Not a golden deal.

That price is the original dealer price to Bumper. Jack is not helping out in any way other than agreeing to ship games at the price they were originally to be purchased for, but these will not be genuine 1/1000 LEs. Jack had sold those LEs to other people while still holding deposits from Bumper on those games. In most western countries you cannot sell the same item twice to two different people as that is called f***d. But Jack did.

Jack ripped off Bumper by failing to deliver against the order and keeping the $150,000. Notwithstanding that, Bumper had spent the customers' money expecting that Jack would deliver and Bumper would pay the balance to him from cashflow over time. Jack never delivered and Bumper got found out.

Nothing will excuse Bumper's misappropriation and that company will soon fold, but what is Jack's excuse for taking the dough and promising games to two different customers of JJP (Bumper and WOZ group) and not delivering?

The best way forward is JJP makes all 76 games and ships them.

Actually, Jack had started selling the Bumper LE games on or before May 2012, some two months before the Bumper rollover. I found a customer's game number in someone else's hands, and another customer came to us to sday he had seen his game in someone else's lounge room. When Jack was confronted, he said "oh yeah, been meaning to tell you guys..."

Jack had sold the same machines twice. Bumper still has a valid part paid invoice that lists specific LE numbers that Jack has since sold to other people.

Them's the facts, Jack.

Walmart
Supasize portions
Oversoft car suspension
Crack cocaine

And then there's the positives:

Walmart
Supasize portions
Coors beer
Camaro
Pinball

Yes indeed. The Americans were coming down on a train from North Queensland having been fighting in New Guinea, and a north bound train heading to the fighting was loaded with Aussie soldiers. An Aussie asked the Americans where they were going, and was told, "to scr*w your wives and girlfriends", which earned the speaker a rifle butt in the face - as it should. A shooting match, I'm not so sure about that. My old man told me this story, his mates were on the train going north and yes he is Australian (but as a kiwi I don't tell too many people that !).

Nope. Jack doesn't have enough money to make all the machines, let alone refund in cash. Best chance is to get some games where JJP only needs some labour or parts to get them finished. Cash he does not have. Or if he does' he's not parting with it.

We went through the same decision shifting at Bumper, so it's no surprise to see a commitment to make games superseded by a reason why JJP can't make games. The pattern is this - a "commitment" followed by an excuse to buy even more time. End result, 3 years later, here we are.

Good luck with getting things settled Scott. Seems like you're nearly there.

Bumper on the other hand has disappeared

IMG_1202.jpg

Not quite Wayne. Paul H the shadow man has apparently picked over the carcass and taken what he wants. Cashbox will not be becoming the new Bumper, Bumper may instead be paying a debt handing over remaining machines.

And evidently Farrell's US connection has suddenly come to her senses, so perhaps that bolt hole has been closed and Farrell will need to be deported instead. Watch this space.

Hey you fellas in the USA, we want to reexport a failed import from Noo York, you guys got room for one more?

Overestimating his own abilities to pull a complex product together.
Overestimating the cost savings from being a manufacturer of other games.
Overestimating his own charm and goodwill.

Underestimating the time frame.
Underestimating the potential for delays through flawed early design, underspecification of parts and suppliers refusing to supply through not being paid.
Underestimating the rising costs due to these delays.
Underestimating the frustration and anger people can develop for misdirection, obfuscation and outright BS.
Underestimating the powers that frustrated Aussies have for recovering their money or their games.

5 to 3 against. Jack can't win.

Eliminate the last two underestimations, and we still have charm, confidence and expectations up against planning, planning and planning.

Seems the 7 Ps of Success were ignored :

Proper
Prior
Planning
Prevents
P*ss
Poor
Performance!

Buncha leeches methinks.
Davehowyagoingmateorright?
Didjabringyagrogalong?

images.jpg

"Cranking" implies a large number being made. Can't see any evidence of lots of people saying they got their LEs.

Yep right now I would not want to do a bank transfer as they're too hard to get back.

It could be a very smart move - lower rental costs, no doubt higher loyalty from otherwise unemployed locals, and probably a subsidy from city council or local economic development agency to relocate there. They may bring 20-30 jobs to an otherwise impoverished area, and good on them for doing so. The locals will be happy. Not every business needs a high street address that makes them charge like a wounded bull.

