Makes good sense. There was a time when I had empathy for him too.

He's dead to me now*

* JK at least until the Aussie's are taken care he is tho

i have an thread with 6 pages builded up so fast its unbelievable.. 1 word of advice dont throw in an paypal link at all cost they will rip u apart..ill repeat APART do u understand

As long as JJP keeps lying to its customers...

you got that right.. Gary is as old as my own old man, he could be my father actually.

makes me think that his ICT capabilities are not so good as my own father, i did have to teach my dad how to turn on his computer and how to work with it.. and he is catching up now thou.. i can imagine that Gary is like that in an way..
apart of that, there is this phrase

Speech is silver, silence is golden.

And Gary understands that..

Still find it funny people flip out when you have to pre-pay to fund NES homebrews but people don't bat an eyelash about pinball, don't see how good they had it with Stern and are ok handing over $7000+ for pins not even available that will be delayed years.

Wow.

And yes, this does have an effect, I want Hobbit, I want Hobbit bad. Wizard of Oz was subpar to me, but the theme on Hobbit will save it IMO, but I can't purchase a game like this knowing I may not even get the thing for years...

Some people likely feel the same way about Stern.... Regardless of a persons attitude it has no impact on the respective companies business model, day to day operations and well being.

The old saying "You never get a 2nd chance to make a 1st impression " comes to mind and fits JJP to a "T".
If the business does fail its their own fault and not any paying customers or "haters".

I actually hope they learned something from the horrible launch and apply it to future endeavors, if not stick a fork in them because they are done.

Given the history of Stern's pricing since JJP started building games I would expect them to price it at $6500 minimum. At that price it might not eat into Hobbit as much as people might think. Most WOZ owners are very happy with their games and are looking forward to the next JJP game.

Despite the fact that many people who post on pinside are not happy about the Aussie situation the majority of people in the pinball world are not affected by it and they will not change their buying habits over it. They will buy the game that gives them the most bang for their buck regardless of who makes it.

Eventually someone else will come along and piss off the whole pinball community to take over the spot as #1 bad guy. Wayne has been there, Gary has been there many times and Jack will probably be there again too. Its not a "lifetime appointment" position.

I just don't think Jack did the "stiffing"....Just my opinion.

maybe not........ but he hasn't helped the cause with all his fake promises and the way he has conducted himself, remember this has been going on for more then a year and JJP could of fixed it a long time ago.......... he has played a big part in this disgusting mess.

He sure didn't do the initial "stiffing" by any means, but he doesn't help matters when he's been sitting on these people's $120k, then he comes on here and says that he should just donate it to charity since he doesn't know who should get it.

100 million % correct !

stop taking it out of context and go back and read it...

No. You go back and read it.

Yep and I think the financial downfall from this is going to sting a little. If 5-10 people cancel the hobbit, then that's a little sting. If JJPs actions cost him a 100 orders, then maybe that's the kick in the ass he needs.

Re-read it all you want as it's the stupidest thing I've read from a company spokesperson in ages. Just did not need to be said in any context

Looks like he will come through. With MM r locked in he should make the working Capitol he needs from those sales. MMr probably saved JJP ; )
As far as context whysnow it's not relevant any more. It's just one lie or total reversal of everything he says and it's proved over and over again. That what we all know now. The five of you want to hang on to this delusion so be it. At least almost everyone else knows now.

Yep totall agree. Two different worlds and let's be honest it's typically a LOT more expensive in the pin hobby. What do you front in the vintage video game homebrew/repro market, $100 max??

I've thought about doing a pre-pay for the CIB of Socks and I just can't bring myself to ask people to pay for something that isn't ready.

To each their own I guess...

A week should be ample time for him to talk to his lawyers and get the requirements together. If he already got legal advice it should be fairly simple to update you in a week

thanks for keeping us updated. I think a week is more then fair, your were quick on your end, now he needs to be quick on his. Unfortunately from past experiences, I have a feeling that isn't gonna happen.

keep this public and you have your leverage. why this thread should have been locked by some is really a head scratcher for me.

leverage.png

A week? Lawyers? LOL.

Looking to put down a deposit on whatever JJP does after the hobbit...this the right place?

Hey you fellas in the USA, we want to reexport a failed import from Noo York, you guys got room for one more?

Well a week for Jack to continue contact with them or at least update them on progress.

those machines are never going to come to Australia....too much bulls***t and too many lies have happened. JJP couldnt lie straight in bed.

I don't see anything happening in a week with lawyers state side. Not in my experience.

Either way, status and communication is king.

I personally think Jack is going to send out a shitload of games in a short period and this whole thing is going to be put to rest.

As it relates to the pre-pay model? WoZ/TH probably would have never happened without it. Capital for this kind of stuff simply doesn't exist. Sad but true. I for one am ok with it. Moving from a distributor to a manufacturer of arguably one of the most complex pinball machines to ever be built has proven to be a huge challenge for Jack.

I have said it once and I will say it again, supply chain issues can plague any manufacturer. Especially a startup that has not done this before. It is not like he is building a can opener that has 4 or 5 suppliers. He is building a pinball machine! We all know the thousands of parts that need to designed, tested, ordered, delivered, inventoried, re-ordered, etc... This is all new for JJP.

What has haunted Jack was underestimating his suppliers and passing that optimism onto his customers. I work in IT. I take what the programmers tell me it is going to take and multiply it by 3. I do that now because of the experience I have had in that field. I am sure the next time around Jack will not be so optimistic with his estimates.

What Jack does need to improve on is his communication. Even to this hostile group. In my mind it is better to be transparent and communicate what your bottle necks are. Remember folks, he has a bunch of guns working for him. If they were in trouble, those guys would be out of there in a heart beat. To the best of my knowledge only one key guy has left and that kind of turnover should be expected.

