Agree here, but if he doesn't then there is a problem

I'm in the minority as I think this thread is warranted and I pray Jack will come through, because if he d doesn't then none of us should ever buy a game from him. Fortunately, I have confidence that JJP will make right.

Remember it takes JJP a bit to make games and to make 22 may take longer than 3 weeks.

I heard rumors of 3-8 per week. That's the rumor and since its been 4 weeks and Jack publicly said three weeks I'm assuming optimistic manufacturing delivery dates. If someone knows JJPS last 4 week production average please let us, know as I HATE the rumors I've heard recently, but they are believable if games have not yet shipped.

So either jjp has production problems or jjp did not make good on his promise. I hope its production issues and not t he latter.

This post makes the most sense in this entire thread. I'd get back to the day by day post.

Day 31 contacted Jack no response
Day 32 Jack said games are in production
DAY 39 Jack said pictures soon
DAY 41no response
DAY 42 no 're d posse
DAY 45 Jack said 2 more weeks
Day 59 finally got pics
DAY 94 games have arrived much rejoicing

Overall I think you get the point to post a timeline and keep us informed. No need to say anymore than a civil timeline. We can follow it and see how JJP comes out of it.

If JJP fails to deliver we can drum up some support to boycott the company as I read the post and you were promised 22 games. As I said beforeI'm sure Jack will deliver or Jjp will go bankrupt. I do not think jjp will stay in business a nd not deliver the games and if he does not deliver I'm sure some fellow pinsiders from all nations will support our Australian pinhead brothers and sisters in pressuring Jack to deliver.

I don't get that. Jack has money for 22 games. I'm sure it would ruin his reputation if he did nothing. I'm shocked that so many give Jack a pass. These guys are officially owed 22 games per JJP's post.

You guys coming and saying Jack doesn't have to ship these games are wrong. I think the fallout if Jack does not make this right would be huge, but several of you are not defending the victims.

So let's ask the most important question.

Put yourself in the position of being out several thousand dollars and then tell me it's okay and JJP doesn't have to send games and it's okay to treat people the way these guys are being treated.

Well I think we have about 3 of the 79 on here. I'd recommended starting a petition if Jack does not respond. Can be very easy to put the pressure on in other ways that will get more done and hopefully get these guys a resolution.

All we really want is for these guys to get what they were told they would get.

I suggested this and is documents everything and also builds a case against JJP if that is ultimately needed.

Also keeps us up to date on this and helps build support from all of us as there is not much negative we can comment on if you are just posting facts. I believe your support for doing this will help get you to your end resolution at a much faster rate.

I agree on that Jersey Jack change as Jack is president and officially the company has your money unless Jack hid it somewhere

This entire thread is getting old as JJP should in some fashion answer these guys. I'm cancelling or confirming my Hobbit order has been cancelled today. I'll buy one only if this matter is settled and I do not plan on supporting Jjp until this situation is settled.

You people who defend JJP in this really disappoint me. There are so many better ways Jack could handle things and broken promises do happen, but the lack of being honest and somewhat transparent with his customer base is what is sickening

I have an idea

If we on pinside would each contribute $$ or auction some stuff for funds could JJP possible match what we raise and somehow get the games to these people.

I think it would be difficult to raise a lot of money, but if JJP would match maybe we can each give $20 we could raise a nice amount to help these guys out. They really did get screwed and I know its a pinball machine and not a house, but there has to be someway we can help these guys out and work with JJP maybe behind the scenes to get it done..

Oh I'm outraged. I'm not going to say I'm not going to buy a JJP game, but I'm certainly not going to preorder one and if I do buy one, maybe I'll go through Bene or get one second hand. I'm not going to directly give JJP any money until this thing is resolved.

4 weeks ago Jack posted a promise to deliver and now that's been erased. I have a strong feeling these guys are not going to get the games based on what has transpired

Robin,

You are awesome as this thread should stay open so we can get updates.

Now off to send these guys a donation.

Okay so what's going on with the fighting fund? Can you guys post that information as I will make a contribution.

Awesome sent some $ to help out

Just give him a thumbs up on another post like I did. Great synopsis!

