I have thus far not received any evidence supporting the claims made. Why anyone would open a Pinside account just to spread a vague rumor is beyond me. What is there to gain from posting that?

And this is not just about this JJP situation. I'm just getting tired of non-substantiated rumor spreading here on Pinside. This hurts manufacturers and indirectly that hurts pinball. Yes, of course there is room for discussion and room for the truth here on Pinside (us not having closed this thread is clear evidence of that), but I will not have the site be used as an outlet for people with hidden agenda's.

Hmmmmm....... So another week for the "finishing touches". Then two months for the games to be built at that rate. Essentially Jack is buying himself another 2+ months to ship these games.

Doesn't seem like he's really that keen to fix up the OZ WOZ mess, does it? If he was truly keen, he would make all the games ASAP, and not in dribs and drabs spread over a few weeks (obviously he needs the cash flow from later games to cover the cost of making the OZ WOZ). In which case, if a dizzy pops up and wants ten standard games then the OZ games will get bumped again...

Suggest you ask Jack for photos every week of finished games in boxes with serial numbers and shipping to Aus. Make sure the boxes are sealed and not just empty...

(Robin this post is not agenda driven, it is a commercial test of a supplier's genuine commitment to supply.)

November is not far away.
Well done if can do it Jack.

22 machines by 2015 maybe

Or, and this seems more likely to me, he will work them into production with the orders he already has on the line.

How is that different to my comments, JJP will ONLY make the games alongside others due to the constraints already evident on the business?

Show me one of your posts where you've added value to what playerone is getting accomplished. The fact that you had to say it's not agenda driven says it all. If you want to help your fellow countrymen, do them a favor and close your laptop. You are simply an instigator who just continuously wants to stir the pot.

Maybe you should play the ball instead. I note you could not and did not rebut my points. Given Jack's many missed ship dates, would you act differently to what I suggested above?

Thanks Robin.

I'm surprised that he wasn't banned.

Noodlebox, 47 posts in this thread already. I'm really curious, why are you here? Do you even play pinball? And why do you act like you know everything about this? You are seemingly tirelessly haunting all the JJP threads and openly speculating in them about anything that could possibly be speculated about. You say you were some bigshot at Bumper with many "sources" in the industry, but it's all rumor with little evidence to back it up. And I have seen you contributing little else to this forum but negativity about JJP and/or Bumper. What are you trying to accomplish? And in what way are your posts helping the Aussies get their games back?

That's good news. It's going slowly but at least the train is moving.

That's also good news. Finally *some* relief for the Aussie WOZ buyers and the ability to play the heck out of that game.

I think there should be a few Holidays for some members in this thread

You tell em Robin!!! though it is fun to read crazy peoples comments and laugh at em

I received 2 LE's yesterday in Texas. JJP may have got off to a slow start, but it is definitely worth the wait. They undoubtedly the best pinball machine ever made. The build quality is light years ahead of Stern.

The build quality is the best I've seen - JJP really delivers in this respect. I know Hobbit will be great as well and as the factory is finally up to speed I don't think the wait time will be any near 3 years. The one fault I've found in WOZ is a too crowded upper playfield for my tastes and I hope Hobbit will clean that up a bit. I'm just a little old for the Hobbit theme. My WOZLE is still on order and I skipped Hobbit but I look forwards to the 3rd JJP theme.

To: Robin and Player one, I'm just a collector and have no ties to anybody involved in all of this. I've been to JJP twice so far, there is no way jack and his company are scammers. His factory is real,the games are real. This past show at JJP Two weekends ago I was there,Jack has his Shit together. At 8am in the morning he had many employees at booths waiting to go. There were many games being built, there were many boxed games ready to go out the loading dock doors. If this is all for looks, then Jack is in the wrong business, he should open a movie studio in Hollywood, because that was the best MOVIE SET Ive ever seen.I do have evidence to back up my words, if either of you would like I have the pictures to prove all of what I'm saying. Although I'm sure you've all seen Todd's TNT Videos.

Well said, Lets hope this all gets over the finish line & done.

I don't understand how building your machines wouldn't provide cash flow. Jack stated in his first response to this thread that they had the $120k sitting in an account to the side. They should get paid for every game they build, in fact there's really no reason they couldn't build all 22 right now, it would provide them with $120k influx of cash. Those are just my observations from what people have stated in this thread.

I'm not sure how JJP builds games, but in my own business we collect a deposit and then book a date for installation. If some customer was to contract me tomorrow to install 22 boilers and wanted me to start Monday I couldn't do it. I would need time to order materials, get deliveries, not to mention labor, I don't have access to skilled employees that can do that work, which means I have to use the labor I have in place. It would be much easier for me to start installing the boilers in a week from now, and if I were to do two a week I could do it at relatively little or no extra expense to my bottom line. I'm sure jack has orders in place that he is already obligated to. Until the legalities are worked out JJP can't take the risk of the legal ramifications. As long as he has that money in some kind of escrow account I would think he's protected pretty well.

These machines were supposed to be shipped at the time of release, so he has had plenty of time. When bumper went bankrupt JJP did nothing and stopped production even though he had $120000

How many YEARS in advance do you generally need to collect that deposit?

lol- not a great analogy I'm afraid.

Sure it is, if he had to design and build the boilers from scratch.

If in fact that is true that is exactly what I would have done.
The money ends up tied up for years.
Why make something when you might be ordered to return the money afterwards?

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Unfortunately he didn't actually say he had put the money in a bank account to the side. He said that he received legal advice to place the money in an account with the State of New Jersey and have the rightful owners come and claim it.

Whether or not that happened wasn't clarified.

That obviously did not happen.

Wait...so the Aussies gave pinball a heart attack???

