(Topic ID: 68330)

WE will not give STERN anymore of our money until codes are finished!!


By Rcade

6 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 319 posts
  • 130 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by Pinballwizard79
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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Topic poll

“Will you ever buy another NIB Stern?”

  • Nope. They've lost my business for good with their poor code update structure and PR 55 votes
    15%
  • Not until they fix current codes that are clearly unfinished and continue to release games with more complete code 256 votes
    68%
  • Yes. Ive never had a problem with the current system. Play pinball!! 66 votes
    18%

(377 votes by 0 Pinsiders)

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There are 319 posts in this topic. You are on page 6 of 7.
#251 6 years ago
Quoted from fattrain:

Me = Agree 1000%

I'm in the exact same boat

Me... +5

My $$$ has now gone to JJP (TH), Jpop (ZA) and PPA (MMr). I do enjoy my Stern games (7 of 30), however, they'll not see another dime from me, until they change their half baked, push them out the door, and hopefully nobody cares games any longer. I dropped my STLE like a hot potato, no regrets.

Stern step up, update the desperately needed code updates and take care of your 1,000's of past customers.

Thank You!
Kerry Richard

#252 6 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

The right theme + Lyman will make me break my rule lol
I've been playing Metallica A LOT over the past few weeks and am just loving the hell out of it...so, absolutely no regrets. ST is a neutral theme to me and I have STTNG already, so I don't mind sitting it out. The rumored upcoming themes don't really do anything for me either....so 2014 is a total "wait and see" year for me with NIB unless someone just blows me away out the gate.

I'm with you all the way because I also broke the promise for the right theme and designer.

And that was my point. Don't make promises we can't keep.

#253 6 years ago

I think some of the comments in this thread are a bit harsh. Xmen, as it stands today, is a great game with great code. Sure it could use a little polish, but its code is as good as most B/W games with a lot more to do. The code in that game is no longer holding it back. Yes it was a hard road, and yes it would be great to see it polish up. But there are much worse games to complain about. I think most are soured up on xmen due to the early code drops and how bad they were. Really, all its missing is some polish on a wizard mode most will never see and a speculated but never promised dead pool option that's been in the menus - where the menus themselves could have been the issue.

TAV is fine as is even if its never updated. Same with every game out there except WoF and Metallica. Star Trek even seems quite decent now with its current code and we know they're not done there.

This thread is pretty nuts. It started out ok with good intent. But when you have complainers about acdc code, which is freaking awesome. And people citing how fantastic woz code is, with its ridiculously incomplete code, its clear that most are just hating to hate.

#254 6 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Might just be Jpop....you never know

Jpop's projects are irrelevant. I don't think they'll ever get done...but, if they do - he clearly isn't making a business plan that is inclusive of people who want to see what they're buying...it's only for people who want to pay $10k+ 5 years in advance. So I'll humor you and assume his games will be built...if I like one of them, then what? I can't buy one...lol. So at the end of the day if he makes a game or doesn't, it's the same thing to me. Whatevs, I've got my ToM and CV.

Quoted from markmon:

TAV is fine as is even if its never updated.

Stop saying that. Wizard mode doesn't have any dots. That's not fine. Also there's a bug with Thor's backpanel flasher...that should be an easy fix.

#255 6 years ago
Quoted from pinmods:

The days of ignoring the customer are coming to an end. You either change or you die.

Sorry, but odds on that are long. If Stern turns out a good pin with a compelling theme, people are gonna buy it.

It's mind over matter. Gary doesn't mind because our rants about this don't matter.

#256 6 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

This thread is pretty nuts. It started out ok with good intent. But when you have complainers about acdc code, which is freaking awesome. And people citing how fantastic woz code is, with its ridiculously incomplete code, its clear that most are just hating to hate.

This is a good point, Markmon.

I really hope that my initial intent for starting this thread isn't lost. I wasn't trying to facilitate an arena to just spew negativity. I just wanted to voice my concerns as a frustrated customer in hopes that MAYBE someone at Stern MIGHT take these concerns into consideration in future projects, because I know that the issue if "incomplete" code, slow code updates and poor communication seem to always pop up on this forum.

But I guess I should expect it, when people vent (including myself) we can sometimes veer off into negativity for negativity's sake.

