Wizard of Oz
Jersey Jack, 2013This topic is closed.
Quoted from StevenP:Completely different business modes/models at Stern (which is on a regular development-production cycle) and JJP (just released their 1st game and had advance pre-orders to support startup and development of brand-new platform, new factory, vendor/supplier relationships, etc.). And when was the last time that Stern released a game that was actually ready?
blah blah blah.jpgQuoted from DreamTR:I know this is besides the point but you could get Wizard of Oz retail from places even though some guys on preorders were still waiting a year for theirs...FULLY PAID.
This is why with as much bs as people said about Stern they can't say a word about things like this happening because Stern releases a game when it is ready and two weeks later, bravo, new game.
Why are you using past tense?
Quoted from lowepg:That's like saying people should just stop complaining about delayed shipments and "just call Jen" - as if that results is honest/accurate answers! lol...
I think you are 100% wrong on this.
Apparently these guys had tried unsuccessfully to privately seek out help from JJP.
It was their appeal HERE that drew a direct & public response from Jack (and a good one) and a commitment to help resolve their issue....
AND, moreover,
For those that are afraid this type of conversation will dampen the rose-colored glasses they view JJP with, its SOOO easy NOT to click the thread. AND, there's an entire thread that's dedicated to shamelessly fawning over the game and no bad thoughts or words are tolerated....
Seems to me this is EXACTLY what an "online forum for the world-wide community of pinball" should be all about....
I agree and dissagree,
I think his point was that it doesnt help their cause to publicly shame the guy who is helping you out (and doesn't have to) and at the same time, blame him along the same lines as Bumber (which I think most ppl (in the US at leasT) seem to disagree with) as a primary cause of the problem itself. That's his opinion.
But i do agree, that its a public forum, and if you want to make a thread to bring light to a situation, more power to ya, just dont expect everyone to agree with you.
As for the WOZ "love fest" thread, IMHO (and for me at least) its less about rose colored glasses, but merely about having a place to have legit WOZ based discussion about the game itself, features, rules for those that play it or own it, without having every new comment start off a new JJP flame war.
Just my .02
Quoted from sd_tom:Why are you using past tense?
Because by the time the fellas "down unda" read it, it's in the past - our past
Quoted from chrisjens2:Because by the time the fellas "down unda" read it, it's in the past - our past
Actually they are a day ahead, they almost lapped us 
Quoted from sd_tom:they almost lapped us
Quoted from StevenP:Completely different business modes/models at Stern (which is on a regular development-production cycle) and JJP (just released their 1st game and had advance pre-orders to support startup and development of brand-new platform, new factory, vendor/supplier relationships, etc.). And when was the last time that Stern released a game that was actually ready?
You seem to forget JJP pinball exists because they didn't like the way the Stern model was. Somehow this is better? They are essentially bankrolling an item based on pre-orders. I still don't get how easily this slips everyone's mind. Stern takes a bath if the games don't sell. JJP is relying on everyone else.
Not being ready is besides the point. Be thankful there are code updates. Many of the Stern games now rival or beat a lot of the Williams stuff out there.
Wizard of Oz under no circumstances is even in the same breath playability wise as a lot of games these days. It looks great but it is all eye candy. People have different tastes in pins, I understand that, however we run 80+ machines here and Wizard of Oz is probably in the bottom 10 in games played here, and it's on a prominent row. We have had more negative things said about that game than any of our other games. Maybe for some reason you think it is a good way to do business. If so I have a limited edition Ghostbusters pinball coming out in 2017. I require $8500 for this machine and the price will go up accordingly. I do take payments. However what protects you from me taking your money with statutes of limitations of a couple of years? I mean, eventually you'll get your pin, but only when I feel like it after my vacations.
How can anyone be so trustworthy with anyone who has not even completely finished one pin, and is taking pre-orders for another?????? Concentrate on the one game to be up to par and get everything finished, then announce other games..this is not the first company to do this either, and everyone seems to be ok with it still I suppose.