Sorry Scott I just can't see this working out. The legal beagle move is probably a delaying tactic, Jack had the opportunity to return money or games a year ago and never did. All he ever seems to do is agree to something that buys HIM more time.

For JJP to make your 22 games, that means one month of output to make your games with no new income for JJP in that time, and the cost to make the games at say $4500 each. Ergo it would cost JJP around $250,000 to honour the deal and make your games ahead of anyone else's (using cost of game plus lost income in that manufacturing period).

Someone else with manufacturing experience please prove me wrong.

De nada. Those facebook pics are a few days old, and not dated. If JJP wanted to keep confidence up, he would use a date stamp on pictures posted.

Nope, just pointing out another missed opportunity to show fact rather than uncertainty.

Good luck with that Scott. Truly.

But call me a cynic, methinks JJP will set up an agreement with you to seem like it's all being sorted out (like all previous conversations and promises), and then will find reasons not to make the games just yet until all other machines are made and paid for incl Ruby WOZ, AULE and outstanding orders for standards. They will schmooze you and reassure you while making sure they have a back door, and they'll use it.

I expect you will find some "get out" clauses in case something comes up that supposedly leaves JJP exposed somehow. Look for clauses that would allow JJP not to make your games for any reason at all ie potential liability if any other Oz Woz buyer not in your group decides to take some action.

JJP need to know this is the end of their line for stringing out Aussie WOZ buyers for 3 and a half years.

If JJP don't deliver this time, there is still one more thing you can do to get Jack's real attention.

I came in after all the games had been sold and the money already spent. I worked with what I was told. That was to be that the new business would take over the franchise and work with Jack to get the games, I have an email from Jack to another person saying that the Bumper changeover was a "just a formality", but since found Jack was already working behind the scenes to change distributor for someone who would pay more money up front - the change of Bumper ownership just gave him the chance to dump Bumper and pocket what he had been paid already. What Farrell/Bumper did was wrong, in both iterations of the company. Jack himself has dirty hands as he had no intention of allowing the transfer of the franchise despite letting Bumper tell peop,e it was going ahead, and that changeover is what exposed Bumper's earlier shenanigans. This was luck for Jack, not a planned outcome for him.

To add to this, I have since found out the unethical GM and one of the earlier directors appear to have a history of scamming people. Farrell has been trying to milk a US investor to set up another bar but hopefully the concerted efforts of three of us based in Australia have deterred the partner from letting Farrell get his hands on her money. I've also done what I can to get Farrell deported as an overstayer, but it's not in my power to revoke his visa.

Look I enjoyed selling pinball and amusement games, it was a fun industry, but knowing what I found out after working at Bumper I have no regrets leaving there even though it took 5 months to find another job and I have family to support.

Blame me for the fiasco if you want an accessible identity who you can contact, I don't mind, all I know is I did what I was paid for and then I left after finding out I had been misled on several things and have since tried to have this cancerous pairing excised. It doesn't get people's money back but it might get some closure and help prevent other scams from getting off the ground.

I wasn't the architect or the beneficiary of the scam. Bumper owes me >$3k and a week before Xmas owed me 4 weeks pay at that time, while Farrell paid himself $90k and had access to another $13k over 3 months.

Anyway fellas, what I'm saying is I hope Scotty can pull it off but I fear Jack will just use the lawyers' involvement to buy himself some more time and excuses.

Jack would not know how Del Rees/Farrell treated customer payments, it was none of his business, just as he would not know the workings inside other distributors.

So there was no reason for Jack NOT to transfer the franchise, but he was being tempted by another distributor who was waving money around the place so was looking for a reason to shift the distributorship and the Bumper changeover gave him one.

If I was lied to and passed it on without knowing it was a lie then I wasn't lying intentionally. Are Jack's continued missed dates lies? If he knew he couldn't make the date when he gave the date then they were. If he was genuine in his estimate then he wasn't. At what point do repeated wrong guesses become lies?

Why? to make room for you? I don't swing that way. Best to leave me to my own contortions.

You guys are not seeing the logic, maybe because you don't want to because I am your only available vent - go ahead, but ask yourself this - Why would I protect someone who I found out to be lying to me?

I don't, I wouldn't, and I haven't. Maybe you should apply the same tar and feathers to all the other Bumper employees who have provided reassurance in other forums? But you haven't, why is that?