I've stated a few times throughout this thread that I love Stern games, I'm not trying to "bury" Stern or anything like that, just trying to quantify that their current business culture of poor communication and coding habits might be costing them a little money in the future.

And you're right, Xmen is awesome as is, I think, I'm a huge champion of that game, as my forum activity will trumpet. But it still saddens me that XM could be an absolute top tier game if they took the time to clean some stuff up and add a few things to finish it out and bring it all together. Just frustrating is all, I would hope that you and other hobbyists could see that.

#257 6 years ago

Stern's designs/layouts of many of the recent releases have been flat out excellent IMO. I don't think Stern has done the right thing by not supporting some of these great designs with adequate (almost complete) code in a reasonable amount of time. So I definitely relate to some of the sentiments being expressed here. However, I'm hopeful Stern will change with the times and dedicate the time and money necessary to back their product with great code on both new and old releases. Seriously we are pinball addicts Mr. Stern just begging you to give us a great pin to spend our money on don't give us a huge reason not to buy.

-1
#258 6 years ago
Quoted from The_Dude_Abides:

Seriously we are pinball addicts Mr. Stern just begging you to give us a great pin to spend our money on don't give us a huge reason not to buy.

Exactly, but there will always be pinheads complaining about rules, code, etc. Look at the MMR. A unquestionably amazing pin that was so popular that it's price rose to absolute stratospheric levels. They issue a remake for the current market price of an LE and you hear 60 seconds of rejoicing and weeks of bitching about the price. If you can't turn out an MM at market price without people tossing a fit, why listen to a bunch of griping addicts when your pins are still selling? This "we won't buy" thing is a hollow threat Dude... All I'm saying.

My friends didn't die face down in the muck for pins with incomplete code, Dude!

#259 6 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

So at the end of the day if he makes a game or doesn't, it's the same thing to me. Whatevs, I've got my ToM and CV.

But you could sell those two to get a 100% all Jpop creation, and have some cash leftover, just sayin IF of course he actually gets these projects done and out the door as you doubt will happen

#260 6 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

But you could sell those two to get a 100% all Jpop creation, and have some cash leftover, just sayin IF of course he actually gets these projects done and out the door as you doubt will happen

Magic Girl has become Magic Woman...

#261 6 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

But you could sell those two to get a 100% all Jpop creation, and have some cash leftover, just sayin IF of course he actually gets these projects done and out the door as you doubt will happen

That would mean someone who waited all this time saw the final game, and said "welp, I'm out, here, want to buy this off me for cost Greg?"

#262 6 years ago
Quoted from gearheaddropping:

Magic Girl has become Magic Woman...

Soon to be .... Wonder Woman

#263 6 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

But you could sell those two to get a 100% all Jpop creation, and have some cash leftover, just sayin IF of course he actually gets these projects done and out the door as you doubt will happen

Why would I sell games I have and enjoy now & give up money for something that doesn't exist and after years only has theories and sketches to show? The guy hasn't finished 1 game, has the balls to take money for #2 and a dropped a 3rd ball to contemplate #3.

How do we know if a 100% Jpop creation would be as good as a B/W Jpop game?

Ever play a Zizzle?

#264 6 years ago
Quoted from gearheaddropping:

Magic Girl has become Magic Woman...

Possibly about to become Magic Senior Citizen.

image-124.jpg

rd

#265 6 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Why would I sell games I have and enjoy now & give up money for something that doesn't exist and after years only has theories and sketches to show? The guy hasn't finished 1 game, has the balls to take money for #2 and a dropped a 3rd ball to contemplate #3.

How do we know if a 100% Jpop creation would be as good as a B/W Jpop game?

^^^^^^^^^Because he says so!

And there is a whole lot more than "theories and sketches", you will see soon enough

#266 6 years ago
Quoted from swf127:

This "we won't buy" thing is a hollow threat Dude... All I'm saying.

I actually don't think it is a hollow threat at all. I think they are already losing out on sales because of the lack of coding on their pins. With the added competition I think they could lose even more if they don't change. If people are actually buying from other manufacturers because of this it is an issue worth addressing IMO. I don't want Stern to fail at all. That's not what I want to see as I love many of their recent designs. What I would love to see is them listen to their past and present customers and improve on providing great code for their pins in a reasonable amount of time.

