Wizard of Oz
Jersey Jack, 2013You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider pauloz.
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I am one of the unlucky bumper customers and I paid $11k for my WOZ which was never delivered. I have since bought one direct from JJP and can say that Jack was a great guy to deal with. He was sympathetic to our loss I believe he will make good on his promise to send the 22 machines that were paid for.
I do not agree with the OP in bringing this to a public forum and think that this course of action is detrimental to our cause rather than good.
Quoted from Playerone:Yep , great guy! He's only got about 3k of the 11k you paid Bumper still in his possession.
Look at this how you guys will. All the negotiations by WF with Jack went nowhere and ended in broken delivery dates over and a over again. WF have applauded taking public action. I'm not expecting delivery within 3 weeks, Just the promised photos and updates of the machines being built. One guy on here said he saw Australian marked WOZ's! Great! Then why doesn't Jack post the pictures like he said he would? Just more broken promises.
For a start, I didn't say he was a great guy, I said he was a great guy to deal with and in my case he was. You should really give him time, he said a few weeks? and you call him out again after 3 weeks and 1 day. I don't think whinging about the lack of a photo is really helping.
Quoted from Playerone:As much as that amuses me as well, this is no laughing matter. Our old mate Jacks done the Harold Holt with our folding stuff! How much can a koala bear. I bet all you fellas would be banging the drum just as loud if you got ripped off 9k. A portion off which is still in the hands of oil can Harry.
Give it a rest mate. Pissing Jack off is not going to help us get him to send the games to us.
Quoted from Whysnow:my understanding is that they plan to sell all of them on the open market so part of the angst is that the market for WOZ is possibly turning down?
That is correct but they will be offered to the 79 first.
Quoted from iceman44:Wow, I can imagine the cluster F that is going to turn into, I'm sure Bumper has gone into hiding...
Perhaps I should clarify my previous post.
They will be available to the 79 to purchase and if there are any left, they will be sold on the open market.
Quoted from iceman44:Please stfu! Ask him. Pull your panties off and quit whining
And pop a top down under and plow a few Fosters down!
He did ask nicely so not an unreasonable request.
As for Fosters, we use that to clean our drains.
Quoted from DanQverymuch:Foster's is bad?
But, but... Crocodile Dundee himself said "it's Australian for beer, mate!"
Crocodile Dundee was a COMEDY 
Quoted from John_I:OK I'm missing something again. Weren't these games $6500 when you bought them and $7500 now? Not sure what currency you are referencing, but the Australian dollar is within 6 cents of the American dollar so that doesn't really matter. Are WoZLE really selling for $10K down there - especially when you drop another 22 in the mix? You might want to figure on getting the current retail price at best.
Plus the nearly 2k to ship it and Aussie taxes.
Quoted from Playerone:4 weeks and 1 day ago Jack said he would be sending our machines in a "few" weeks. There's no way this was going to happen. What could and should have happened was the promised production photos. As many have stated in this thread, it only takes a few minutes to take a couple of photos and post them. As Jack said himself "no photos or it's not happening". So we can now safely say its NOT happening.
We can now safely say Jack Guarnieri is a LIAR.
Big problem for pinball now.
And if we don't get the machines, I will lay the blame squarely at your feet.
Quoted from Charliew65:Out of 79 people how did you get voted in as spokesperson? You have very little tact and you are very bitchy. If I was Jack, every time you say something stupid like "pics or it never happened" that would be another month I would wait to communicate with you so you shouldnt be hearing from him for years...
There was no vote and he is not the official spokesperson.
Quoted from spfxted:If I was Jack, I'd just tell you to go F$ck yourself. If you can't see you're doing more harm than good, you deserve what you get...just sayin'
Unfortunately he is ruining it for the rest of us as well. Totally selfish.
Quoted from Playerone:Nothing stopping you Paul from starting your own thread, raving about how happy you are about being lied too, having promise after promise broken, and loving the fact your're out of pocket several thousand dollars that Jack owes you, that he agreed to make right. Or you could stand firm. We've have been more than patient. It will be a year before you know it since Jack agreed to the WOZ group arrangement. Surely you don't believe in fairies in the back garden? This threads not going to stop him sending machines, he was never going to send them anyway.
Really.....why would I want or need to start a thread, Jack said he would make the games, so wait for him to make them. His timeframe is out but that's not a surprise to anyone why ordered a WOZ.
