(Topic ID: 266247)

Weak DMD: Is it fixable?

By uphamj

1 year ago


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  • 42 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by Clizifer
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DE Batman DMD (resized).png
20200411_165535 (resized).jpg

#1 1 year ago

I have been working on a TMNT and have it playing again, the bigest issue I have is the DMD seems weak so does not display properly. Is this fixable or do I just wait it out until I am able to fork over the cash for a LED DMD?
I have replaced the original Power board with a new rottendog since the 68 volts was out on the original.

20200411_165535 (resized).jpg
#2 1 year ago

If your voltages are good, unfortunately the display is just end of life. Time to replace it with an LED DMD ideally.

#3 1 year ago

That was my thoughts but figured I would ask and see if anyone has any magic fixes.

#4 1 year ago

i'm having this same issue with a data east batman machine. after being turned on for a few hours it starts to get better and is almost 100%. could mine be a different issue or is my display dead as well?

#5 1 year ago
Quoted from Clizifer:

i'm having this same issue with a data east batman machine. after being turned on for a few hours it starts to get better and is almost 100%. could mine be a different issue or is my display dead as well?

Mine is the same way, if I leave it on for awhile it gets a little better, may have to do with temperature as well.

Even though I put in a new power board I am going to double check the voltages at the DMD and see what they are.

#6 1 year ago

i will check my voltages right now and see what ive got

#7 1 year ago

There are a couple of resistors to check on the DMD that can be related to that issue. I'll have to find that in the morning.

#8 1 year ago

all are good except the 68v is reading 107v and the 100v is reading 112v

#9 1 year ago
Quoted from Clizifer:

all are good except the 68v is reading 107v and the 100v is reading 112v

The DMD uses -120v, -108v and 68v. Are you measuring this on the power supply? Seems you're missing the 68v measurement.

#10 1 year ago

Can you measure the resistance (power off) of R95 and R104 on the back of the DMD, just below the J2 connector. These are 33.k 1/2 watt resistors. They should measure within 5% of that, even when still installed on the DMD.

#11 1 year ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Can you measure the resistance (power off) of R95 and R104 on the back of the DMD, just below the J2 connector. These are 33.k 1/2 watt resistors. They should measure within 5% of that, even when still installed on the DMD.

I checked my voltages and all are where they should be. I did Ohm out the resistors and they came out to 32.7 and 32.8 K ohms.

So when the display gets bad enough and have some extra funds may just have to bite the bullet and buy a new LED DMD.

#12 1 year ago
Quoted from uphamj:

I checked my voltages and all are where they should be. I did Ohm out the resistors and they came out to 32.7 and 32.8 K ohms.

Those seem close enough. Occasionally a good used DMD comes up for sale on Ebay or Pinside.

Would you mind posting the voltages you are getting with your new power supply?

#13 1 year ago

Sure no problem:
This is off the power board connector with the DMD plugged in:
+5 = 5.04
+12 = 12.25
+68 = 69.8
-110 = -113
-100 = -99.3

#14 1 year ago
Quoted from uphamj:

I checked my voltages and all are where they should be. I did Ohm out the resistors and they came out to 32.7 and 32.8 K ohms.
So when the display gets bad enough and have some extra funds may just have to bite the bullet and buy a new LED DMD.

I put color DMDs in most of my machines.
I’ve got 3 used orange monochrome DMDs sitting in boxes in my garage from where I swapped them out with color DMDs.
They are used, but nothing is wrong with them.
Send me a PM with your address and I’ll mail you one.
Happy Easter
Cheers
Kent

#15 1 year ago
Quoted from Coindork:

I put color DMDs in most of my machines.
I’ve got 3 used orange monochrome DMDs sitting in boxes in my garage from where I swapped them out with color DMDs.
They are used, but nothing is wrong with them.
Send me a PM with your address and I’ll mail you one.
Happy Easter
Cheers
Kent

He is using a Data East 128x16. ColorDMD doesn't support those, I'm assuming you are talking about the standard 128x32 size.

#16 1 year ago
Quoted from Clizifer:

all are good except the 68v is reading 107v and the 100v is reading 112v

Based on uphamj measurements, your -107 and -112 are not quite right. There should be 12 volt separation. Also, can you double check that are you measuring all 3 voltages?

#17 1 year ago
Quoted from Crash:

He is using a Data East 128x16. ColorDMD doesn't support those, I'm assuming you are talking about the standard 128x32 size.

I think the three I currently have are out of a SEGA Jurassic Park Lost Worlds, Steen Pirates and and AC/DC LUCI where I swapped them out with color DMDs.