#267 6 years ago

You know what Spidey says..."With great competition, comes great innovation."
.....all right...I said it...

#268 6 years ago
Quoted from The_Dude_Abides:

If people are actually buying from other manufacturers because of this it is an issue worth addressing IMO. I don't want Stern to fail at all. That's not what I want to see as I love many of their recent designs. What I would love to see is them listen to their past and present customers and improve on providing great code for their pins in a reasonable amount of time.

That's what I'm talking about!

#269 6 years ago
Quoted from Rcade:

Danger mode exists and has in full capacity since a couple updates ago. Dark Pheonix animations were finished and implemented with the most recent update, but the rules therein are the "Lonnie Special" currently. The last Wizard mode in XM is all text at the moment though.
Deadpool mode, although not on the card, has been an option in the adjustments menu since day one, and still doesn't exist, heck, there's only ONE sound call out that is possibly Deadpool in the game code current.y, but nothing other than that.

Wolverine's mode is on the card but not in the game...

#270 6 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

^^^^^^^^^Because he says so!
And there is a whole lot more than "theories and sketches", you will see soon enough

There isn't even a playable whitewood yet...you think 3 titles will be done/built by next year? LOL

#271 6 years ago
Quoted from metahugh:

Wolverine's mode is on the card but not in the game...

Not quite. It WAS correct when the card came out.

The release code, which the card was based on, had Wolvie mode separate from WXMB. But after the complete rules overhaul after the release code, the instruction card is no longer valid in some spots, because the entire rule layout has changed.

So while it is CURRENTLY inaccurate, it WAS correct when they made the card for the release code.

.....although it still doesn't excuse them from not making updated cards for the games manufactured after the release code overhaul.

#272 6 years ago
Quoted from smokedog:

It took 2 years for Tron to be complete. Not saying XMen will be complete then, but I wouldnt give up hope.
If I still owned XMen that is ...

Tron code was fine before it's last update. In fact, I actually downgraded (went back) to the prior code. I liked the prior code fine, it didn't suck at all like XM LE. I mean, to me to really finish Tron was great and helps me as I want all my games to be super great. But it also spits in the face of XM code because at the time XM code was crap and still is crap as far as I'm concerned. And Stern goes and makes an already great Tron code better.

I know these are two different teams and all. But just to say it took 2 years to finish Tron, I don't know, I think Tron was fairly good on the prior code and I still am playing that code. I want to wait and treat myself to the updated code some time in the future.

To me Tron code might have gone from a 9.1 to a 9.5 (or whatever grade you want). I am looking at XM as a 6.1 grade and I think it should be fixed or updated to a passing grade which is 8.0 or better.

The problem is, Tron wasn't nearly as messed up as XM. Like to complete Tron was like ass a bit of rules extra ball some DMD animation or whatever else they added. It already was very good.

XM was such a horrible mess, they almost need to tear it all down and start over if they want to be a great game. I think either they are not working on it at all, or it's so messed up it's almost beyond repair and that's why we are not getting any updates.

#273 6 years ago

Interesting. I remember on version 1.0 that shipped, there was a Wolverine mode, but the release had scoring errors so it was updated a few days later. Does anyone remember what the mode was like? Didn't you have to beat magneto in order to start collecting anything? I remember the first version of the rules was very linear but the first couple of games I was unable to beat Magneto to get anything going...

Quoted from Rcade:

Not quite. It WAS correct when the card came out.
The release code, which the card was based on, had Wolvie mode separate from WXMB. But after the complete rules overhaul after the release code, the instruction card is no longer valid in some spots, because the entire rule layout has changed.
So while it is CURRENTLY inaccurate, it WAS correct when they made the card for the release code.
.....although it still doesn't excuse them from not making updated cards for the games manufactured after the release code overhaul.

#274 6 years ago
Quoted from luvthatapex2:

Interesting. I remember on version 1.0 that shipped, there was a Wolverine mode, but the release had scoring errors so it was updated a few days later. Does anyone remember what the mode was like? Didn't you have to beat magneto in order to start collecting anything? I remember the first version of the rules was very linear but the first couple of games I was unable to beat Magneto to get anything going...

Correct. In The release code you had to bear Mags right off the bat to be Able to collect the heroes. It was pretty bad.