If I still had my pre-order in, I would be livid if any of the bumper games were made and shipped before the remaining Fully Paid Years Ago LE's were all shipped. Wouldn't surprise me, but would seriously piss me off. Nothing against the Aussies, I feel for them, but Jack has an obligation to get the pre-orders out first. We were told years ago "first to pay, first to play" Well WOZ is old news now and folk are still waiting for pre-orders, when over a year ago, you could buy them off the shelf, play it, get bored, sell it and move on to the next new thing. Never got my WOZLE, and the drama got so old, I wouldn't even want one now. For my $, I'd bail and consider WOOLY, it looks like 1000x the game anyway.
Quoted from StevenP:Completely different business modes/models at Stern (which is on a regular development-production cycle) and JJP (just released their 1st game and had advance pre-orders to support startup and development of brand-new platform, new factory, vendor/supplier relationships, etc.). And when was the last time that Stern released a game that was actually ready?
wonk wonk wonk, JJP is sooo cool, wonk won wonk- Stern is evil- more wonk wonk wonk, give it a rest already. We get it you like JJP -
Quoted from DreamTR:I have a limited edition Ghostbusters pinball coming out in 2017. I require $8500 for this machine and the price will go up accordingly.
Who, whoa whoa.... just hold on a second!
First things first:
What will the trim color options be?
Quoted from StevenP:And when was the last time that Stern released a game that was actually ready?
WOZ wasn't actually ready either, so what's your point?
Quoted from sd_tom:Actually they are a day ahead, they almost lapped us
Yes... We are from the future.. Current time Thursday 10.25 am 
Quoted from DreamTR:You seem to forget JJP pinball exists because they didn't like the way the Stern model was. Somehow this is better? They are essentially bankrolling an item based on pre-orders. I still don't get how easily this slips everyone's mind. Stern takes a bath if the games don't sell. JJP is relying on everyone else.
Not being ready is besides the point. Be thankful there are code updates. Many of the Stern games now rival or beat a lot of the Williams stuff out there.
Wizard of Oz under no circumstances is even in the same breath playability wise as a lot of games these days. It looks great but it is all eye candy. People have different tastes in pins, I understand that, however we run 80+ machines here and Wizard of Oz is probably in the bottom 10 in games played here, and it's on a prominent row. We have had more negative things said about that game than any of our other games. Maybe for some reason you think it is a good way to do business. If so I have a limited edition Ghostbusters pinball coming out in 2017. I require $8500 for this machine and the price will go up accordingly. I do take payments. However what protects you from me taking your money with statutes of limitations of a couple of years? I mean, eventually you'll get your pin, but only when I feel like it after my vacations.
How can anyone be so trustworthy with anyone who has not even completely finished one pin, and is taking pre-orders for another?????? Concentrate on the one game to be up to par and get everything finished, then announce other games..this is not the first company to do this either, and everyone seems to be ok with it still I suppose.
^^^^^^What he said^^^^^^
Quoted from zippydapinhead:If I still had my pre-order in, I would be livid if any of the bumper games were made and shipped before the remaining Fully Paid Years Ago LE's were all shipped. Wouldn't surprise me, but would seriously piss me off. /blockquote>
As far as I'm aware, all of the machines ordered through Bumper were ECLE's. Many paid in full and most by mid 2012. I understand it's hard to absorb all the facts in this case without reading the thread from the start. But be assured there would be no queue jumping here. To make matters worse,Jack, instead of trying to contact the affected buyers and working something out, as soon as Bumper collapsed he just turned around and resold all our allocated ECLE's twice. That's why we now have the Australian LE version. Will we ever see it? Who knows. A simple update would be nice Jack. You know.......like you said.
Quoted from DreamTR:We have had more negative things said about that game than any of our other games.
What are the negative things people are saying?