#18 1 year ago
Quoted from Crash:

He is using a Data East 128x16. ColorDMD doesn't support those, I'm assuming you are talking about the standard 128x32 size.

Yep, you are correct.
I didn’t look all that close at the photo he posted and since I don’t have that machine didn’t realize it was a slimmer DMD.

#19 1 year ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Can you measure the resistance (power off) of R95 and R104 on the back of the DMD, just below the J2 connector. These are 33.k 1/2 watt resistors. They should measure within 5% of that, even when still installed on the DMD.

i found these but am unable to measure the resistance of them my meter doesnt seem to want to read ohms of any resistors

Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Based on uphamj measurements, your -107 and -112 are not quite right. There should be 12 volt separation. Also, can you double check that are you measuring all 3 voltages?

i checked all the voltages again. seems like a couple are too high
+5 - +5
+12 - +11.9
+68 - +103.4
-98 - -97.6
-100 - -109.7

#20 1 year ago
Quoted from Clizifer:

i found these but am unable to measure the resistance of them my meter doesnt seem to want to read ohms of any resistors

i checked all the voltages again. seems like a couple are too high
+5 - +5
+12 - +11.9
+68 - +103.4
-98 - -97.6
-100 - -109.7

Your High Voltage section needs repair.

Can you post a picture of your meter or post the make and model number?

#21 1 year ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Your High Voltage section needs repair.
Can you post a picture of your meter or post the make and model number?

i broke out my better meter and was able to read them. one is 32.8k and the other is 33.3k

how can i fix my high voltage section?

#22 1 year ago
Quoted from Clizifer:

i broke out my better meter and was able to read them. one is 32.8k and the other is 33.3k
how can i fix my high voltage section?

Those resistors look good.

Problem with the way Pinwiki is written for the 128x16 power supply, it talks about the differences between it and the other 128x32 DMD power supplies so that makes it a bit confusing. TR1 to TR4 are different between the power supplies, so it is best to refer to the manual for those parts. The charts in that section cover other parts that should be replaced as well.

https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Data_East/Sega#PS_520-5047-01_-_High_Voltage_Missing_at_the_DMD_display

On top of the High voltage section, the electolytic capacitors are likely on the way out very soon, which leak and then you have other issues mentioned in Pinwiki, such as C2 mentioned in 4.5.4.

So in conclusion, rebuild the high voltage section and replace the electrolytic capacitor, which the larger ones are very difficult to remove.

You could send the board to ChrisHibler to rebuild, or just by a new power supply, which I suggest an Xpin over a Rottendog.

#23 1 year ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Those resistors look good.
Problem with the way Pinwiki is written for the 128x16 power supply, it talks about the differences between it and the other 128x32 DMD power supplies so that makes it a bit confusing. TR1 to TR4 are different between the power supplies, so it is best to refer to the manual for those parts. The charts in that section cover other parts that should be replaced as well.
https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Data_East/Sega#PS_520-5047-01_-_High_Voltage_Missing_at_the_DMD_display
On top of the High voltage section, the electolytic capacitors are likely on the way out very soon, which leak and then you have other issues mentioned in Pinwiki, such as C2 mentioned in 4.5.4.
So in conclusion, rebuild the high voltage section and replace the electrolytic capacitor, which the larger ones are very difficult to remove.
You could send the board to chrishibler to rebuild, or just by a new power supply, which I suggest an Xpin over a Rottendog.

so are you suggesting that the issue with my display is to do with my power supply? would i be better off buying a new power supply versus a new display?

#24 1 year ago

i ordered myself a new power supply from xpin. hopefully that will do the trick. i will post back with the results. thanks for the help

#25 1 year ago
Quoted from Clizifer:

so are you suggesting that the issue with my display is to do with my power supply? would i be better off buying a new power supply versus a new display?

Sorry, I lost track of this thread. The voltage issues are due to the power supply. Now, I can't say you don't have a 2nd issue with the DMD without the correct voltages coming from the power supply.

Good to see you went with an Xpin board.

#26 1 year ago
Quoted from Clizifer:

i checked all the voltages again. seems like a couple are too high
+5 - +5
+12 - +11.9
+68 - +103.4
-98 - -97.6
-100 - -109.7

Yep. The 68V side was honked up here.
My guess is that the XPin replacement will get you back in business.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#27 1 year ago

awesome. i cant wait to try it out. should be here this week sometime i hope. i will let you all know how it goes. thanks again for the help

1 week later
#28 1 year ago

ok so i finally got my new xpin power supply today. i just installed it and plugged it all in and now im getting no display at all. ive checked all the voltages and fuses and everything is all good. curious what my issue could be at this point? am i going to need a new display? would i have been better off buying a new display than a new power supply??