Your assumption that I am happy to be out of pocket is so far off the mark its laughable. I want to get as much of my cash back as I can and the only way that can happen is if Jack sends the 22 games and we can sell them all and perhaps get 30-40 cents in the dollar back.
You are putting that at risk. If you called me a liar and a thief, I would tell you to take a hike. Please stop and let Jack make good on his offer to send us the games.
Quoted from BobC:" if Jack sends the 22 games and we can sell them all and perhaps get 30-40 cents in the dollar back."
uh...wouldn't it be easier to just have the money sent back? LOL!
That was the option the group voted for as they thought it would bring the best return.
Quoted from Playerone:I've been banned from JJP pinball Facebook. After many emails and phone calls I got the shits and wrote this on his FB page. This is the honest truth and I'm not exaggerating a word
I commented about a year ago-
"I've lost thousand of dollars on a WOZ pinball machine in Australia, JJP are doing nothing to help".
His respond within 15 mins was to ban me from commenting and sending me a message saying-
" don't write shit like this on our Facebook page".
So that's where making comments on JJP Facebook gets you. Absolutely nowhere. He reads all of this stuff, he would be watching this thread like an eagle circling above. Hi Jack!!!!!!! How about the promised updates and photo old son???? Won't take long. Click, click, post. Happy days.
I don't blame him for banning you from his facebook page, it a marketing tool not a place to air grievances.
Like the fact or not, Jack is doing us a favour and if you keep this crap up, he may decide not to.
As I said before, I will blame you if we don't get the 22 machines.
Quoted from lowepg:Not sure I see how Jack is doing anyone a "favor" here?
HE received funds (a LONG time ago) for these machines (at least enough to build 22 machines)
HE agreed to build 22 machines
HE agreed HERE to ship them in "a few weeks"
HE agreed to provide photos in production to presumable avoid JUST this sort of problem
I thought jack made a classy reply here last month when he made these promises.... but now?
I'm shocked at the "pass" many folks here are willing to give JJP for their business practices. I guarantee the same rose-colored glasses would not be donned for Stern.
For those on the defensive, please explain how YOU describe a situation where someone promises something, then fails to deliver? Are you thinking of that word?
Now why is that considered fraud in 99.9999% of the world, but when referring to delivery of WoZ, somehow its something else? Why this narrow exemption of common integrity for JJP?
It's embarrassing that Jack ignored these guys when they tried the civil approach and only after him being called out here- did he engage.... And you wonder why some of those guys are angry and still calling him out?
Granted the OP has ruffled feathers with some of his posts, but don't let that deflect the facts. Dont forget the real story is ~80 fellow pinball enthusiasts got ripped off in this fiasco.... Best of luck to all you guys.
The thing is, he didn't have to do anything. He has Bumpers money, not ours, Bumper took that. That Bumper no longer exists.
Jack agreed to send us 22 machines which he didn't have to do so that in my book constitutes a favour and when someone is doing you a favour, calling him names is not the best course of action.
Quoted from gambit3113:1 . Didn't Jack make people to through Bumper after some point? I have never been clear on this, but it reads like once Bumper became the distro for JJP, you had to use them.
2. Did Jack receive the $$ for 22 games? If he has that cash, how is it a favor to deliver those games?
We all paid Bumper varying amounts from deposits to paid in full. Bumper put it in a trust account and when Jack asked for a payment Bumper sent deposits on 83 machines. Bumper them took the remaining money and is now liquidated and the money long gone.
Legally, Jack has Bumpers money, not ours, Bumper stole that.
Jack said he has enough money (that Bumper sent him) to make 22 games and would send them, which he didn't have to do.
Quoted from Playerone:Call it a favour, call it what ever you want. The fact is it's nothing if he hasn't done anything about it.
His "favour" was agreed to in November last year. His "favour" was supposed to be here in March.
Maybe if you stop calling this a favour and call it what it really is "LIES and more LIES" then he might just be shamed enough into action. You can sugarcoat things and call them. "Broken Promises" or you can call them what they are. LIES. "I'm posting photos" "machines will ship in a few weeks". LIES.
Give it a rest. This is not the way to get anyone to do anything or you will cost us all any chance of getting anything out of this mess. You are just making things worse. He said he would send the games, and someone on here has said they saw games addressed to Aussie. Be patient.
Quoted from gambit3113:Well, to be completely fair, Jack doesn't have a right to sit on that money, either. It is traceable. And as the distro that Jack hand picked for the area, he shares in some of that responsibility. Agency/distro issues and all.