Quoted from spfxted:broken record.jpg 6 KB
I see your broken record and raise you some Getto Boys.
QSS
Quoted from Pintucky:Now I am depressed about the Aussies, JJP, WOZ haters, pre-pay haters, Stern haters, unfinished game code haters and all the poor little pygmies of the world . . . "What world! WHAT A WORLD!!!"
me too . . .
Quoted from Playerone:To make matters worse,Jack, instead of trying to contact the affected buyers and working something out, as soon as Bumper collapsed he just turned around and resold all our allocated ECLE's twice.
Actually, Jack had started selling the Bumper LE games on or before May 2012, some two months before the Bumper rollover. I found a customer's game number in someone else's hands, and another customer came to us to sday he had seen his game in someone else's lounge room. When Jack was confronted, he said "oh yeah, been meaning to tell you guys..."
Jack had sold the same machines twice. Bumper still has a valid part paid invoice that lists specific LE numbers that Jack has since sold to other people.
Them's the facts, Jack.
Quoted from DreamTR:You seem to forget JJP pinball exists because they didn't like the way the Stern model was. Somehow this is better? They are essentially bankrolling an item based on pre-orders. I still don't get how easily this slips everyone's mind. Stern takes a bath if the games don't sell. JJP is relying on everyone else.
Not being ready is besides the point. Be thankful there are code updates. Many of the Stern games now rival or beat a lot of the Williams stuff out there.
Wizard of Oz under no circumstances is even in the same breath playability wise as a lot of games these days. It looks great but it is all eye candy. People have different tastes in pins, I understand that, however we run 80+ machines here and Wizard of Oz is probably in the bottom 10 in games played here, and it's on a prominent row. We have had more negative things said about that game than any of our other games. Maybe for some reason you think it is a good way to do business. If so I have a limited edition Ghostbusters pinball coming out in 2017. I require $8500 for this machine and the price will go up accordingly. I do take payments. However what protects you from me taking your money with statutes of limitations of a couple of years? I mean, eventually you'll get your pin, but only when I feel like it after my vacations.
How can anyone be so trustworthy with anyone who has not even completely finished one pin, and is taking pre-orders for another?????? Concentrate on the one game to be up to par and get everything finished, then announce other games..this is not the first company to do this either, and everyone seems to be ok with it still I suppose.
Interesting play figures. I take it you are a pinball only arcade ( no alcohol ) If that's the case it's not a clear test of how WOZ can perform on general location because you will to a large extent be preaching to the converted who already know their favourite machines. But I do hope and expect The Hobbit to perform better on location at all kinds of location.
Quoted from jungle:Interesting play figures. I take it you are a pinball only arcade ( no alcohol ) If that's the case it's not a clear test of how WOZ can perform on general location because you will to a large extent be preaching to the converted who already know their favourite machines. But I do hope and expect The Hobbit to perform better on location at all kinds of location.
Our local arcade(vids and pins, no alcohol, little external lighting) has a WoZ in a row of 8 or 9 pins and it does the best by far. To the general public it really has a "grab your attention" thing going for it. The LCD screen makes it fun to watch so people want to try it.
Quoted from jungle:Interesting play figures. I take it you are a pinball only arcade ( no alcohol ) If that's the case it's not a clear test of how WOZ can perform on general location because you will to a large extent be preaching to the converted who already know their favourite machines. But I do hope and expect The Hobbit to perform better on location at all kinds of location.
We're not a pinball arcade. We're a classic arcade with around 150 arcade and pinball games for a free play rate as well a console game store and console gaming area for fighting games and tournaments. (I have 3 locations, this is one of them)
Remember, we have new Stern machines; those do well. It's not like people can play their "favs" when the whole Stern row is only a few years old if that at the worst..Williams stuff does well but only the AAA titles or super popular stuff like Dr. Who.