#29 1 year ago
Quoted from Clizifer:

ok so i finally got my new xpin power supply today. i just installed it and plugged it all in and now im getting no display at all. ive checked all the voltages and fuses and everything is all good. curious what my issue could be at this point? am i going to need a new display? would i have been better off buying a new display than a new power supply??

No chance that you have the display ribbon cable plugged 180 degrees on one end? There are 2 fuses mounted to the back of the backbox, test those 2 fuses as well.

If the ribbon cable is plugged in correctly, can you wiggle the ribbon part of the cable on each end to see if you have a flaky cable?

#30 1 year ago

the 2 fuses on the back box are both still good. i never touched the ribbon cable or the display itself at all, all i did was swap out the power supply and now i have no display at all. before it was doing the plasmy thing. any other ideas?

#31 1 year ago

Can you post all the voltages?

#32 1 year ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Can you post all the voltages?

+5 - +5.19
+12 - +11.85
+68 - +68.7
-98 - -97.3
-100 - -115.4

these were all measured at the connector for the display itself. pluggin the old power supply back in brings me back to square one. working display but its a bit messed up

#33 1 year ago

Should I just buy a new dmd display? Sucks seeing how I already spent $150 on the power supply now another $300 on a display

#34 1 year ago

That is what I was afraid of. The 62v rail on the other power supply was over 90v. I think that damaged the IC.

I had replaced one in the past, but that is something I have to do at work in a different department than i work in. Could not say when i could do it. Have very limited free time.

#35 1 year ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

That is what I was afraid of. The 62v rail on the other power supply was over 90v. I think that damaged the IC.
I had replaced one in the past, but that is something I have to do at work in a different department than i work in. Could not say when i could do it. Have very limited free time.

so your saying the display itself is repairable? im guessing i could just buy the new display and fix the old one down the road if i wanted to. what would you do at this point?

#36 1 year ago
Quoted from Clizifer:

so your saying the display itself is repairable? im guessing i could just buy the new display and fix the old one down the road if i wanted to. what would you do at this point?

Well, one way or another the power supply had a problem. I suspect if you had sent it out for that voltage issue, the capacitors would also had been changed at the same time. Pretty sure that would easily been a $100 repair cost. So having a replacement Xpin is a good 2nd choice, and what I would have done because of 2 different issues. It is pretty time consuming changing all the parts needed to get that power supply working. Good thing now is, you could just sell that original board and get some kind of money back from it. Just not sure what it is worth.

To me it seems repairable, as I had repaired one in the past for this reason. That TMNT had a Rottendog and had failed for 62v, so I had to repair the power supply and the DMD. Seems the same case here, even though you have an original power supply in it at the time.

That will depend on what you want to do. I know there are a few options.
-Send your DMD in for repair. Need to check around to see who actually will work on it before just sending it somewhere.
-Place a wanted to by ad for a used working one. I seen working ones for about $150
-The LED display you know about already
-There is actual 128x16 color display out, but I don't know how user friendly that is nor the cost.
-Wait for ColorDMD to come out. Unsure when this could be.

If you end up buying a DMD, of what ever type, you could even sell the old DMD.

#37 1 year ago

So here you can see on the DMD schematic that the 62v goes to U13 and U14. This requires a hot air desolder station to remove and with a good technique because these are 4 sided surface mounted parts. The traces and pads to the pins are pretty easy to damage. DE Batman DMD (resized).png

#38 1 year ago

ok, thank you for all of your input. im thinking at this point i will just buy the new dmd and if i have some time i will have a look at the old one. thank you again for all of your help.

#39 1 year ago

Doesn't hurt to see if you can find someone that has one of these type games to verify it. I can't see it not being a DMD at this point. Wish it only would have been the power supply.

#40 1 year ago

uphamj back to yours. I think someone may have mentioned yours likely is outgassing. I am agreeing with this. I personally would hold out long as possible if it doesn't bother you that much. I have seen the 128x32 outgassing DMD last 3 years without any change in a home setting. The remaining life of the DMD may be determine how long you leave your game one each day.

#41 1 year ago

Yeah I am holding out, and of course for mine anyway it seems to be better with the warmer weather so for the most part it is fine and does not bother me too much.

#42 1 year ago
Quoted from uphamj:

Yeah I am holding out, and of course for mine anyway it seems to be better with the warmer weather so for the most part it is fine and does not bother me too much.

mine has seem to be better with the warmer weather as well. almost as if it doesnt need replacement lol. too bad i already ordered one, oh well

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