#275 6 years ago

This is all Stern need to post on their facebook page.........

'Metallica code update coming soon, will include band member modes, crank it up and end of line. Thanks for your patience.'

How difficult is that??!!!!

#276 6 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

^^^^^^^^^Because he says so!

Oh man, you did NOT just say that, did you?

Because he says so? Really? Shouldn't the pins be close to shipping by now, because he previously said that they would be?

Where's Magic Girl?

Here's a blast from the past for your perusal (please don't tell me to F off again, like you did in that thread...if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen)!

http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/za-release-month-prediction

Quoted from iceman44:

I'll say May/June of 2013.....MG gives them a good trial run!

#277 6 years ago
Quoted from luvthatapex2:

Does anyone remember what the mode was like?

About 9:45 in he starts the old Wolvie mode. Really nothing special, static background and all you did was constantly hit Wolvie x amount of times.....pretty boring.

This is 1.1 code, not 1.0, so by 1.1 they did away with the mandatory Mags MB .

I do really miss the original background music from the early code, pretty cool....

#278 6 years ago

Even secretive ass Apple has started publicly talking about what code changes they're going to be making:

http://arstechnica.com/apple/2013/11/updates-to-new-iwork-will-restore-some-old-features-final-cut-style/

-1
#279 6 years ago
Quoted from The_Dude_Abides:

I actually don't think it is a hollow threat at all. I think they are already losing out on sales because of the lack of coding on their pins. With the added competition I think they could lose even more if they don't change. If people are actually buying from other manufacturers because of this it is an issue worth addressing IMO. I don't want Stern to fail at all. That's not what I want to see as I love many of their recent designs. What I would love to see is them listen to their past and present customers and improve on providing great code for their pins in a reasonable amount of time.

I'd like to see that as well and I bear them no ill will either. I think their goal isn't necessarily to saturate the market but really to maximize their profit. I guess the real question is how many sales do they think they're losing due to code quality. If they're used to making 3,000 per title and those are selling, where's the incentive to bring on two more software engineers? If a software engineer costs ~220K fully loaded, I'd assume that increased code quality would have to directly translate to a 200-300 additional pins sold per year just to break even. I don't know what the margin is but I'm assuming 30-35%.

So couldn't agree with you more but I'm looking for the catalyst that would cause them to respond and not seeing one until 2015-2016. I'm just waiting to shove a pin and have it yell "Careful man! There's a beverage here!"

#280 6 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

There isn't even a playable whitewood yet...you think 3 titles will be done/built by next year? LOL

Yes........there is.............and no, 3 titles will not be done/built by next year, didn't say that, but I know of 2 that will be done/built...............................

#281 6 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Oh man, you did NOT just say that, did you?

Because he says so? Really? Shouldn't the pins be close to shipping by now, because he previously said that they would be?

Where's Magic Girl?

Here's a blast from the past for your perusal (please don't tell me to F off again, like you did in that thread...if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen)!

Hehe....awful touchy aren't we, but hey, can't "disclose" anything, ain't no heat here brother, you backed out of the wrong pin! You can't rush genius and true artistry........

#282 6 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Even secretive ass Apple has started publicly talking about what code changes they're going to be making:
http://arstechnica.com/apple/2013/11/updates-to-new-iwork-will-restore-some-old-features-final-cut-style/

I am not a huge Apple fan in fact I dislike their overpriced PC hardware.
I much prefer a rooted Android over anything Apple as well but that's another topic.

Complaining about pinball machine code is parallel to bagging on operating systems. Microsquat as well as other devs have never released a "complete" version of any OS but most run apps and function to a certain extent.
Pinball game code is similar IMHO because it all basically works with some releases more complete than others and usually gets some form of an update down the line.

If you refuse to buy a pinball machine based on some level of code completion try applying that same logic to a PC or smartphone and you will be making calls using tin cans & string or surfing the net on your TRS-80.

#283 6 years ago
Quoted from gearheaddropping:

Magic Girl has become Magic Woman...

LMFAO.

Pretty soon it will be Magic MILF.

#284 6 years ago

What has JJP done to justify all the adolation? They still haven't managed to ship a full run of their first pin, the playfield GI is sorely lacking, and the software isn't finished. How is this better than Stern? WOZ is a gorgeous machine, to be sure, but the JJP apologists are spreading the manure a little thick.