But that doesn't answer the question about if Jack made customers to through bumper at any point.
Well who does he send the money to? The company who sent it to him is no longer in existence.
As for Jack making people go through Bumper, I am not sure that is totally correct, I know a few people who went direct to JJP. It was easier and cheaper at the time to go through Bumper so most did.
Quoted from hank527:I don't get that. Jack has money for 22 games. I'm sure it would ruin his reputation if he did nothing. I'm shocked that so many give Jack a pass. These guys are officially owed 22 games per JJP's post.
You guys coming and saying Jack doesn't have to ship these games are wrong. I think the fallout if Jack does not make this right would be huge, but several of you are not defending the victims.
So let's ask the most important question.
Put yourself in the position of being out several thousand dollars and then tell me it's okay and JJP doesn't have to send games and it's okay to treat people the way these guys are being treated.
Quite simply, I am in that position. I am one of the 79 who lost their money after paying for my WOZ in full. I am not defending Jack and I do want to get something out of this but just don't think calling Jack a thief and a liar is the way to go about it.
Quoted from Playerone:So again, seeings you so vehemently oppose this course of action. If it does indeed wield results, will you forfeit any revenues due too you? I only ask this as you have called me out saying you will "lay the blame squarely on me if Jack sends nothing" .
Don't be silly, I want to get as much as my money back as I can just as you surely do, we just have different ideas on how to go about it. I emailed Jack this morning, You should try the same approach. Going in all guns blazing wont have the effect you seem to think it will and I would not be surprised if we all end up losing out due to your actions here. Don't forget, its not just your money you are risking here.
Quoted from Playerone:Of course I would, because I have conviction in what I believe in and what I think is right. I think it is right for Jack to stop playing games, stop lying, and do what he said he was going to do 4 weeks ago on Pinside, and that is build these machines we are owed and post picture and updates of that happening.
None of that has happened, I can only think now that he's not building because he "can't".
This is scary not just for us but anyone who he owes anything too!
If we do get the machines, you will never convince me that you calling Jack a thief and a liar was the reason we got them.
Quoted from Playerone:And if we don't you will never convince me my actions caused that. This is on Jacks head no one else's.
And thanks to you we certainly have a better chance of not getting them.
Quoted from Whysnow:arn't you part of the original company that was the start of all this????
He was not part of the original Bumper that caused this mess, but he was part of Bumper no 2 who assured us all would be well whilst knowing full well that it was not and that the money was long gone.
I would not believe a word or what this liar has to say.
He has zero credibility and I am not quite sure why he is sticking his nose in.
Quoted from Noodlebox:I came in after all the games had been sold and the money already spent. I worked with what I was told. That was to be that the new business would take over the franchise and work with Jack to get the games, I have an email from Jack to another person saying that the Bumper changeover was a "just a formality", but since found Jack was already working behind the scenes to change distributor for someone who would pay more money up front - the change of Bumper ownership just gave him the chance to dump Bumper and pocket what he had been paid already. What Farrell/Bumper did was wrong, in both iterations of the company. Jack himself has dirty hands as he had no intention of allowing the transfer of the franchise despite letting Bumper tell peop,e it was going ahead, and that changeover is what exposed Bumper's earlier shenanigans. This was luck for Jack, not a planned outcome for him.
To add to this, I have since found out the unethical GM and one of the earlier directors appear to have a history of scamming people. Farrell has been trying to milk a US investor to set up another bar but hopefully the concerted efforts of three of us based in Australia have deterred the partner from letting Farrell get his hands on her money. I've also done what I can to get Farrell deported as an overstayer, but it's not in my power to revoke his visa.
Look I enjoyed selling pinball and amusement games, it was a fun industry, but knowing what I found out after working at Bumper I have no regrets leaving there even though it took 5 months to find another job and I have family to support.
Blame me for the fiasco if you want an accessible identity who you can contact, I don't mind, all I know is I did what I was paid for and then I left after finding out I had been misled on several things and have since tried to have this cancerous pairing excised. It doesn't get people's money back but it might get some closure and help prevent other scams from getting off the ground.
Rack off Jamie, you are not wanted or needed here. Go play somewhere else.
Quoted from Andyj965:Nice wording. IF is the important part of that sentence. The problem is that with the contradictions and deceipt displayed in many of your posts it is quite obvious that you did know you were lying.
Of course he was lying. I have all the emails he sent saying everything would be alright even after we knew it wasn't. I also made phone calls to him and he was so evasive. He is full of it.
