I should ask for my money right away. I am really worried!

IMO, and it is a sad one. After lawyers and time spent the 79 effected in this will be lucky to see 25% of their money back. 79 ppl invest and Jack is holding 120k. Thats 1,518.98 per person on average, some more some less. Jack should come out with an apology for putting his foot in his mouth claiming he could do something that he obviously could not do after talking to a lawyer. I know when I make a mistake I apologize and explain how I messed up. Embarrassing...yes but you live and you learn. As a buyer there are risks and rewards. This is a perfect example of risk. Hope it all ends better than what I think.

If Bumper did not go under you guys would be waiting for your games just like everyone else. But now having to deal with this just sucks.

Hah! After reading all this stuff i think Gary has the right idea and just not communicate with anyone in a public forum.

From interviews I've read with Steve Ritchie.....I don't think Gary understands the internet at all.

gary doesn't need to talk, his actions/production speaks for him.

Have to agree. I don't ever recall anything close to this happening with Stern. The biggest gripe people have with Stern is code updates which have always happened in the long run. Stern have a very solid distributor here in Australia as well whom I can't say a bad word about after numerous dealings with them. I spose you can't beat knowing who's who in the pinball market and experience.

Looks like a step forward at the very least for the WOZ group. All the best guys.

I applaud you Playerone for the very objective, reasoned & constrained manner in which you have handled this matter. You have also endured a number of unfair & provocative posts which for me were without foundation. It was totally appropriate for you to use this site to air your concerns not only for yourself but in the interests of all Pinsiders. I trust that in time you and your fellow purchasers will achieve the result you are looking for & deserve.

Gary doesn't have to come explain himself or why he is not delivering. If holding someone to their word is too much to ask, then they should all put up or shut up.

With all that has gone on up to this point 22 games should not be the only concern all pre pay games are in play what happens is still up in the air.

Oh I hope prepay only exists in the form of a refundable small deposit with balance due when games are ready to ship. This other schedule Jjp and others use is broken and needs to die as all it does it put t us as consumers at risk.

I cancelled mine. The risk is $ 500.00

Pre orders were at $7500.00 now list is $8000.00 if JJP makes the game.

Knowing the way JJP works if you want it sooner you should wait and pay the $8K as I'm sure those who preordered

Good luck with getting things settled Scott. Seems like you're nearly there.

Bumper on the other hand has disappeared

IMG_1202.jpg

the lights are still on

I cancelled my WOZLE order this week and transferred all the money ($7,500) to my pre-ordered MMR. I could not give JJP over $15,000 with their current issues. Not able to make WOZLE at a reasonable rate after one year, and missing delivery dates after delivery date.

And that is the rub. With the exception of a very few LE pins, it is always possible to pick up a game cheaper in the future. Benefits are that you get a game straight away and in Stern's case, can wait until the code is updated. This is certainly my plan going forward.

Just wait till the home market is flooded.... you'll be able to get a good price then

care to say if you got your refund right away or is there a time period when you are to get it?

He said he transferred it to the MMr payment!

It was not a refund, used the WOZLE money to pay for the MMR.
Last week, I received an email from JJP for the remaining $6,995 on the MMR.

Respond and say you decided to give the money to charity, but you still want your pin

the best answer ever

Another WOZLE game shipped!

The expression 'couldn't lie straight in bed' comes to mind.

But nowone is home!!!

Broke lease midnight run over to Cashbox Amusements Building at 380 Barkly Street Footscray
Seems Cashbox Amusements is the new Bumper Action Amusements

Cashbox got the boot as a Distributor for Stern so seems like a good decision by AMD maybe they knew they were to become the new Bumper?

Is that Bumper 4 I have lost count?

Notice they haven't paid their phone bill either disconnected due to lack of payment.

Not quite Wayne. Paul H the shadow man has apparently picked over the carcass and taken what he wants. Cashbox will not be becoming the new Bumper, Bumper may instead be paying a debt handing over remaining machines.

And evidently Farrell's US connection has suddenly come to her senses, so perhaps that bolt hole has been closed and Farrell will need to be deported instead. Watch this space.

Seems the Bumper Staff are being ordered around by Leo at Cashbox in Footscray, maybe they are unemployed but just don't know it yet?

Maybe Paul H needs the money for Howard or Stuart Cook at Zambreo's

Great Update Noodlebox your d man

Just wait for Stern to announce and release LOTR vault edition prior to TH shipping.
That will suck up any remaining hobbit preorders and be a huge blow to JJP.

Seems like Gary is in the drivers seat here and may have the power to really disrupt JJPs future - <edited>

_{Post edited by moderator: No personal attacks please.}

Well you would think Stern would be all over this with a new display, but rumor is 2 games out until we see it.

Great idea. Wish ill for a Pinball company....

Where did I wish ill for anyone?
I am just being realistic.

You don't think a LOTR Vault Edition would eat into Hobbit (pre)sales?
All I'm saying is that Gary potentially has the power to disrupt JJP if he decides to go the cutthroat route.
Given the history between them, I wouldn't entirely rule out the possibility.

Why not is that new company is not run properly or treats customers poorly. I do not want to go back and fourth and I am starting a bit of trouble, but I do not think Jack or JJP should get a pass on this.

