Well I think we have about 3 of the 79 on here. I'd recommended starting a petition if Jack does not respond. Can be very easy to put the pressure on in other ways that will get more done and hopefully get these guys a resolution.

All we really want is for these guys to get what they were told they would get.

great!

may be a candle-lit Demonstration in front of the JJP factory

I have lost money in this race, fortunately not as much as some, but still a significant amount.
Facts are deposits were paid to jack, to which he has acknowledged and gone on record as promising 22 machines.
The Op is voicing my frustration as well as the frustration of many others affected.
This is not about anything more than a plee to deliver on what JJP has been paid for ......simple.
Keeping quiet, hoping the machines will one day magically arrive has got nobody nowhere.
For those that think that this is acceptable business practise............withdraw 10K and set fire to it.

I still think you would be better off to start a daily log of events as previously suggested.

Let reality do the talking...
for example
Day 1 > Jack promises pictures of 22 OZ machines being made in a "few weeks"
Day x > been a "few weeks" called JJP, no response
Day x > emailed Jen, told X
Day x > called Jack, did not answer

This will help document the situation and possibly help you. The way you are going about things is NOT helping your cause. Trust me, as a guy that is often very bad at the internet and poor at putting thoughts into text, there are mulitple ways to skin this cat and the vast majority have a much better chance of getting your desired end result compared to what you are currently doing.

Exactly.

JJP doesn't know specifically who is entitled to a pin. I doubt that they have a list of names and addresses of people who paid in full through Bumper. Who are they going to send the pins to if Bumper doesn't exist?

That $130k (or whatever the figure is) needs to be available to an Australian court so they can decide who is entitled to the money.

People hate the idea of lawsuits, but this is a situation where that is exactly what is needed.

There's lots of speculation about who has legal claim to the $130,000 JJP is currently holding. If someone other than JJP has a good legal claim to it, I think JJP would do what you suggest here and punt to an Australian court (or just leaving the money in an account and wait for someone to bring a legal claim), rather than agreeing to make the 22 machines. My uninformed speculation is that JJP and Bumper contracted for the $130,000 to constitute a non-refundable deposit, forfeited when Bumper failed to make payment in full, and that it's now legally JJP's money. Which would in turn free JJP up to use the money in this creative manner, rather than just sitting on it for fear of giving it to the "wrong" people.

From reading this and other threads it sounds like the 79 Bumper pre-order folks are pretty well organized, and someone canvased them and they agreed that they would collectively take delivery of 22 machines, sell them, and issue partial refunds based on some formula. Presumably they picked someone to take delivery and be responsible for the sales, and hopefully they have a plan if they can't sell the machines for their desired price.
[EDIT: playerone describes the decision-making process from his perspective here, implies that JJP may also have wanted to deliver machines rather than providing cash: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/we-want-our-machines-jack-guarnieri#post-1697077]

This all seems very complicated -- I would have voted to request the $130,000 cash back and provide everyone a prompt % refund of their lost payments, rather than taking on the hassle of trying to sell the machines and keep the entire group happy in the meantime. But evidently the group felt it was worth that hassle/risk in order to hopefully increase the total return to the group, and ultimately (if I'm right and this is from a legal perspective a "gift" from JJP to the group) it was their call to make.

I suggested this and is documents everything and also builds a case against JJP if that is ultimately needed.

Also keeps us up to date on this and helps build support from all of us as there is not much negative we can comment on if you are just posting facts. I believe your support for doing this will help get you to your end resolution at a much faster rate.

Wow, I haven't seen a company do so much wrong and piss so many people off but still be supported and defended by so many since the latest mad amusements thread! Maybe Jack should start sending gummies along with the pinball machines. If I was still owed a game at this point, I would even consider taking the machine in a partially finished state at this point. Something is better than nothing right? If the 22 games don't get shipped, it is not because of Playerone, it is because they never were going to be sent anyway. I know jack has made some mistakes before, but come on, just think what that would do for business if he pocketed the money and didn't send the 22 games. Who knows though with all the people still defending them just like they defend mad. Mad amusements can rape the next door neighbors wife, torture their family pet, steal their identity and take a shit on a deceased family members grave and there will always be people that will defend him. Maybe we have a similar situation here? A simple picture would shut a lot of people up in here. Think of all the negatives this thread is doing to his company. If I was him, I would have been in here posting a picture of anything to try and calm this down. Hell post a picture of an empty box. What will only make it worse is if he comes on here and tries to post an explanation of why the games were not built yet and then give a future time frame when they will. If that happens, I will bring the popcorn.