If my story changed, you think it might be because I found out something different to what I had been told and already reported?

As I said, ping me if you want, but I think I'm the wrong target.

Why not spend YOUR time chasing Jack? He has the games and the money.

You're a slow reader. I didn't hide anything. I said what was told me and when I found out different I said otherwise. I changed my story once it became clear to me that I was being misled. You would prefer I didn't?

WGAS?

I DIDN'T scam anyone, and I am only pointing out how I think Jack will try to wriggle out of his commitment, again. If anyone thinks a post on Pinside would cause Jack to not make the Aussie pins, then obviously you also think Jack will take any reason to renege on his deals - and my published suspicions would prove true. But I really don't think that would be the case.

Interesting how if you don't like the message, you play the messenger. What part of "I didn't steal your money" don't you understand?

What part of "I said what I was told and then I found out otherwise and left soon after" don't you understand? Geez I must've been hopeless at my job if you can't separate the message from the people.

Oh wait, you believed what I had been told too. How does that make you different to me?

You should maybe expend your enmity and key strokes on Jack.

And I know you don't have everything viz emails from Jack and my notes from conversations with Farrell, plus stuff from other sources. You only have your piece of things such as emails we or Jack sent you, not the whole thing such as emails between Bumper and JJP. And I can tell you, I'm glad I left even with 5 months unemployment following and no welfare to draw off (as a Kiwi in Oz).

To prove you know it all, why don't you find something meaty about JJP from the period late May 2013 to October 2013 (period when I was defending Bumper), find my contrary or "untrue" post and then find the "actual" stuff that gives lie to my words.

I then get a right of reply to correct anything you say that I can show was wrong. Deal?

Or you can STFU and accept that sh*t happened in Del's time and at handoever to Farrell, I was then later recruited and did what I was paid for and then I gladly left.

Yep, everything. The machines were sold before I was hired so the money was taken by others, who misspent it on premises improvements and god knows what else. They had a year to blow the dough before I turned up. Not sure what additional money you think I am helping them lose. The WOZ Action Group spent their own money hiring lawyers to look at recovering money from a liquidated company, and chasing another later company that was deemed by the local courts to not be responsible for the money paid to the earlier company. I didn't have a part in the earlier company or its spending decisions, and I provided info to many separate buyers of WOZ to help them with their claims against Jack and the earlier company ownership. The two people who were architects of the waste of money are a former Director Hill and the recently gone-to-ground GM Farrell. Yeah I did what I was paid for, until I saw for myself the nature of the people I was really working for.

I can't get that search string to work, all I get are pages of Bumper at the old address in City Rd. Nothing with Cashbox linking to that phone number. Besides, I think Leo might have taken over the assets in exchange for cancelling of the significant debt Farrell/Bumper owed him and he is not trying to help Farell get away with things.

Firstly, the current Bumper has the debt to Cashbox, not the old one, though some debt may have rolled over, who knows? Other creditors could have taken product for payment, and some have. I am aware of two sizeable creditors who took product in lieu of cash payment over the last 6 months. Unfortunately we ploebs didn't have that influence over things when it came to getting overdue wages and superannuation payments. Had I been offered product instead I would have taken it. But none of the product left in the showroom was terribly appealing.

Not sure if it is Footscray, there were parts of the Bumper building outside the showroom that have those wall features and overhead walkway visible in part of the clip.

Visited Footscray today, and can confirm the building in the video you refer to is NOT Footscray. Two Bumper staff were there but they said they had no idea who they worked for, and Farrell hadn't visited them in over a week.

Was also told that the Bumper stock in Footscray was handed over in lieu of payment.

So it looks like Farrell and Hill are just trying to creep away from Bumper Mk III.

They have left the web site and Facebook pages intact, though there are no premises that Bumper is trading from and apparently no-one answering the phone. They have used product to pay bills and have no stock, despite there being a catalogue on the website for download touting product for sale.

With no evident assets and debts for unpaid wages and perhaps unpaid rent, it looks like Bumper III could be guilty of trading while insolvent. Not sure how that would look to Immigration when they review Farrell's status as a potential overstayer... Anyone care to test the water with ASIC?