Jack.....please get this last batch of LE's out. Otherwise I will be eating these words big time!!!

On another note. This is pinball guys. A hobby. A place where people have a beer and talk about how cool machines are and toys and high scores. All of that perspective has been lost. The spirit of JJP was to make a great machine and I think they and Stern are now going to innovate more than ever.

Let's keep pinball fun!

He still owes a container of Woz Au and now another 22 wozle........delivered by Xmas and not all sold until Xmas 2015

Hmmm.... maybe this is why it's taking so long to produce the games. Guns don't have any arms, so it would be hard for them to assemble a game. Perhaps someone should photoshop some guns working on the assembly line, this would be hillarious.

Or maybe he does not have the cash flow to pay his suppliers or pays net 90 instead of net 30 who knows. Lots of things could be the issue. I think JJP gets more support from the pinball community if he's open about all of this.

Overestimating his own abilities to pull a complex product together.
Overestimating the cost savings from being a manufacturer of other games.
Overestimating his own charm and goodwill.

Underestimating the time frame.
Underestimating the potential for delays through flawed early design, underspecification of parts and suppliers refusing to supply through not being paid.
Underestimating the rising costs due to these delays.
Underestimating the frustration and anger people can develop for misdirection, obfuscation and outright BS.
Underestimating the powers that frustrated Aussies have for recovering their money or their games.

5 to 3 against. Jack can't win.

Eliminate the last two underestimations, and we still have charm, confidence and expectations up against planning, planning and planning.

Seems the 7 Ps of Success were ignored :

Proper
Prior
Planning
Prevents
P*ss
Poor
Performance!

I think the biggest problem is honesty. If honest answers could be given to concerns, that would satisfy people. They might not like the answers, but its 100% better than being lied to or strung along. I've stopped going to many businesses I felt were not being totally honest with me. Sometimes the drive is further and its more hassle, but I would feel even worse giving business to someone who didn't respect that I am the customer.

That is the main reason he gets ragged on in these threads. If he would just come on here and say, look we are experiencing money problems at the current time, but rest assured you will receive your game. Or if he would give an accurate time frame of when games will be completed instead of time frames that are impossible to meet.

Yes there is no doubt that people will bail if he was honest, but there is also people who would respect the honesty and hang on a little while longer. This also would leave a good impression on future customers who can see that he is honest and speaks the truth, so it may work out positive in the long run. At this point he HAS to start doing this. If he keeps breaking promises and BSing, he is gonna BS himself out of the industry. It is obvious at this point that there is major issues going on behind the scenes, but unless he comes out and reveals them, all we can do is speculate.

He probably has anywhere from 300-500 of the MMr orders so just his profit on that will pay for what he needs to finish his orders. Timing is perfect. I bet we see games start rolling out in a few weeks now that cash is pouring in.

Overestimating the support and goodwill from the pinball community when starting a new Pinball Company.

Go back and read some of the threads on here when he was just starting out. People were pouring praise all over him in spades. Sometimes you had to wade through the love fest on here just to get to other threads. He had everyone's support and respect. 3 years later that has all been turned around. By his lack of communication, missed time frames ect.

It may work out positive in the long run... but what I would expect in the short run would be a fair fraction of Hobbit preorders cancelled, with requests for refunds. And he would have to survive the short run first...

Maybe, but why not just say the obvious. We are working on the WOZLE in combination with the standards. We rely on a balance of positive cash flow and new orders to keep day to day operations moving and apologize for unforeseen delays in the production. I assure you that those that Pre ordered both the Hobbit and Woz will be first in line for the Hobbit.

- This would win some of those who waited forever over as the reward would be first in line for The Hobbit.

No way! All pinballers want/wanted him to succeed. Even when playerone first came on and described the situation people were defending jack. People love WOZ and want to play it/own it. The problem is the truth. Just be truthful about the situation, delivery dates. I don't think the truth would cause people to cancel orders. I think the unknown that comes with half truths, speculation, and broken promises would scare more people away than just a straight answer.

What's the time limit on this, Ted? How long does he need to be in business before he is out from under that umbrella? 3 years is clearly not enough time. 4? A decade? Or just long enough to invent another excuse? Could you let us know, please?

yeah jjp sure lacked support when the pinball community fronted him 6.5 million dollars interest free for years to get his company up and going. what nonsense, seriously. jjp spent all the goodwill capital he had with his poor record on deadlines, missed dates and false promises to name a few. good grief.

The problem boils down to Jack's mouth being attached to a salesman!

Soft deadlines are always tentative. Even the WOZ 4.0 update is still being tested and not out yet, after Keith, not Jack, said "Barring any severe complications, I would imagine the end of the week at the latest for this" on July 1st. Maybe it's contagious?

A wise man once said "To spot the expert, pick the one who predicts the job will take the longest and cost the most."

Exactly! JJP needs to hire a president that runs companies and Jack should stick to sales.

fixed.

And then maybe investors would not have backed out.

That really is pretty funny.....

If anything JJP has gotten a HUGE pass in most cases for missing their own promised deadlines & delivery for YEARS. Name any business that can miss sales & delivery by that margin and still remain in business ?
( except government )

It IS a business #1 and not a charity or doing goodwill for pinheads.
Public support and cash is what got JJP off the ground & goodwill lasts longer if not stretched out over years.

OMG NOW THAT'S FUNNY

You're right...he's a bad guy, running a crooked business just looking to screw pinball fans. Silly me. I hope he goes out of business soon.

Yeah, Stern has terrible communication...I hope they go out of business too.

Anybody out there you guys support? Jpop, Skitsters?....they ARE slow....