#285 6 years ago
Quoted from Rcade:

About 9:45 in he starts the old Wolvie mode. Really nothing special, static background and all you did was constantly hit Wolvie x amount of times.....pretty boring.
This is 1.1 code, not 1.0, so by 1.1 they did away with the mandatory Mags MB .
I do really miss the original background music from the early code, pretty cool....
ยป YouTube video

Thanks I forget just how lame that game is...total sadness.

#286 6 years ago
Quoted from kvan99:

Thanks I forget just how lame that game WAS.

Fixed

#287 6 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Hehe....awful touchy aren't we, but hey, can't "disclose" anything, ain't no heat here brother, you backed out of the wrong pin! You can't rush genius and true artistry........

Cult cult cult cult cult cult cult.

Until I see an actual Magic Girl built, this whole Jpop thing is about on the same level as Scientology at this point. Money & secrets. Fleh.

#288 6 years ago
Quoted from cal50:

I am not a huge Apple fan in fact I dislike their overpriced PC hardware.
I much prefer a rooted Android over anything Apple as well but that's another topic.
Complaining about pinball machine code is parallel to bagging on operating systems. Microsquat as well as other devs have never released a "complete" version of any OS but most run apps and function to a certain extent.
Pinball game code is similar IMHO because it all basically works with some releases more complete than others and usually gets some form of an update down the line.
If you refuse to buy a pinball machine based on some level of code completion try applying that same logic to a PC or smartphone and you will be making calls using tin cans & string or surfing the net on your TRS-80.

There are complaints like "my IM does not do attract noises, the instant info is useless, and I would like an earnable extra ball"

Then there are complaints like "the game is borked, is almost catching fire, and does not add scores correctly" (see early X-men).

Then in the middle there is "you promised me a Cadillac, and delivered a buggy pulled by a donkey (to date)". Buggies can be fun, but you paid for a damn Cadillac (see Metallica).

So yeah, there is all sorts of justified code ranting, not just "nice to have" tweaks.

#289 6 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Cult cult cult cult cult cult cult.
Until I see an actual Magic Girl built, this whole Jpop thing is about on the same level as Scientology at this point. Money & secrets. Fleh.

I'd love to be able t drink the JPop cool-aid... if money was no object I would be drinking JPop like Pauly wheezes the juice:

#290 6 years ago
Quoted from BC_Gambit:

There are complaints like "my IM does not do attract noises, the instant info is useless, and I would like an earnable extra ball"
Then there are complaints like "the game is borked, is almost catching fire, and does not add scores correctly" (see early X-men).
Then in the middle there is "you promised me a Cadillac, and delivered a buggy pulled by a donkey (to date)". Buggies can be fun, but you paid for a damn Cadillac (see Metallica).
So yeah, there is all sorts of justified code ranting, not just "nice to have" tweaks.

Or : It works but can or should work better.

I agree for the amount of money paid there should be a high level of code performance provided, without waiting.
(I had a NIB WOF so tell me about incomplete coding.....inserts that do not light up)

Until sales drop due to direct code issues not much will likely change unless the respective companies take up the task themselves. I still think the number of people they boycott an actual purchase is small and overpricing games will affect sales more than code related issues.

Like the shiny car on the lot that looks nice until you spend some time driving it.
Once you figure it out they have your money and its not coming back.

-7
#291 6 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Stop saying that. Wizard mode doesn't have any dots. That's not fine. Also there's a bug with Thor's backpanel flasher...that should be an easy fix.

I don't care about dots in the display during wizard mode. I'd be too busy watching and hitting the balls to be looking for various animations on the off playfield Dmd. Sure it would be great to have some dots just like and LCD would be great with colors. But it really isn't critical. Neother that nor a buggy flasher grounds for public outrage at what is reasonably decent code in TAV otherwise.

Quoted from iceman44:

But you could sell those two to get a 100% all Jpop creation, and have some cash leftover, just sayin IF of course he actually gets these projects done and out the door as you doubt will happen

These games aren't 100% JPOP. He has a team working for him. He isn't writing all the code, drawing the art, etc.