That will be the most saleable machine Bumper had which Farrell has held back hoping to get some $ for himself, the rest of the machines have been used pay debts and are gone. The game was listed for $6000 originally so $4000 is a fire sale price in this context. There was also a photo of Patrick Stewart taken at the signing of the translite.

He'd be more(?) pleased to know $100k+ plus of stock at valuation was sold to Farrell for $38k.

Good luck Scott. Keep the pressure on. Maybe ask Jack to send you an early draft so nothing is a surprise later...

As does pocketing $125,000 and failing to deliver machines, plus breaking many delivery dates.

Fellas, read up earlier. The local courts decreed that Del Reiss' company (that was later sold to the directors who later liquidated the company as they fell out with each other and sold the business to the then GM (NOT for bankruptcy), that is the deemed owner of the games (and refunds). The courts deemed the later versions of Bumper did not have a claim to the machines or money.

Del Reiss has since died.

Furthermore, the more recent owners of Bumper gave a letter to JJP stating that they would not be making a claim against JJP in regard to the overdue games and money. (Not sure what the Bumper customers thought of that...).

From what I understand, the liquidator of the company that bought the business from Reiss has said that WOZ games (and liabilities to buyers) were not listed in the schedule of assets of the company that was liquidated (that bought the business from Reiss and sold it again later to the GM).

So JJP has ended up with $125,000 and only shipped 4 machines. If he refuses to ship more games then I think he's exposed to federal US laws.

JJP COULD be sued by
a) Reiss' estate (return the money or the games); or
b) the liquidator of the company that was second owner of the business; or
c) the WOZ buyers who would argue the money given to JJP was money supposedly held in trust (but not actually).

So yes it's a CF.

A SNAFU that is really a FUBAR or a situation that SAPFU.

Jack is right to talk to lawyers, but any good lawyer doesn't take weeks to do what they are asked.

Any customer willing to sign a letter that gets a game/refund is one less reason for either a) or b) above to be viable.

Early 2013.

Debatable.

Lately I'm just correcting errors and assumptions for people who haven't read this whole thread or the other ones. This thread like others should have discussion based on accurate info.

That said, it looks like Jack is going to get the Aussie pins out the door, which will bring a wonderful end to this godawful drama, albeit a poor outcome for some, I have often said the best approach is to go after the games not the money.

For those who were not in the AusWOZ ginger group, there is still recourse if anyone can be bothered.

Aussies.

Hmmmmm....... So another week for the "finishing touches". Then two months for the games to be built at that rate. Essentially Jack is buying himself another 2+ months to ship these games.

Doesn't seem like he's really that keen to fix up the OZ WOZ mess, does it? If he was truly keen, he would make all the games ASAP, and not in dribs and drabs spread over a few weeks (obviously he needs the cash flow from later games to cover the cost of making the OZ WOZ). In which case, if a dizzy pops up and wants ten standard games then the OZ games will get bumped again...

Suggest you ask Jack for photos every week of finished games in boxes with serial numbers and shipping to Aus. Make sure the boxes are sealed and not just empty...

(Robin this post is not agenda driven, it is a commercial test of a supplier's genuine commitment to supply.)

How is that different to my comments, JJP will ONLY make the games alongside others due to the constraints already evident on the business?

Maybe you should play the ball instead. I note you could not and did not rebut my points. Given Jack's many missed ship dates, would you act differently to what I suggested above?

Scotty, you know they were not.

Jack decided to start selling the AU WOZ machines in May/June 2013 without encouragement from Bumper, and he was publicly rumbled on that when a Bumper WOZ customer came to Bumper saying he had seen his game in someone else's living room in USA (on Pinside).

Yes, people have had a messy time getting ANY games as a result of Bumper's behaviour, but Bumper's ECLE games were taken by Jack before the mess became apparent.

I'm pleased that you seem to be getting somewhere with JJP. Proof of the pudding...

(Evidence for above comment: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/woz-delays-continue/page/16 , posts numbered 769 and 780. The two numbers on the games were allocated to Domenic C. and Hal H. who were Bumper customers, and I have the original JJP invoice to Bumper with those numbers on it.

That sequence gives the US delivery 26 July 2013, about the time old Bumper died and two weeks before JJP advised that the WOZ franchise was going somewhere else. There was another post in another thread of a US guy with his new WOZ in his lounge, the number belonged to a Bumper customer, and I think that was in May 2013 in another thread).