That doesn't apply, when jack announced he was taking deposits everyone that jumped in from day one knew there was no game built yet. The time it took to actually build one was unforeseen. I'm glad your so smart that you can lol at my words.

What do you think he was SUPPOSED to do? Ship machines to a non-existent Bumper?

No not at all, but once he was contacted by the bumper woz group he could of answered there questions and made some arrangements before it came to publicly calling him out on pinside........he has had plenty of opportunity and time to set this thing right.

and further more he ship 5 machines to Australia that had paid at bumper cause my mate from Perth got one and had to go to extreme measures to make sure it arrived in Perth.......... he was one of the lucky ones.

Im glad as well.

But seriously, your example was a ridiculous one.... re-read it, you may lol at yourself upon review.

Is that an actual legal entity? No, of course it isn't. As I've said before, the best course of action for JJP is to do NOTHING AT ALL until ordered to do so by the courts.

And what if that never happens?

JJP just gets to keep the $120k?

1) It will happen

2) That money should have been in escrow anyway... JJP never should have had access to it until machines were received by bumper. The Aussie courts apparently don't want that money back as a part of the dissolution of Bumper... US courts would make securing those assets a priority.

Are you sure? And what jurisdiction will it come from? Australia? U.S? If the U.S., how will people from Australia be able to represent themselves over here?

2) That money should have been in escrow anyway... JJP never should have had access to it until machines were received by bumper.

Wrong. The entire JJP pre-order model is based on the ability to use those funds to develop and build pins. Each and every dollar that comes in isn't earmarked.

That's like saying that JJP must put all the money they received from Automated Services in an escrow account until the machines were received by Automated.

The Aussie courts apparently don't want that money back as a part of the dissolution of Bumper... US courts would make securing those assets a priority.

Again, how are people from Australia going to represent their claims here in the U.S? Of course it's possible, but not at all practical. Who is going to pay the attorney's fees?

Ha ha you give me thumbs down cause you got shot down with your nonsense and not knowing what you are talking about......... lol

Listen to RobT and his reasoning you might learn a thing or two!

Please re-read. I said *should*.

As far as jurisdiction, I'll defer to some of the attorneys here, but that shouldn't be terribly difficult or expensive.

I didn't give anyone a thumbs down.

Your deferring to one now.

interesting why does your picture appear in the thumbs down column when you hit the bumper icon.

Eh, may have done it before morning coffee. I have no recollection of it.

It's a very difficult situation for all involved, and yes, that includes JJP.

As far as jurisdiction, yes, it is expensive if a court case is filed in the U.S. since it would require people from Australia to fly to the U.S. to represent their interests and/or hire an attorney.

I definitely do not have all the answers to this one by a long shot. It's a mess. That's why I hope that they are able to work this all out informally as they apparently are trying to do.

I was involved in a case on the other side of the country. I got a recommendation for an attorney out there, and hired him to represent me. I didn't have to leave my hometown to do it. Is there some reason that this case would be different?

The very fact that it would require people from Australia to hire an attorney in the U.S. is exactly the point. It's going to cost them money. JJP isn't going to have to pay their attorney fees!

It isn't a complicated legal issue, and if the court case was in Australia people could represent themselves (no need for an attorney). You show up with your receipt/cancelled check as your evidence and you testify that you never got a pin.

Of course you will also need someone to testify that Bumper sent the money to JJP.

Anyway....I feel like I'm starting to ramble now.

Apparently, the laws are markedly different in Australia than here in the US. Here you couldn't show up with a receipt from one company and request another company to provide you with the goods and/or services noted on that receipt even if you had someone testify that the funds were a direct pass-through. (That is in and of itself, potentially tricky and time-consuming unless the checks were directly deposited into the JJP account).

There is a situation here (nothing to do with pinball) where all parties are in agreement as to what the right course of action needs to be including the numbers and concessions. In order to reach the desired end, a number of steps have to occur. There are several entities outside of this agreement that play a role in several of these steps. Any deviation would result in one or more of the parties getting the short end of the stick. It is a rather delicate and time-consuming dance to protect all parties through the process. I cite this as an example of a situation where everyone wants the same thing; however, it can be difficult getting there in a way that satisfies legal requirements and protects all parties. Perhaps this is the case here. I sure hope it is although it really sucks for everyone involved.

I really can't see the problem here
Bumper sold the business before liquidating to Robert Farrells new Bumper Amusements.
Liquidator Confirms this and is the reason they are not after that asset as it was part of the sale of the assets to the New Bumper Amusements.

Bumper Amusements confirms they took over the responsibility however as they were caught out not having the money to pay for the games when they were ready to ship and they had already spent that money and they could not continue to commit fraud any longer, as they were not going to get anymore games to keep selling, they handed it all back to Jack to sort out and wiped their hands of it.

Also there is a document releasing Jack from Bumper Amusements from any Further Claims signed by Robert Farrell and the Liquidator and the former Directors of the Liquidated Company.

So Nobody is coming after Jack, But Instructed By Bumper for Jack to take over the orders and make good with the customers, even collect any balances and supply all the games.

However there is too much of a shortfall to make everyone whole, so the 22 games or the value of the 22 games at least will get these customers some sort of satisfaction

So that is exactly what should be done, I can upload all these documents if it gets this sorted out quicker.

Bumper the legal entity has already instructed Jack to Deal Direct with the Customers when they handed it all back to Jack to sort out.

We acted to get everyone together to agree to what to do with the 22 games as a group, that was 11 months ago.

So Build and send the 22 Games here as requested by the customers and get this chapter closed.

Bumper Action Amusements. Depositor Circular (2).pdfBumper Action Amusements. Depositor Circular (2).pdfimg002 (1).jpg