Quoted from Noodlebox:You guys are not seeing the logic, maybe because you don't want to because I am your only available vent - go ahead, but ask yourself this - Why would I protect someone who I found out to be lying to me?
I don't, I wouldn't, and I haven't. Maybe you should apply the same tar and feathers to all the other Bumper employees who have provided reassurance in other forums? But you haven't, why is that?
If my story changed, you think it might be because I found out something different to what I had been told and already reported?
As I said, ping me if you want, but I think I'm the wrong target.
Why not spend YOUR time chasing Jack? He has the games and the money.
We are chasing Jack but we don't need or want your input. Like it or not, you made a lot of enemies when you were at Bumper. You may not have caused the problem but you sure as hell tried to hide it and tell us it was all OK .
Quoted from Noodlebox:You're a slow reader. I didn't hide anything. I said what was told me and when I found out different I said otherwise. I changed my story once it became clear to me that I was being misled. You would prefer I didn't?
Getting really close to using language that could get me banned. What part of 'rack off' don't you understand. You are not helping here and you are not wanted here.
Quoted from Noodlebox:Interesting how if you don't like the message, you play the messenger. What part of "I didn't steal your money" don't you understand?
I never said you stole our money, but you were the spin doctor for those that did and I, and plenty of others will never forgive you for the crap you told us. Now go away.
Quoted from Noodlebox:What part of "I said what I was told and then I found out otherwise and left soon after" don't you understand? Geez I must've been hopeless at my job if you can't separate the message from the people.
Oh wait, you believed what I had been told too. How does that make you different to me?
You should maybe expend your enmity and key strokes on Jack.
I know the truth Jamie. I have all the emails and PMs and AA threads and you knew so don't try telling us now that you didn't. So be a shepherd and get the flock out of here.
Quoted from txstargazer3:Pauloz, if you argue with an idiot he will drag you down to his level and beat you with his experience.
You are right, I am done with this liar.
Quoted from Audioenslaved:Really I haven't been in any communication lately saying that they're all gone... Even though I don't have the funds to buy one
I didn't get any emails either.
Quoted from Audioenslaved:It's getting hot in here so Jack send our games! It's getting HOT in here so keep that flame on high! I just want an end to this!
There is an end coming. Scott has it under control, just be patient for a little longer.
Quoted from Audioenslaved:The letter from his "lawyers" has been coming for 3 weeks now. I'm sorry Paul but the wait it out option has expired! Keep it in everyone's eye so they can see what they're getting into before giving this godly man any money until hey has done the right thing by us and the apparent 40 other WOZECLE game buyers
Just got an email from Scott with a timeframe. I can send you a copy if you don't already have it. Wait till then and if it does not happen this ttime, I will get out my blow torch and flame on with you but lets give what is already in the pipeline a shot first.
Quoted from Mato:Yep massive mess and JJP has known this all along, the WOZ group aren't being greedy and going for all the money they have cut their losses and are just going for the fully paid machines.
Good thing is there all in it together and it would be easy for the fully paid 22 to say stuff the rest of you we want our money only, but even though they have lost a lot their willing to share with everyone that has lost.
Its not quite like that. The money jack has is the initial deposits that JJP required from everyone who paid. The rest of the money paid ( those that paid more than the initial deposit and those that paid in full was what went into the void after some creative accounting.
Once the 22 games are received and sold, the money will be split up on a percentage basis on how much was actually paid.
Quoted from RobT:Do the 60 WOZLE's that JJP says are left to make include the 22 that are supposed to go to Australia?
Not quite sure.
Quoted from RGR:None of the 22 pins will be kept by anyone? Why not just get the money instead?
After looking at the options, the preferred option was to get the games and sell them.
Quoted from sd_tom:So is there nothing further really about going after the $300k that's also missing ?
Would be sending good money in after bad.
Quoted from RGR:Yeah I was trying so ask, whether any of the 22 games would be bought *again* by the buyers that were expecting them... I guess not...would end up costing them 20,000+
Actually Richard, they will almost all be taken up by the ripped off buyers. I already know a few, myself included that couldn't wait for these and have bought the game elsewhere.
Quoted from jrush2112:I think Jack was very cool to you guys when he didn't have to if I was him I wouldn't give you assholes anything you're nothing but cry babies
A tad harsh don't you think? Some of the guys have been a little OTT in their posts in my opinion but I can understand their anger.
I would like to know how you would react if you had lost 11k.
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Tuscaloosa, AL