I also do not buy the any argument pro or against JJP being good or bad for pinball. I can argue that WOZ being built is great, but counter argue that all WOZ and JJP made was a massive price increase across the board to everyone.

So I'm standing on neutral and really hoping the Australia group get what is owed to them and if they do not I'm okay with JJP closing shop

Sorry. It just sounded negative.

Stern just needs to worry about Stern. I'd like to see some innovation from them in the next machine.

Mustang was a disappointment (and I'm a damn mustang enthusiast/owner!)

Right now they are building remakes (their own and PPS's). I'm HOPING this breathing room will buy them the time to put out something great. WoZ wasn't my cup of tea and JJP is a complete trainwreck (as a business), but at least they pushed the envelope.

Stern doesn't NEED to do anything *Revolutionary*, but I'd like to see a little Evolution.

I wish we could go back to the good ole days of just Stern. All the companies making pinball machines are screwing things up.

Ok, so let's wish every pin company that does something we don't like goes out of business....

Or not start up a business - Vonnie D with those shenanigans

I like the options, but hate the stupid prepay model. I'd rather that went away. There are some awesome companies out there like Heighway, Skit-B, Dutch Pinball and of course I love what Spooky is bringing to the table.

Between JJP, JPOP and Dutch pinball I hope the prepay crap stops. Dutch Pinball I give a pass as they may deliver on time, but JJP and JPOP are waaaaaaay late with delivery or progress.

prepay is good for inflating prices...

This whole thread has turned into a JJP bashfest. "Friendly" site indeed... barely worth participating in anymore. I am firmly convinced there are several posters in this thread who won't be happy unless JJP is out of business.

I will be ecstatic when my friend gets his game, any kind of resolution occurs regarding the Aussies and folks that paid for Hobbitt have games rolling out. And of course if any normal hic ups along the way occur that folks get an honest answer. Going out of business just screws everyone.
Hoping the bashfest kicks JJP in the right direction. Everyone needs an asskicking once in their lives and hopefully it sets things moving forward.

Uh yeah and rightfully so...

I want JJP to succeed. It's better for us all. However, this issue has been handled EXTREMELY poorly. How can anyone deny that?

Some people just want to give him pass after pass, the Aussie's have been completely screwed, albeit not directly by JJP, more so indirectly but Jack has made many promises and has not only not kept them, but he seems oblivious to the fact of how ridiculous this situation and his actions are. Why would people just sit back and not say anything? Swing from JJP's nuts all you want, they deserve any "bashing" they get on this subject. There are plenty of positive threads here, much more so than negative ones. This is a great site with many helpful and friendly people.

All this arguing about pass/no pass is inane.

The only pass or no pass that matters is that of a buyer, or potential buyer.

Legal tender orates, male bovine excrement perambulates.

How many times can we go over the same points?

Doesn't matter who is wishing for what, JJPs fate is in JJPs hands end of story and they need to take responsibility for themselves and their actions.

As for pinside, its awesome, I like a glass or two of reality with my browsing and I say to my kids to wash their hands before meals after playing with reality all day.

Guess what?

You don't have to prepay. You have a choice.

Problem solved.

I respectfully disagree. Jack is monitoring this thread, he has pushed multiple people away with his actions. He has to know at this point he HAS lost sales because of this. This SHOULD push him to:

1. Stick to his words
2. Provide better customer service going forward
3. Realize his pre-payment model is not working
4. Better understand his customer base

These could all be turned into very positive things. I am so glad Playerone was vocal about this. I won't be buying any JJP pins or products in the future until his business model improves drastically. I HAVE purchased from them in the past but I won't going forward until this is fixed because of this issue. You think that doesn't have any effect? Think again...

There is a whole hell of a big difference in "not liking something" and being stiffed for $6-7,000.00.

Come on Ted, you can see the difference.

Very unlikely. Still lots of nice condition HUO and clean LOTR for sale for the same that they would need to sell LOTRve. Unless demand for LOTR magically increases and prices go up anothier 1500 then it does not appear a 5k NIB LOTR will sell all that well.

IMve was able to happen due to the supply/demand of IM.

I didn't say that. I just don't see the point of rehashing it repeatedly.

I'd be surprised if Jack isn't ambivalent about ever starting this company up at this point. If he could have foreseen the cabinet supplier issues, the light board issues, the Bumper fiasco, the other things we know about and who knows what else...

I for one have empathy for the guy. I don't condone his backpedaling, but I can understand it.

The only thing on the horizon that would have me buying a jjp game is Pat L. His games are hit and miss with me, but there's no denying that he knows how to make one hell of a pinball machine. For now I'm scared away.

You are correct and I cancelled my Hobbit Preorder, but JPOP still has my $$ and I'm not thrilled with those delays. I think we all need to wise up and not buy into the prepay model. This way we force these companies to make the games to feed themselves.

Hell with JPOP and JJP preorders probably funded the company. I want Big Lebowski from Dutch pinball, but I'm not pre ordering it because the other companies like JJP and JPOP leave me with bad feelings.

The fact that 200 people still do not have their WOZ LE is pathetic!!! These people helped fund the company.

The fact that the Aussies are being screwed around with is pathetic business practice.

I agree with the bashing as a good kick in the nuts is what is needed to change current bad practice or attitude.

Maybe we can kick Stern in the nuts to get us code quicker. - I do not want to be completely negative on JJP