Don't count on it, everyone is looking to Lebowski.

Remember guys the Paypal Fighting Fund is [email protected]

I donated $1,000 to help the guys and it seems the Legal fees will increase.

Where is Timothy Fraileich when you need him.

Thank god Player one kept pushing this despite the group that kept telling him to be silent and talk offine. They all should all donate to that legal fund!!

By the way guys I just donated a $100. Hoping for resolution soon.

That is absoulutely correct but something you missed also, is that keeping this thread active and at the top of the pinside list also serves as a warning to others about pre ordering anything again and also keeps the squeeze on JJP to actually follow through with what is being said. I would bet if this thread dies down, so does the progress.

Awesome job with the updates in the thread PlayerOne. Keep them coming!

Robin,

You are awesome as this thread should stay open so we can get updates.

Now off to send these guys a donation.

Okay so what's going on with the fighting fund? Can you guys post that information as I will make a contribution.

I just read this cluster of a thread. One thing people may not realize is that when lawyers get involved, and they clearly are, one often has to change direction.

What may have seemed logical a month or two ago, may not be an option because of legal console. This is not a straight forward situation. It is complex with many stakeholders. If you want to call it back pedaling, so be it. It is not uncommon when lawyers get in the mix.

I cannot tell you how many times in business I have had to change direction due to a legal department getting in the way. Sad but true.

I like the direction this is going and hopefully the affected parties can get some kind of payment. I am not a Jack lover either. There are things I would have done differently. But I do like his product and I am still confident he will deliver all of the WoZ's this year. I am also confident that TH will have a much better rollout. The product is just that good. That is what is saving JJP at this point. If it wasn't, there would have been a run on the bank. But there isn't. Their support and product is second to none. Now they have to produce.

looking forward to the day that I see a WOZ on location apart from Timezone... Scotty what you think the chances are that you will eventually have one on location??

email address 4 posts up,
chucked in some cashola myself

My wife and I decided some time ago that when I am done with my degree, I will be purchasing a NIB game. Thanks to this thread, I now know one company that I will absolutely not be purchasing from.
In my opinion, the redaction of a public commitment to the group in Australia to have these machines built is abhorrent no matter the end result. Every cherished opinion I have of small American business and the proper conduction of, I learned from my grandfather and father who owned an auto parts store. I worked there many years as a teenager and into young adulthood. I am proud to say that there was never an occasion where they did not conduct their business with anything but the highest standards and good for their customers. Unfortunately, this store no longer exist and I still have local people tell me how much they miss it. My family name is good and I'm trying to teach my daughter the value in that.
To all of the affected Australians; I hope that everything that is owed to you comes back to you in full. I applaud the tenacity to have things made right.

Agreed.
Kudos to him for being the squeaky wheel on this. Im 100% sure NONE of this current progress would have occurred if they sat and courteously waited for "the right thing to happen"

And, kudos to pinside for providing a medium for The Aussies to get the exposure they needed to force some action & to educate the community on the issue. It should certainly make folks think twice (or three times) about exactly WHJO they are shipping their money off to....

Good luck guys!

you mean >> where are ek77 and lowepg and mrgone when you need them.

WOZ haters should be lining up to donate. Granted they will probably want some clarifiaction on what all dontaions will be used for.

Woz haters? Sigh. Get your insults straight: Ive generally praised WoZ (the game) and criticized JJP (the company).

That aside, this issue should transcend all that. Everyone here should be supportive of fellow pinheads that paid their hard-earned cash for pinball machines and are now fighting for some restitution.

My Guess is Legal Fees, That's what the fund is for, anything left would assist in the shipping and Customs fees etc if they arrive.

Gdm whysnow! How dare you turn this in to something about WOZ. Open your eyes !! Seriously. They built a damn fine machine but JJP haS lied time and time again and gets caught and then gets a pass . We are talking about the core of this company and wether it's honest to its customers. In this case customers who lost a ton of money.
Hate is a strong word but yes I hate the lies!

They can use my donation any way they want or need. If one ripped off guy needs a stripper to feel better than so be it. The least I can do as fellow pinhead . Hopefully the fund helps with legal counsel.