I am not denying Wizard of Oz is pretty, it's eye catching and especially striking with the LCD. However, a lot of the animations look like a redemption game (not speaking about the movie stuff) and the game is essentially there to get people that are not into pinball to actually enjoy it.
Again, I know some people like the game and some people don't; to each his own, but the general consensus is basically what I said; pretty but not a great title in terms of longevity for playability.
Quoted from DreamTR:You seem to forget JJP pinball exists because they didn't like the way the Stern model was. Somehow this is better? They are essentially bankrolling an item based on pre-orders. I still don't get how easily this slips everyone's mind. Stern takes a bath if the games don't sell. JJP is relying on everyone else.
Not being ready is besides the point. Be thankful there are code updates. Many of the Stern games now rival or beat a lot of the Williams stuff out there.
Wizard of Oz under no circumstances is even in the same breath playability wise as a lot of games these days. It looks great but it is all eye candy. People have different tastes in pins, I understand that, however we run 80+ machines here and Wizard of Oz is probably in the bottom 10 in games played here, and it's on a prominent row. We have had more negative things said about that game than any of our other games. Maybe for some reason you think it is a good way to do business. If so I have a limited edition Ghostbusters pinball coming out in 2017. I require $8500 for this machine and the price will go up accordingly. I do take payments. However what protects you from me taking your money with statutes of limitations of a couple of years? I mean, eventually you'll get your pin, but only when I feel like it after my vacations.
How can anyone be so trustworthy with anyone who has not even completely finished one pin, and is taking pre-orders for another?????? Concentrate on the one game to be up to par and get everything finished, then announce other games..this is not the first company to do this either, and everyone seems to be ok with it still I suppose.
80+ pinball machines? Or are there other things like vids and redemption games?
Quoted from DreamTR:I don't do redemption. We have around 70 or so video and 80+ pins at the location. I would put more but I ran out of room at the spot.
Thank you for not doing redemption! Those things drive me crazy.....especially as a parent. It is like training the kids for slot machines later in life
Quoted from iamabearsfan:Thank you for not doing redemption! Those things drive me crazy.....especially as a parent. It is like training the kids for slot machines later in life
It isn't good business to "not" do redemption, but I have it situated just enough so I can make a living and we have a great place to go for the community.
Quoted from Chippewa-Pin:Yet another thread that turned into WOZ bashing when the topic isn't related. It's about the Austrailians getting their pins folks. Go to the 'Why do people hate WOZ' thread.
No different from all the people bashing everyone in the marketplace and it turning into a trollfest and price police convention.
Quoted from DreamTR:We're not a pinball arcade. We're a classic arcade with around 150 arcade and pinball games for a free play rate as well a console game store and console gaming area for fighting games and tournaments. (I have 3 locations, this is one of them)
Remember, we have new Stern machines; those do well. It's not like people can play their "favs" when the whole Stern row is only a few years old if that at the worst..Williams stuff does well but only the AAA titles or super popular stuff like Dr. Who.
I am not denying Wizard of Oz is pretty, it's eye catching and especially striking with the LCD. However, a lot of the animations look like a redemption game (not speaking about the movie stuff) and the game is essentially there to get people that are not into pinball to actually enjoy it.
Again, I know some people like the game and some people don't; to each his own, but the general consensus is basically what I said; pretty but not a great title in terms of longevity for playability.
Am I right in saying that WOZ is not on your list of machines and no pictures of it on your website ?
Quoted from Chippewa-Pin:Yet another thread that turned into WOZ bashing when the topic isn't related. It's about the Austrailians getting their pins folks. Go to the 'Why do people hate WOZ' thread.
It took 4 pages to question how long Jack thinks is a few weeks.
Quoted from DreamTR:I don't do redemption. We have around 70 or so video and 80+ pins at the location. I would put more but I ran out of room at the spot.