Oh I hope prepay only exists in the form of a refundable small deposit with balance due when games are ready to ship. This other schedule Jjp and others use is broken and needs to die as all it does it put t us as consumers at risk.

I cancelled mine. The risk is $ 500.00

Pre orders were at $7500.00 now list is $8000.00 if JJP makes the game.

Knowing the way JJP works if you want it sooner you should wait and pay the $8K as I'm sure those who preordered

Well you would think Stern would be all over this with a new display, but rumor is 2 games out until we see it.

Why not is that new company is not run properly or treats customers poorly. I do not want to go back and fourth and I am starting a bit of trouble, but I do not think Jack or JJP should get a pass on this.

I also do not buy the any argument pro or against JJP being good or bad for pinball. I can argue that WOZ being built is great, but counter argue that all WOZ and JJP made was a massive price increase across the board to everyone.

So I'm standing on neutral and really hoping the Australia group get what is owed to them and if they do not I'm okay with JJP closing shop

Or not start up a business - Vonnie D with those shenanigans

I like the options, but hate the stupid prepay model. I'd rather that went away. There are some awesome companies out there like Heighway, Skit-B, Dutch Pinball and of course I love what Spooky is bringing to the table.

Between JJP, JPOP and Dutch pinball I hope the prepay crap stops. Dutch Pinball I give a pass as they may deliver on time, but JJP and JPOP are waaaaaaay late with delivery or progress.

You are correct and I cancelled my Hobbit Preorder, but JPOP still has my $$ and I'm not thrilled with those delays. I think we all need to wise up and not buy into the prepay model. This way we force these companies to make the games to feed themselves.

Hell with JPOP and JJP preorders probably funded the company. I want Big Lebowski from Dutch pinball, but I'm not pre ordering it because the other companies like JJP and JPOP leave me with bad feelings.

The fact that 200 people still do not have their WOZ LE is pathetic!!! These people helped fund the company.

The fact that the Aussies are being screwed around with is pathetic business practice.

I agree with the bashing as a good kick in the nuts is what is needed to change current bad practice or attitude.

Maybe we can kick Stern in the nuts to get us code quicker. - I do not want to be completely negative on JJP

Yep and I think the financial downfall from this is going to sting a little. If 5-10 people cancel the hobbit, then that's a little sting. If JJPs actions cost him a 100 orders, then maybe that's the kick in the ass he needs.

Re-read it all you want as it's the stupidest thing I've read from a company spokesperson in ages. Just did not need to be said in any context

A week should be ample time for him to talk to his lawyers and get the requirements together. If he already got legal advice it should be fairly simple to update you in a week

Well a week for Jack to continue contact with them or at least update them on progress.

Or maybe he does not have the cash flow to pay his suppliers or pays net 90 instead of net 30 who knows. Lots of things could be the issue. I think JJP gets more support from the pinball community if he's open about all of this.

Maybe, but why not just say the obvious. We are working on the WOZLE in combination with the standards. We rely on a balance of positive cash flow and new orders to keep day to day operations moving and apologize for unforeseen delays in the production. I assure you that those that Pre ordered both the Hobbit and Woz will be first in line for the Hobbit.

- This would win some of those who waited forever over as the reward would be first in line for The Hobbit.

And then maybe investors would not have backed out.

Yep if you want a game, I'd almost guarantee new orders will get games before those that preordered. That's what happened with WOZ. I can buy one today, while 200 people are still waiting for a LE.

Please explain how that is acceptable?

I do not see the LE market increasing in value. WOZECLE is currently going around $6700 - $7000

Only games that seem to be worth more than what they sold for are BIBLE and TRON LE. You might argue for LOTR LE and BSM, but none of the other LE games have increased in value. Maybe METLE holds value. Who knows, but the current Pre Order and LE model is broken.

Bravo. I agree and am also a business owner who still cannot believe JJP gets away with this. Maybe I'm just jealous as life would be so much easier if everyone prepaid us

Jack should be looked at as a business and should not get away with these antics.

I'll give you 5 that Heighway produces 800 games before 2016. Andrew is a sharp guy and will run a great business. He is making games and going to take money 30-60 days prior to shipment. There is no real preorder model, so he has incentive to move and build games.