Very well said! You are right, your name means so much to how much business you get. The smallest thing you do to help someone who does business with you can come back in spades and your business will thrive. Or conversely, you can do the opposite and lie to customers, not communicate and do shady business practices and your customers will run, and tell everyone else to do the same.

I am fully in support of them going after the person that ACTUALLY stole their money, Bumper.

I would happily donate to the cause if that is what was actually going on.

Playerone has had a nice change of tone currently but I still stand by the fact that JJP owes noone but the person that paid them, bumper > or the legal entitiy representing the 79 WOZ debitors. I hope for their needed resolution they are able to get their legal ducks in a row and then JJP can safely and legally give them back their cash.

This whole thing is a mess for everyone involved and yet another blow to JJP, but the witch hunt that this started as was never the right way to go about it.

1 month later...

craziness

Yeah but he's JJP so let's just give him another pass, I mean he did make WOZ, well except the LE's of course...

LOL- yes I forgot about that little tidbit.

SOOOO easy to be philanthropically generous with OTHER people's money!

I suspect if the Aussie's want to donate their money to charity they would choose a slightly more appropriate steward/financial advisor than JJP....

Its ludicrous to say that $120,000 should be donated to a children's hospital and do some real good. So instead of getting what they paid for they get to donate $11,000 grand each of their hard earned money to charity. That is not why they gave the money in the first place. Perhaps Jack should donate $11,000 grand to a charity instead of buying that new piece of manufacturing equipment. Imagine the fall out if he ordered $11,000 in LED bulbs and the bulb company turned around and said, "we felt that the $11,000 that you paid us for bulbs is better served to go towards charity" " you won't get your money back and you won't get the bulbs that you paid for, have a nice day"

It really seems that there is two people acting spokesperson for JJP. One is unaware that the other exists. This is the only other logical explanation I can think of for the turn coat quoted earlier about building and shipping the games, and then changing 180 degrees the other way and saying they were not building or shipping the games because "legal" advised them not to.

I think at the end of the day, everyone wants the games to be built, and everyone wants JJP to suceed and for the Aussies to get some kind of retribution from this. It's just how far do we go? When do we stop believing anything that is said anymore?

For me it has been ~1 to 1.5 years at least. Put up or shut up. Pics or it didn't happen will likely be one of the quotes I remember from the year in pinball 2014, along with "90ish days"

At this point I am expecting The Hobbit trickling out a few mostly unfinished proto games at the release of the next movie to be a "victory". Happy to be proven wrong, but looking at past performance....

Funny thing is, the pm JJP is sending to people in this thread states he (Jack/JJP) views the 79 as creditors. So there's that...

I don't think Gary is the kind of guy that would rejoice in 79 pinball enthusiasts being ripped off.

However, the whole incident is certainly ANOTHER black-eye to this concept of 3+ year pre-payment for delivery of a pinball machine.... This whole sad story might not even have taken place had JJP delivered in a timely manner and/or hadnt required buyers to fully pre-pay for machines YEARS before their parts were even ordered...

No, if anything, this should serve as a wake-up call to consumers considering pre-pay AND JJP:

Consumers should realize they are gambling with these pre-pay scenarios and are subject to more future shenanigans.

JJP should take a hard look at their operation as well. Does he want to be a designer and innovator of pinball or does he want to learn how to run a factory. He (seemingly) cant do both well. It would be wonderful if he could pick up the phone and talk to Stern in regards to manufacturing the JJP designs. Seems like that would be a big WIN WIN.... AND we'd likely see TH nearly FULLY shipped by Q12015 and JJP #3 shortly thereafter.

Like Jack's gonna flat out say he should have kept his mouth shut. Of course, when your lawyers say no, no, you need to do this, you do it.

Does anyone still not know that Jack is always wildly optimistic with his time estimates?

Isn't that charity quote out of context? Wasn't he saying he couldn't just send it back, because a court could still decide he needs to do something else with it even after he did? So sending it to charity would have been better? I just went back and looked, and yes, that was it in a nutshell.

He also states the money is in trust with the state. This speculation that he spent it and couldn't send it back if he wanted to is downright libelous.

So geez, can we give it a rest? Enough with the criticism, it isn't accomplishing anything. By all means keep us updated on the Australian front but enough with the hearsay!