None it seems. As you mentioned his worshippers support him no matter what. 200 plus games in the US prepaid for still not shipped years later with a perfectly good factory selling games to new money coming in. This mess which he has been given a huge pass on yet the fact that game numbers were gone long before should show he knew something was up.
I dont get it.

th.jpg

Very interesting.

I can't believe I am saying this, but that just might not be enough. I think we will need at least 3 of those

I am in for an LE I just need to know where to send my preorder money.
Any idea on a time frame for delivery?

You might want to try a bit of this for your discomfort.

Creme_max_340.jpg

blah.jpg

Sorry! Couldn't help it

I hate to continue to feed the beast this thread has become, but consider the following:

1. Jack has recently acquired equity partners.
2. This indicated JJP likely needed a little fiscal help.
3. The Aussie $130k was likely spent since he brought in equity partners.
4. JJP does not legally have to repay a cent until a court tells him so. It us possible a court will never order him to do so.
5. Jack has said he wants to ship machines to repay the debt in moral grounds.
6. Jacks equity partners likely disagree without a court order.
7. Jack could be stuck and needs profits to entice his equity partners to support what they may view as a foolish gift.
8. Threads bashing JJP are scaring away prospective buyers...WoZ and Hobbit.
9. This would cost JJP profits and the very leverage he is trying to use against his equity partners.
10. If JJP equity partners don't agree, the games never ship.

Not saying I have inside info but this appears to be a very reasonable, and I think likely scenario. JJP success is the likeliest scenario to help the Aussies get their machines. Bashing may be hurting the cause we all are rooting for.

Thanks, your "feeding" (aka, speculation) should keep this thread going at least the rest of the day/night.

Logistics of this has already been worked out, not an issue. Getting the machines built and sent is.

Everyone who made a purchase has been contacted and forwarded their receipt of purchase. A list of names,addresses,phone numbers etc has been made a long time ago. Everything is in order.

I thought this deal did not come through?

Hey tracelifter . . . . what was the name of that movie from which you posted the excerpt? Tricking the woman into buying aluminum siding. That could be a good one to watch some time.
Thanks,
Mike in Kentucky (yes . . . it's ME! Still sorry about that board not working for my TZ).

I agree the communications has become a mess, but jack may be trying to get stubborn and push his partners around by saying it's the right thing to do. Whatever is going on is not simple. This is undoubtedly a very "human" issue. Wishing you all the best and hoping for a quick resolution.

What partners? That deal fell through. At least all evidence suggests it did.

I hadn't heard it fell through I just remember he press release announcing it. Not sure if that would be better or worse.

Yeah, try to find any reference to it now. That presser disappeared, Jack stopped talking about it, and gave ambiguous enough answers about it the one time he mentioned it again to presume it went south.

Jersey Jack Pinball, Inc. Enters Into An Equity Partnership With The Investment Banking Arm Of JDA

Lakewood, New Jersey - January 15, 2014 - Jersey Jack Pinball, Inc., the industry leading designer and manufacturer of premium, no-compromise pinball machines announces that they have entered into an equity partnership with the investment arm of JDA.

The founding group of JDA has a proven track record of success and generated over $40 million dollars for their shareholders in their last transaction.

This partnership will now enable Jersey Jack Pinball, Inc. to have the resources to fund multiple game platforms, expand into related technologies and markets, and to provide a catalyst for growth. It further provides Jersey Jack Pinball, Inc. with deeper management and financial resources.

"We are very excited to combine the strengths of these two dynamic organizations. The expanded talent, experience and financial strength that this brings will enhance the future products we are able to build and add to the enjoyment of our player base." said Jack Guarnieri, Jersey Jack Pinball, Inc. Founder.

The principals at JDA are true pinball enthusiasts as well and personally own over 40 pinball machines including Jersey Jack Pinball, Inc. world renowned The Wizard of Oz Pinball Machine.

About Jersey Jack Pinball, Inc.

Jersey Jack Pinball, Inc. was founded in 2011 with a passion to build premium, no-compromise pinball machines. Games built with passion and games that are fun to play which will become treasured for years to come. The first game that Jersey Jack Pinball, Inc. is building is The Wizard of Oz Pinball Machine. The game is now in full production with more than 700 games shipped as of December 2013. More games are popping up in commercial locations and in home game rooms all around the world. The company is in development of The Hobbit Pinball machine which will ship late in 2014.

