(Fixed) WCS, flippers dead, but work in ball search.

OP
Quoted from PghPinballRescue:
Working on a basket case WCS.
I've gotten everything working so far except for the flippers.
In switch test, the entire column of the switch matrix is dead. Both flipper switches and both EOS switches. (can't test the other pairs since WCS only has 2 flippers).
The optos are working as I am able to see a change in logic all the way back through the fliptronics board up to the ribbon cable that leads to the MPU when I push either flipper button.
I have voltage at the coil.
The MPU board is brand new.
The security chip and ASIC are also brand new.
No issues with audio or display, so I don't think its a ribbon cable issue.
So from what I can tell, the flipper switches are being detected by the fliptronics board, but the MPU is failing to see it and report it.
Ideas?

Make sure your ribbon cables are not off location or the signal input will not be there

#3 2 years ago

BJW

PghPinballRescue

Quoted from eyeamred2u:
Make sure your ribbon cables are not off location or the signal input will not be there

Thank you. I did check that as well. All looks good. I am also not missing any pins on the headers.

#4 2 years ago

KJO

eyeamred2u

Pinside+ Frequent

OP
Quoted from PghPinballRescue:
Thank you. I did check that as well. All looks good. I am also not missing any pins on the headers.

Checked the fuses on the Fliptronics board? Grounded the associated transistors on the board to see if flippers fire?

#5 2 years ago

BJW

PghPinballRescue

Quoted from eyeamred2u:
Checked the fuses on the Fliptronics board? Grounded the associated transistors on the board to see if flippers fire?

Yes and no. Not super familiar with problems on this board, but I assume I ground the tabs the same as I would a Bally driver board?

#6 2 years ago

KJO

eyeamred2u

Pinside+ Frequent

OP
Quoted from PghPinballRescue:
Yes and no. Not super familiar with problems on this board, but I assume I ground the tabs the same as I would a Bally driver board?

Yes, very quickly. Rule out the obvious.

#7 2 years ago

BJW

PghPinballRescue

Flippers DO NOT activate when I ground the tabs on any of the TIP36C.

However, in ball search mode, the flippers DO activate.

#8 2 years ago

KJO

eyeamred2u

Pinside+ Frequent

https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Leon_Borre_WPC_Fliptronics_board_repair

OP
Quoted from PghPinballRescue:
Flippers DO NOT activate when I ground the tabs on any of the TIP36C.
However, in ball search mode, the flippers DO activate.

Have you read this document on how to bench test a fliptronics board?

Are your flipper opto boards old? Can you disconnect the soccer motor board and see if your flippers work?

#9 2 years ago

BJW

PghPinballRescue

Quoted from eyeamred2u:
Have you read this document on how to bench test a fliptronics board?
https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Leon_Borre_WPC_Fliptronics_board_repair
Are your flipper opto boards old? Can you disconnect the soccer motor board and see if your flippers work?

I was going to follow those instructions, but I don't have the resources to build the little test board he uses.

I will try unplugging the motor board. What are your thoughts on why that would fix the issue? Is there some sort of connection between the 2?
The motor board seems to work fine because the Goalie does go back and forth as he should.

#10 2 years ago

ZAZ

zaza

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10y 92,650 3,266

When you go into switch test T.1, pull J905 and J906. Then make a short between pins 1 and 6 on both headers.
Does that activate switch F1 and F2 in the switch test ?

#11 2 years ago

BJW

PghPinballRescue

Quoted from zaza:
When you go into switch test T.1, pull J905 and J906. Then make a short between pins 1 and 6 on both headers.
Does that activate switch F1 and F2 in the switch test ?

Nope. We tried that with all 8 switches (4 optos and 4 EOS) even though the machine only has 2 flippers....just to be thorough.

#12 2 years ago

ZAZ

zaza

Pinside+ Frequent

10y 92,650 3,266

If possible, swap Fliptronic2 or ribboncable to see if that solves the communication between the boards

#13 2 years ago

KJO

eyeamred2u

Pinside+ Frequent

OP
Quoted from PghPinballRescue:
I was going to follow those instructions, but I don't have the resources to build the little test board he uses.
I will try unplugging the motor board. What are your thoughts on why that would fix the issue? Is there some sort of connection between the 2?
The motor board seems to work fine because the Goalie does go back and forth as he should.

I want to see if their is a parasitic draw happening, If I remember correctly, their is an opto for the goalie and that is tied on that flipper line and may indicate that your flipper opto(s) are indeed bad but appear to read good somehow. It is a longshot, but at this point, what have you got to lose. Something is either gobbling input voltage or drawing it on the back end.

#14 2 years ago

KJO

eyeamred2u

Pinside+ Frequent

Quoted from zaza:
If possible, swap Fliptronic2 or ribboncable to see if that solves the communication between the boards

I like the thinking here as well zaza

#15 2 years ago

BJW

PghPinballRescue

Quoted from zaza:
If possible, swap Fliptronic2 or ribboncable to see if that solves the communication between the boards

I have one on the way. I have no other machines in the shop at the moment that have the same cable.

#16 2 years ago

BJW

PghPinballRescue

New ribbon cable came in today.

No change.

EOS and flipper optos are still not registering in switch test. That whole column is non-responsive.

#17 2 years ago

BJW

PghPinballRescue

Posting the resolution here in case someone else encounters this oddball behavior.

Issue was resolved by replacing U5 on the fliptronics board. It is a 74HCT244.

#18 2 years ago

KJO

eyeamred2u

Pinside+ Frequent