:

I have the schematic and own Key West .

Hey JK, can you do me a favor? Can you tell me the lettering on the paper wrapper on a coil just below the search relays on the rear door of your Key West? The photo shows the coil I am referring to - it is marked in red.

My coil has its paper wrapper burned off and it is the worst looking coil I've seen that still works. I used a meter to measure the resistance across the lugs, and I got something around 18 ohms, which can't be right. I'd guess that the coil is 50 ohm or 90 ohm, and I'm hoping you can tell me which.

Thanks.

Toasted coil in Key West - Mixer relay #4? (resized).jpg

#11 80 days ago

I just have a coil there with no contacts...... see pictures.
The markings read 184-139.

IMG_2624 (resized).JPG

IMG_2625 (resized).JPG

#12 80 days ago

OK, now I'm intrigued. That coil is used as a resistor in the pics above. The other one appears to have been modified or is from later in the run when they just added a switch to cut power. Looking into it...

#13 80 days ago

Looking at the schematic, I see that there should be a resistor on each of the square index coils. IIRC, my Nightclub has this - all are wired together to a common (50V supply). Again, IIRC, the resistors on NC are on the back of the white board that folds down. Does Key West have those? They are visible without moving anything out of the way, typically... somewhat near the start, replay reset, etc. relays when the game is together.

#14 80 days ago

Getting back to the original problem.......... is the problem with this rivet on the 'Spotting disc' ?

ScreenHunter_11 Feb. 03 14.06 (resized).jpg

#15 80 days ago
Quoted from JKnPA:

Getting back to the original problem.......... is the problem with this rivet on the 'Spotting disc' ?

Yep.

#16 80 days ago
Quoted from JKnPA:

I just have a coil there with no contacts...... see pictures.
The markings read 184-139.

Thanks for the photos and information. That is a curious difference between your game and mine. The wires from my coil disappear into a bundle, with no evidence of splices or any modification from factory original. My Key West serial number is G5361 or G5356 depending on whether you believe the body or the head.

#17 80 days ago
Quoted from bingopodcast:

Looking at the schematic, I see that there should be a resistor on each of the square index coils. IIRC, my Nightclub has this - all are wired together to a common (50V supply). Again, IIRC, the resistors on NC are on the back of the white board that folds down. Does Key West have those? They are visible without moving anything out of the way, typically... somewhat near the start, replay reset, etc. relays when the game is together.

Yes, there are 4 resistors on my Key West - see the photos. Do you have any idea what the coil mounted on top of the relay bank does? The one labeled "257." It has two wires at the bottom right that run to the start relay. It has one wire at the top that runs to the 4 transistors. It has a tiny SPDT switch with one of the switch blades bent up, and, for good measure, the red wire coming out of the top has been cut. You can see this if you look closely at the photos. All features in my Key West seem to be working properly, so I'm curious what this coil does or once did.

DSC06873 (resized).jpg

Key West resistors for magic squares (resized).jpg

#18 80 days ago

Eiko......

How I wish to never hear that name again...

I started troubleshooting my weak flash problem by substituting a known good bulb for the one that was giving me the weak flash. I took the known good bulb from a light that is continuously illuminated, one behind one of the female characters. The good bulb was an Eiko #55. It turns out that the Eiko #55 bulbs I have work fine when continuously powered, but have a sickly flash when just given a touch of current. I suppose they are poorly manufactured. I pulled a vintage #55 bulb out of a parts game and found that the flash was full strength. Lesson learned.

#19 80 days ago

That coil isn't factory (I don't think). I've never seen one, anyway. No idea what it's doing... Hooked to the start relay... Perhaps it was added to help power the squares on... Start? No idea, I'm sorry.

Part of the fun of fixing a game is trying to reverse any modifications and figuring out what they were intended to do. Normally, the modifications I find are related to preventing the grant of certain features. On screen games, 2 in the blue will often be disabled or extra portioning added.

To the bulb, wow. Yes, the Eiko bulbs are not very well made in comparison with older lamps, but I didn't realize they were that bad! Thanks for letting us know!

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