It is not fraud if you are using the $$$ to perform miracles. Which he clearly is. Can't you give the guy at least a decade to get up and running? Sheesh!

1 . Didn't Jack make people to through Bumper after some point? I have never been clear on this, but it reads like once Bumper became the distro for JJP, you had to use them.

2. Did Jack receive the $$ for 22 games? If he has that cash, how is it a favor to deliver those games?

Well, to be completely fair, Jack doesn't have a right to sit on that money, either. It is traceable. And as the distro that Jack hand picked for the area, he shares in some of that responsibility. Agency/distro issues and all.

But that doesn't answer the question about if Jack made customers go through bumper at any point.

Well, the $$ is treacebale. It is clear that he has deposit money from 83 people for WOZ, and those 83 are easy to identify. Jack chose a distributor to rep him in Oz. His distro shit the bed. Jack bears some of that. If Jack pocketed that cash and said tough titty, there would be hell to pay. He knows that, and the 83 know that.

I was under the impression that Jack made everyone to through Bumper after some point in time. But even if he did not, they were his distro. Jack's hands are clean as far as Bumper's terrible actions. But he does have $$ that unjustly enriched him, that clearly puts some onus on JJP to make some form of accounting.

Yeah, I hadn't really been paying attention to this one, but after I started thinking about the moving parts and the jurisdictional issues, it started giving me an ice cream headache. That is a total mess.

Man, it does you a heap of shit for good, but I feel for everyone involved in this thing. From the deposit lost guy, total paid in lost guy, all the way up to Jack. Nightmare.

What partners? That deal fell through. At least all evidence suggests it did.

Yeah, try to find any reference to it now. That presser disappeared, Jack stopped talking about it, and gave ambiguous enough answers about it the one time he mentioned it again to presume it went south.

Um....yeah. Where have you been since that day? That disappeared from JJP's site and Jack made ambiguous remarks about it afterward.

Without any communication, facts, discourse, or any of the "openness" promised during the process, what more do we have than speculation?

There was a ton of discussion afterward. Nothing else was ever said about it, and then someone noticed a few weeks later that the press release had disappeared from the website. I don't recall exactly what Jack said regarding it, and it if was here or at the WOZ Owners Forum, but it essentially boiled down to we weren't ever in the red and we are moving forward with production regardless of what happened.

Look, like it or not....like me or not.....Jack could clear 3 years worth of questions up with a snap of his finger and five minutes constructing a post on his own machine owners' forum. He has been telling everyone that the LE run is finishing up for damned near a year now. That's after he was two years late on production to begin with. The Aussies got royally screwed, and Jack made public statements and guarantees (for what a Jack guarantee is worth, see: WOZ Production Guarantees and History). Where is he? What's the deal now? Where are the 200-ish LEs that his own 60-90 day clock started about 120 day ago?

In the absence of information, speculation is what we got. Sorry. But that is true. People come sniffing around here looking for info on WOZ or Hobbit, and they deserve to know the whole truth of the matter. Not just the blown sunshine from the people that have given the company an eternal free pass just because he lit a fire for pinball under their asses. The Aussies are the ones with the equity in this particular issue. And the ones with skins on these walls. If they have differences of opinion about how to rectify their situation, they have the right to hash it out. But screw anybody spitting on someone that got caught up in this nightmare and telling them that they don't have the right to speculate or even demand some information.

There you go. A man's word is his bond, and there are too growing examples of this one's word amounting to reneged promises or compromised follow through.

My condolences to the Aussies. Yet again.

I don't have a horse in this particular race. Anything else is just fanning the flames. Good luck to everyone in sorting it out.

The international nature makes this extremely complicated. But the deposit money that was given to JJP was not an asset of Bumper. I am certainly no expert in Australian bankruptcy practices, but that would not have been something in a collective pool to use to satisfy creditors. I am certain that there are similar cases out there, but I am unaware of them or their resolution.

JJP and Jack absolutely have the right to full indemnity and release upon delivery of the 22 games - from and to all 79 affected. So long as there is an agreement between the 79 (or at least a majority that will sign indemnity language for the abstainers), this should be easy to draw up and execute.