#292 6 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

I don't care about dots in the display during wizard mode. I'd be too busy watching and hitting the balls to be looking for various animations on the off playfield Dmd.

What a bullshit justification for unfinished game. Why not just unplug all your DMDs then.

Quoted from markmon:

Sure it would be great to have some dots just like and LCD would be great with colors. But it really isn't critical. Neother that nor a buggy flasher grounds for public outrage at what is reasonably decent code in TAV otherwise.

I'm not talking about public outrage...I'm talking about doing the right thing. Just because YOU don't care doesn't mean it's right for a $6k+ NIB game to be missing animation for it's final mode. A flasher bug would probably take 2 seconds to fix and another 2 to upload as an update. Just because YOU are OK with unfinished code & bugs doesn't make it acceptable. We get it....finished games aren't important to you....you may have convinced yourself it's acceptable, but no one else is buying what you're selling.

#293 6 years ago
Quoted from rai:

XM was such a horrible mess, they almost need to tear it all down and start over if they want to be a great game. I think either they are not working on it at all, or it's so messed up it's almost beyond repair and that's why we are not getting any updates.

I'm with you there. I will say I think the most recent X-Men code is the best version there has been, but I will also say with the latest code, I believe they have gone beyond the point of making it as good as it should have been.

I was playing a game last night...Sentential mode, Weapon X multiball and combos....all fighting for insert space. What a mess. Just too many things on X-Men that are simple messed up. They would have been much better not adding the 3rd wizard mode and fixing what they already had in place and re-adding stuff they had stripped out.

As I have said before, I'm sure some people enjoy the game and that is fine. I just put way too much time into thinking what the game easily could have been....and it would have been much better than what we have now, if it would have went the direction I had envisioned.

#294 6 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

These games aren't 100% JPOP. He has a team working for him. He isn't writing all the code, drawing the art, etc.

Well obviously he isn't building, designing, coding, drawing it all himself, yes he does have a "team" that he controls and directs through his vision for the game.........there was a "team" at Bally that he was a part of, and it went very well there with his/team's projects......now he has no restraints or limitations in the creative process. We know all of this because of the weekly blog updates, pictures, stories, etc....anybody that is in or that has seen the progress at Jpop's shop knows, for now though, the naysayers can have some fun with it, that's ok! Already been down that Woz naysayer road

Didn't we go from JJ is a "fraud", he'll be bankrupt soon, he's in the bahamas with everybody's money, "Woz will never ship", blah, blah, blah........now we are down to "look, there is a chip ding in the cabinet right out of the box", "the GI lighting sucks"........oh how things have changed, while it was tumultuous for sure, I never doubted JJP would create a great pin, they did, and I have zero doubts or concerns that Jpop will exceed Woz in most aspects except code......

Getting to see the whole process evolve from our "cult leader" is worth the price of admission itself if you love pinball.........

#295 6 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Cult cult cult cult cult cult cult.
Until I see an actual Magic Girl built, this whole Jpop thing is about on the same level as Scientology at this point. Money & secrets. Fleh.

Not a cult. Business model. Don't like it? Don't buy.

Simple as that.

Your constant criticism of something you have no knowledge of takes away from generally thoughtful comments you make on other topics.

#296 6 years ago
Quoted from dmesserly:

Your constant criticism of something you have no knowledge of takes away from generally thoughtful comments you make on other topics.

While I do think Greg believes what he is saying, despite how wrong he is he is just having some fun with it....and me....and I innocently/naturally know how to get these guys riled up, did you see RobT jump out of his chair with my "because he said so" comment....hehehe Good fun........

I like to listen to all sides, including the negative ones, that way we can know and evaluate whether we should have some legitimate concerns or not.......when you know what the facts are and the others are just guessing it can be fun!

#297 6 years ago
Quoted from DugFreez:

....and it would have been much better than what we have now, if it would have went the direction I had envisioned.

Sorry to derail, but what direction did you envision?

#298 6 years ago

Why can't the distributors pressure Stern for code????

#299 6 years ago
Quoted from BowlingJim:

Why can't the distributors pressure Stern for code????

I imagine they will/should after the Star Trek Le debacle.........

#300 6 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I imagine they will/should after the Star Trek Le debacle.........

For 8.2K I gotta be honest, it coulda used a little more cowbell.

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