Ugh... finally i get to post "wish you were closer" and actually mean it
Damn, I was in Nashville last week for 5 days (lacrosse tournament) and didn't find you 
. Had some damn good BBQ though.... even though it wasn't Memphis
Quoted from Playerone:Please provide promised photo's of machines being built Jack. This will only take 15mins out of your day but go a long way in restoring confidence in your company.
Please stfu! Ask him. Pull your panties off and quit whining
And pop a top down under and plow a few Fosters down!
Quoted from iceman44:Please stfu! Ask him. Pull your panties off and quit whining
And pop a top down under and plow a few Fosters down!
Dude.... You're in a bad mood today.... Is the UPS guy late delivering this weeks replacement LEDs boards or something??
Jack actually promised photos of the games on the line here on pinside- so - not a crazy request.
Chill, play a (working) pinball machine and enjoy the long weekend!
Quoted from iceman44:Please stfu! Ask him. Pull your panties off and quit whining
And pop a top down under and plow a few Fosters down!
No one drinks Fosters mate. Young Henry's. Certainly not Fosters. Foster is about as tasteful as your comments.
Quoted from iceman44:Please stfu! Ask him. Pull your panties off and quit whining
And pop a top down under and plow a few Fosters down!
Aussies don't drink that swill, they send that nasty horse piss over here.
Panties sold separately.
Quoted from iceman44:Please stfu! Ask him. Pull your panties off and quit whining
And pop a top down under and plow a few Fosters down!
He did ask nicely so not an unreasonable request.
As for Fosters, we use that to clean our drains.
Quoted from iceman44:Please stfu! Ask him. Pull your panties off and quit whining
And pop a top down under and plow a few Fosters down!
Seems like the OP is making a reasonable request. JJP said they would be shipping games in a few weeks. So the photos should be well and truly available by now. Not a difficult thing to provide. Click the button a few times and upload. Why is it you've got such an issue with JJP being expected to meet a scheduled that they proposed?
Quoted from JerseyJack:We are building and shipping what we were paid for. We are here, not going anywhere either. There are 55 games going to Australia in a few weeks - 22 of them are the paid for "Bumper games"
Quoted from JerseyJack:We will post picture of the games being built in process too - remember - pictures or it didn't happen.
Quoted from labnip:Nib, HUO, or routed ?
Routed and the elastic is so stretched out The BVD label spells out boulevard.
Maybe Jack uses a film camera? He might have to take the film to the drug store for developing.
This would explain why we haven't seen his promised photos!
Or then again, maybe he just makes so many broken promises it just doesn't matter to him anymore.
Who knows?
Quoted from lowepg:Ugh... finally i get to post "wish you were closer" and actually mean it
Damn, I was in Nashville last week for 5 days (lacrosse tournament) and didn't find you
lol, we have two locations in Nashville. Just google "pinball in Nashville" and I am sure we show up... =P
Quoted from jungle:Am I right in saying that WOZ is not on your list of machines and no pictures of it on your website ?
I do not own a Wizard of Oz but we do have pictures of it on our Facebook though. It is at our location currently generously on loan from someone else.
Quoted from DreamTR:lol, we have two locations in Nashville. Just google "pinball in Nashville" and I am sure we show up... =P
I see that. damnit. Unfortunately, we literally had ZERO downtime during the trip. However, we DID take an ill-advised riverboat tour that cost my 3 hours of my life I'll never get back. THAT would have been far better time spent playing pinball!
Quoted from DreamTR:I do not own a Wizard of Oz but we do have pictures of it on our Facebook though. It is at our location currently generously on loan from someone else.
I am toying with dipping my toe in the water as an operator ( only JJP machines by the way ) in the UK. I just wondered if you could give me some idea of the financial arrangement with the WOZ owner ? Is he solely on a percentage of takings ?
Quoted from iceman44:Please stfu! Ask him. Pull your panties off and quit whining
And pop a top down under and plow a few Fosters down!
take it easy, he asked pretty nicely.
and i prefer a hop hog to that fosters cats piss. best beer in australia.
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New Westminster, BC
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