Do not confuse yourself on this one. Spooky built 2 games in less than 2 years. there are some very sharp business minded pinball enthusiast, that can operate and run a respectable business. I'm 100% behind companies like Spooky and Heighway. These manufacturers are our hope for progress with $6K games. Stern is Stern and I will continue to support them, but I do not like the lack of code updates. JJP, well unless something changes I'm 100% done with them. The reason Stern LE games are now $8K is because of JJP. I'm not convinced Jack has done that much positive for the hobby besides setting up this ridiculous prepay 1-2 years before release model.

JPOP followed suit and I regret sending him my money. Sooner or later several of us are going to take a big loss on this prepay model when one of these manufacturer's fails to deliver.

I'm happy I'm out on the Hobbit and very nervous about having $6K plus with JPOP right now.

Guys like Heighway and Spooky, I will support and buy games knowing they will not have my $$ for long and that I can live with 50% payment and another 50% when the game is ready. JJP had my WOZ $$ for 2 years before I got a game.

Just not going to do it anymore. I wish the rest of you would do the same. Who really cares if one of the 6-8 pinball companies does not make it? Best of luck to all of them, but if they run a crooked business, any one of them, then they do not deserve to be in business and the marketplace will sort it out. None of them should get a free pass.

Stern, Spooky, Skit-B, Heighway, PPS, JJP, JPOP, dutch Pinball are the 8 players. My guess is they will not all survive. If I were a betting person my $$ goes with Spooky, Stern and Heighway as I like their business model. I'm on the fence with Dutch Pinball, PPS and Skit-B as far as sustainability. Do not get me wrong I like what they are doing, just not sure how it will shake out JJP and JPOP, well I think there business model needs major retooling in several different ways .

Would it really be that bad if we are left with 3-4 solid companies who we all can trust? This hobby cannot sustain 8 manufacturer's of games!! - That's my opinion, but law of averages dictates that these exact 8 will not be here in 5 years.

Enough said its free market and my advice is spend your $ wisely.

Do you count Captain Nemo and Homepin's game? If so then its 10. What about the company in mexico that made Canasta remake? Exciting times for pinball, but no way all of these manufacturer's can survive and thrive.

I drew the line at those making at least 100 games

Yeh, but he has money and maybe he's bringing employment to a desolate area. - We will see his game in production in a few weeks, so the answer is near

The Problem with JJP is one bad title or flop will kill his business. WOZ is so radically different that it is a must own for many. That will wear off a bit by The Hobbit. By game #3, it better be solid and production better be there.

Well we know Spooky is doing runs of 100 now.

Heighway will have it

JJP has made a game

Skit-B should be on game 2-3

Dutch Pinball is kicking arse but that is a ?

PPS MMR are running and I assume they will put out 1 game a year until they pick a title that does not sell well ?

JPOP - ???????? Current pace dictates what, another 2-3 years away.

Magic Girl is way late. In his defense, money has stopped coming in. He has about 60% of the total and I have not made a payment in ages so at least he has some incentive. If he had all of it, well I'd be raising hell at the current pace. As I said, I'm not pre paying again

Oh that's priceless

I do not know what is funnier

Jack threatening suite without any money to pay lawyers
or
The fact that he just threatened with letters

WOZ sucks - Now come sue me.

Note: WOZ doesn;t really suck, but I want to receive a threatening letter from JJP to frame

That is very promising news. I think Jack finally realized what will happen if he does not follow through in getting these games to the group.

Yeh I really want to see it and would like the recipient to post it pretty pretty please with a cherry on top

Disclaimer Warning!! You may wet yourself from laughing too hard at this video

http://www.youtube.com/embed/O9aER3G9K2M?autoplay=1&rel=0

Plus one. I want / need to see it

Great news. I think Jack had his hand forced and has to make right. I for one will support jjp if he comes through for you guys.

Hopefully, you will have your games soon.

Did the final agreement get sent?

Well said

I do not know. I pre ordered full throttle, but cancelled my Hobbit. The only reason I see to preorder is an upfront discount assuming the game will ship within a few months of ordering.

It should be published.

Well the Rescue Edition sounds awesome. Looking forward to seeing one. I'm also happy as I can now buy a Hobbit as JJP is making things right.