Your assumption here is that the holdup w/JJP has been putting it together. I don't think that was the issue. It was two major pieces.....First being supply chain issues and the second being flawed LCD boards. I am not getting the sense that putting the things together has been the bottleneck.

The best thing JJP can do now is finish building the machines and get them out the door. Make good on the Australia issue and produce. As my boss always said to me, Don't confuse activity with production!

No no he didn't. He said he was ADVISED to send it to the State, not a "trust" first of all, he's referring to an escheatment process, and second he does not state he did follow through with that advice either. We can all read between the lines and see he didn't. Well, except for you obviously.

I find it funny he has no problem disregarding that bit of legal advice but when his lawyers advise him not to build the games he listens?!?

Makes sense.

bah

He didn't state that at all.

He says he was advised to do that. Never said that he did.

Edit: MinusWorlds beat me.

Cliff notes

JJP's lawyers advise them to hand $120K over to the State - JJP says no
JJP's lawyers advise them not to spend money building games - JJP says yeah that sounds like good advice

It was with a fluffy pillow, nobody needed to know...

Hmmm big fears is Woz might be JJP's 1st and last pinball..........

1. No money
2. Screwing Aussie's over to buy time
3. Selling standards while owing 200 LE's
4. People cancelling TH orders due to VE and Remakes
5. Bad business ethics
6. Daughters wedding (Aussie money - daughters wedding payment hmmm maybe a slight coincidence )
7. Can't meet a deadline due to what ever reasons

Feel free to add to the list..........

does anyone know who's getting the other 33 games going to Australia and if they've shipped during the last month?

The only thing that perked my ears up recently was when a local guy told me a few weeks back that he had requested a refund for his Hobbit deposit and payments. I can't remember how much it was, but I think he had put about $5000 toward it. He was told it would be 2 weeks to "process" his refund, and he would have it by a certain date. I talked to him about 4 days after the deadline had passed, and he had not heard anything and had not received his money. I thought this was interesting, just because in the past JJP had been very attentive and responsive about refunding money that was asked back. I know at least a few people that got their WOZ money back within a day or two. That was several months and even maybe more than a year back. But things don't appear to be running the same way now.

this is not a good sign.....not good at all. They definitly were prompt in the past in giving refunds. If this is a common trend, I think it will speak for itself

I am not going to give out any names, but I do believe there is someone that is supposed to get a container full of games. They have been going back and forth trying to get some kind of update. Perhaps they are his finally shipping? He also made me aware that he has lots of emails of the back and forth but I haven't seen them

Ballypinball is the Australian distributor that is selling the 250 down under WOZ.

One thing is for sure, after reading this thread and a few others, until JJP gets their stuff together I will not be buying a JJP machine from anyone, this includes all future machines and yes the Hobbit is very interesring to me. But, I cannot support a company who's owner has repeatedly gone back on promises made from day one (over and over).

If Stern behaved the same way there would be a riot on pinside. I can't believe people allow themselves to be treated like this by JJP, especially while paying top dollar for his machines, excuse after BS excuse....wow...

How can I give this post 2 thumbs up??

I got him for you.

Me too.
I find it funny that some people were telling the OP that this thread is a waste of time and that it would do nothing positive. Now it's go ahead and keep this thread alive but don't say anything negative about JJP.

people that lack common sense should invest in this little unit. page 11 sent my unit redlining

Bullshit_Amplifier_Detector.gif

Awesome sent some $ to help out

This is a very complicated case guys. You know, a lotta ins, lotta outs, lotta what-have-you's. And, uh, lotta strands to keep in his head, man. Lotta strands in old Jackster's head.
Luckily he's adhering to a pretty strict, uh, bullshit regimen to keep his mind limber.

Edit! I misunderstood a post, sorry

Well, anyone in their right mind is asking for their TH deposits back. Why?

Because if the company stays in business, you will 100% have a chance to get one later...
And, you may get one sooner than waiting in line anyways
And, you will have a 0% chance of losing your money (and or your sanity)

i think you need to read my post again. i was actually supporting your position.

I'm a little slow, sorry...edited post my bad
Maybe I need less coffee as well! Lol

Just give him a thumbs up on another post like I did. Great synopsis!