Playerone's civil reaction, and his promise to contact the group of 79 and get a formal agreement to JJP, suggests that there are still actions that need to be taken by the Aussies. I can see that nothing would have been delivered absent those agreements. Who should have sent what to whom, who requested or failed to request action or agreement, when this was or was not done......we not privy to that information. Let's just hope this is the last of these threads that we see. Action is required on everyone's part. Maybe that is spurred along now.

Perhaps. But absent any protections offered under the bankruptcy and dissolution (of which there are presumptively none) what other option? Maybe all 79 sign off. But if not, what then? It goes into a NJ court registry, then what happens?

After it changed hands? How do you figure it is a reachable asset once paid to the 3rd party?

Clearly no one here has the legal knowledge and skill of you. You have had a lot of classes certified for suit, then? You are suing for punitive damages without gross negligence evidence pretty often?

The only thing that perked my ears up recently was when a local guy told me a few weeks back that he had requested a refund for his Hobbit deposit and payments. I can't remember how much it was, but I think he had put about $5000 toward it. He was told it would be 2 weeks to "process" his refund, and he would have it by a certain date. I talked to him about 4 days after the deadline had passed, and he had not heard anything and had not received his money. I thought this was interesting, just because in the past JJP had been very attentive and responsive about refunding money that was asked back. I know at least a few people that got their WOZ money back within a day or two. That was several months and even maybe more than a year back. But things don't appear to be running the same way now.

Gary doesn't have to come explain himself or why he is not delivering. If holding someone to their word is too much to ask, then they should all put up or shut up.

What's the time limit on this, Ted? How long does he need to be in business before he is out from under that umbrella? 3 years is clearly not enough time. 4? A decade? Or just long enough to invent another excuse? Could you let us know, please?

That is about how much substance and intelligent conversation I expected. Carry on with you emojis and boob pics, toastmaster.

Christmas lights. That's about it. Never seen anything more.

Christmas lights. That's about it. Never seen anything more.

Are you serious? Jack had letters threatening suit sent out for people saying that the machine sucked on RGP.

My point is that he has already paid a lawyer to waste the time to sent letters out for RGP stuff. Just because a claim might have no merit doesn't mean that someone can't go ahead and file it and waste your time and money in doing so. Nobody wants to deal with the headache, even in the face of wrong or injustice or whatever they want righted.

Why is there all this reference to MMr money pouring into JJP? Pinballsales.com sold some MMr machines, but that money went to PPS for the machines. Sure, Pinballsales.com saw a little cut on the machines it sold, but the vast majority of that money went to PPS. JJP is a different entity entirely, and wouldn't see any profit from MMr sales. Even if there was some trickle down, it would be to the tune of $500 per MMr sold, or so. Not a huge cash infusion.

Really?

Ummmm....how about because Stern's factory is bigger, produces far more games, and has a track record of actually building lots of machines in timely order?

I don't know. Didn't see it on a forum. I have seen it discussed in various places. But I knew of it independant of that.

To clarify, I have hard evidence of one letter and can speak with certainty that it exists, and was sent in reference to comments made by an individual on RGP. I have heard rumors of at least one other, maybe two. But I have not seen them to confirm. This was quite a while back. More than a year.

It was not a cease & desist. It was more of a reservation of rights to act in the future letter.

Nothing at all. It was a scare letter.

Nor should it. Pinball forum. Pinball company. Pinball hobbyists. Pinball money. Pinball resources. Pinball connections.

Money was given to a distro in Australia for WOZ games, in varying amounts, by 79 different people. Distro gave JJP deposit money for the 79 (which amounted to enough money to pay for 22 full WOZ machines). Then Distro went belly up and flew the coop. The 79 got together an worked up a plan to sell the machines and divy up the money amongst the 79. Jack came on here a month or so ago and said he would deliver the 22 games and keep the Aussies in the loop. This thread was created when nothing further had happened on that front. Jack came on here eventually and said he needed to know the details of the plan agreed to by the 79, and that there would have to be a system that made sense in place. That catches it up to now.

PM me

I am not doing that. I would leave that to the person receiving it to make it pulic knowledge, if he wished. But plenty of attorneys have "reviewed" the letter and universally agree that it is nonsense at best and actionable improper threat at worst.