About JDA

JDA is a private holding company developed for the purpose of transitional holdings of interest, incubation and performance of advisory services associated to the business interests of its shareholders. The shareholders of JDA have companies in the technology space including servicing the blind and developing critical mass computer applications, holdings of over $10 million in real estate, interests in gold and silver mining, a world class training facility for gymnastics and all star cheer, and consulting services that tailor to the telecom, data and technology sectors.

Contact

Jen Guarnieri, Marketing Coordinator

Jersey Jack Pinball, Inc.

1645 Oak Street Lakewood, NJ 08701

P: (732) 364-9900 Ext 203

[email protected]

In America we call it wild speculation.

And this is called speculation.

And this is called more wild speculation.

Um....yeah. Where have you been since that day? That disappeared from JJP's site and Jack made ambiguous remarks about it afterward.

Without any communication, facts, discourse, or any of the "openness" promised during the process, what more do we have than speculation?

Everything is in order according to who?

Tin Men.

No biggie on the board, what was the problem with the game?

so this deal fell through? i never heard anything else on the matter officially and assumed it was still in place.

Is assuming as bad as speculating?

There is a thread where right after it disappeared on the site folks asked and Ja k came on saying lots except if it was still in place even when asked very clearly

There was a ton of discussion afterward. Nothing else was ever said about it, and then someone noticed a few weeks later that the press release had disappeared from the website. I don't recall exactly what Jack said regarding it, and it if was here or at the WOZ Owners Forum, but it essentially boiled down to we weren't ever in the red and we are moving forward with production regardless of what happened.

Look, like it or not....like me or not.....Jack could clear 3 years worth of questions up with a snap of his finger and five minutes constructing a post on his own machine owners' forum. He has been telling everyone that the LE run is finishing up for damned near a year now. That's after he was two years late on production to begin with. The Aussies got royally screwed, and Jack made public statements and guarantees (for what a Jack guarantee is worth, see: WOZ Production Guarantees and History). Where is he? What's the deal now? Where are the 200-ish LEs that his own 60-90 day clock started about 120 day ago?

In the absence of information, speculation is what we got. Sorry. But that is true. People come sniffing around here looking for info on WOZ or Hobbit, and they deserve to know the whole truth of the matter. Not just the blown sunshine from the people that have given the company an eternal free pass just because he lit a fire for pinball under their asses. The Aussies are the ones with the equity in this particular issue. And the ones with skins on these walls. If they have differences of opinion about how to rectify their situation, they have the right to hash it out. But screw anybody spitting on someone that got caught up in this nightmare and telling them that they don't have the right to speculate or even demand some information.

3 years

Sorry gambit but the only thing Jack can do at this point is deliver on the game it has gone be beyond talk.

Personally I don’t believe there can be much speculation on legal rights to the money. There are only two parties with a potential claim. One is the collective of the 79 affected customers and the other is JJP. The administrators for the closure of Bumper v2 have already stated that they have no interest in the money and they are the ones dealing with the outstanding debtors and creditors.

At the very least JJP has been aware of the Bumper situation for almost a year. I find it very hard to believe that he would not have sought legal advice very quickly to confirm what legal obligation or exposure JJP would have. And I don’t think that he would have agreed to any deal at all whether it be to refund the money or build the games without his legal advisors confirming that JJP would not open themselves up to risk of legal action and potential financial loss from other parties.

My understanding is that JJP chose to provide machines to the value of the funds they held rather than return the money. Obviously this makes business sense as it would be cheaper for them to provide “at cost” machines at the retail rate and this would also leave them with the cash as operating capital. Again I don’t think that this decision would have been made without legal advice being sought.

I’m also not sure that JJP would have a legal entitlement to the money as a non-refundable deposit as I didn’t think that there were non-refundable deposits for customers. This would mean that distributors would have to expose themselves to potential financial penalty as they would have to provide a refund to the customer and JJP could retain the money already paid as a deposit. Add to that the fact that JJP has already sold the machines that this money was initially for so they have already received payment for those machines.

If JJP doesn’t want potential customers scared off due to negative posts they could provide updates rather than remaining silent. It has already been shown that people will be patient and tolerant to a point. Clear and open communication would have increased this patience.

Speculation is will jack finish the run of WOZ LE games?

PlayerOne: Where the f#$%#$% are our 22 Wozes
JJP: We have top men working on them right now
PlayerOne: WHO?!
JJP. TOP MEN.

399.jpg

See you tommorow Indiana Jones

That is not speculation. Instead, that is merely a poorly worded question.

Are you sure Jack will come through how's the game you made payments on 39 months ago playing.

Ouch