(Topic ID: 229472)

WCS 94 blowing fuse 104

By Occelot

5 years ago


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  • 20 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by Pin_Guy
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 5 years ago

Hey guys, recently picked up a WCS94. Fuze 104 3a SB is blowing. This is solenoids 9-16 I believe.

It blows when I turn the machine on after it boots up.

What I've done to debug:

-Plugged in J127, Unplugged J107, powered on : no blow.
-Plugged J107 In, Unplugged J127 : no blow.
-Measured pin 3 of J107 connector, on OHMS -> got OL . (for all pins on that connector)

Whats weird is after I plugged both connectors back in ... no blow for about 5 minutes of game play (blew once stuff started going crazy in the game - final draw - multiball or something), IT didn't just blow, the whole thing shut off. - whereas last night it was blowing as described above.

Any thoughts?

Thank you

#2 5 years ago

Check for coil lugs close enough to anything metal that may short.

LTG : )

#3 5 years ago

Did you see the edit above where the whole machine restarted?

#4 5 years ago
Quoted from Occelot:

Did you see the edit above where the whole machine restarted?

Yes, dead short could do that before fuse blows or short stops.

LTG : )

#5 5 years ago
Quoted from Occelot:

Hey guys, recently picked up a WCS94. Fuze 104 3a SB is blowing. This is solenoids 9-16 I believe.

It's not, this is likely your biggest error in troubleshooting this issue. F104 should be your low power solenoids, now if you were blowing F105, you looked at the right items.
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EDIT:

...or maybe it is, I now have too much conflicting information to help.
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Man with 1 watch always know what time it is; man with more than 1...never quite sure.

#6 5 years ago

haha, thanks pin guy. I got my info from the pin up in the back box. I know that for a STTNG it's pin 2 of 105 (saw similar issue on STTNG in forums)

Going to look under playfield tonight with fresh eyes.. Unfortunately, I'm out of 3A-SB fuses :/ plenty of 7a /8a /3a fast acting though .. I actually have 3A-FA fuses in F101,2,3 and 5 because I stole their slow blows for testing F104

#7 5 years ago

Oh it should be noted (which is weird..) is with F104 removed, the trough actually loses power .. But that isn't affiliated with J107 pin 2 or F104 at all, but F105 and J107 pin3 in the diagram above..

#8 5 years ago

Have you OHM'd out the coils on F104? I had a similar problem on my RFM. One of my pop bumper coils was bad and would blow the fuse when activated, it looked just fine no swelling, no burnt wrapper, good solder connections, but it would blow a slo-blow fuse instantly.

As for the other weirdness you are experiencing, do you mean the trough coil loses power, or the entire trough board loses power?

#9 5 years ago
Quoted from Occelot:

Oh it should be noted (which is weird..) is with F104 removed, the trough actually loses power ..

I don't find this weird, it just provides more more credibility that the actual A-12697-X schematics shown in the first 2 images in my above post are correct and your problems are tied to the low power solenoids 1-8 and NOT the high power solenoids (9-16) as listed in your manuals fuse listing (last image) from my post above.

If you want to confirm which fuse goes where, just remove both F104 and F105 and then do a resistance check between the trough coil and the supply side of the F104 and F105; only the fuse powering the device will have continuity, the other will read open.

#10 5 years ago
Quoted from Pin_Guy:

If you want to confirm which fuse goes where, just remove both F104 and F105 and then do a resistance check between the trough coil and the supply side of the F104 and F105; only the fuse powering the device will have continuity, the other will read open.

I went ahead and did this for you on the board side...
Any references you have that list F104 connecting to J107-3 are incorrect. There is no doubt whatsoever that J107-2 is powered by F104, which according to your game manual is connected to solenoids 1-8, and not solenoids 9-16 as shown in your fuse listing.

Image below: A-12697-3 Power Driver Board that is listed in your game manual as being the installed power board.
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#11 5 years ago

So in your theory, would it be true for solenoid #9 in test solenoids to blow F104? Because that happend.

And thank you for your help, Jean-Luc.

#12 5 years ago
Quoted from Occelot:

So in your theory, would it be true for solenoid #9 in test solenoids to blow F104? Because that happend.

Yes. If sol #9 gets its source voltage from J107-2.

Your manual page 3-6 and your fuse list on page 1-45 contradict each other on which solenoids are powered by which fuse. Only one of these two pages can be correct and since I don't own this game, the only thing I can say with absolute certainty is if you are blowing fuse F104 then the source voltage for any ground checks is J107-2 not J107-3.

The point I'm trying to make here, is that unless you confirm what solenoids are actually connected to what source voltage, you really have no way of knowing, but you should be able to confirm this by the wire color alone which makes it super easy to check.

#13 5 years ago

So, I took the coil paper off sol #6 and it looks like the coil wiring was split and it was sticking out - shorting the 50vdc. I attempted_ to fix it by sand papering the insolation off and soldered it back to the lugs - after which it had conductivity at both pols of the solenoid .. but still blows the fuse. (though the test sol 1 - 8 DO NOT blow the fuse any more.) So I ordered the sol from pinball life. Will let you guys know it that did the job.

Thanks for the contradicting, humor laden advice

Grant

#14 5 years ago

hey Pin_Guy , in theory, if the solenoid itself is causing the short, I should be able to remove the solenoid, and splice the wires (50+vdc) from the lugs together and it shouldn't blow the fuse right? Figured I'd run this by you before I tried it.

#15 5 years ago
Quoted from Occelot:

hey pin_guy , in theory, if the solenoid itself is causing the short, I should be able to remove the solenoid, and splice the wires (50+vdc) from the lugs together and it shouldn't blow the fuse right? Figured I'd run this by you before I tried it.

Yes, but there is really no reason to do that as you can isolate this by measuring the resistance of the coil, this should be an AE 26-1200 and have a resistance of around 11 ohms. and you can measure the resistance of the return (Brown-Black wire) to ground, which should be open when not energized.

1 year later
#16 4 years ago

Just reasding this post as I have a similar issue. Not sure if I should start a new thread or work on here.

i've followed Pin_Guy advice and checked out J107. I get no continuity on any of the pins in the female plug. So I assume that means no short there?

I get F104 AND F105 blow instantly on turn on with J107 plugged in. So both high and low solenoid circuits.

I have tested J130 and J127 for continuity, dont get anything there on the short front.

I do have LED3 on the Powerboard ALWAYS ON, I see thats not meant to be the case...I shall rty and find something on that next I think!

#17 4 years ago
Quoted from Biglouie:

Just reasding this post as I have a similar issue. Not sure if I should start a new thread or work on here.
i've followed pin_guy advice and checked out J107. I get no continuity on any of the pins in the female plug. So I assume that means no short there?
I get F104 AND F105 blow instantly on turn on with J107 plugged in. So both high and low solenoid circuits.
I have tested J130 and J127 for continuity, dont get anything there on the short front.
I do have LED3 on the Powerboard ALWAYS ON, I see thats not meant to be the case...I shall rty and find something on that next I think!

Is your game the same? World Cup soccer

#18 4 years ago
Quoted from pinmike:

Is your game the same? World Cup soccer

;0) Arrrr, it isn't.. Its The Getaway HS2... A good point!

But similar board and plugs?

Pulling J107, which looks to have the same solenoid actions, doesn't blow the fuses.

I have no more fuses, so I'm too scared to plug it in and try it, after checking there was no continuity..

#19 4 years ago

Really it is better to start your own thread. It makes it easier to search and find the repair thread by game name.

#20 4 years ago
Quoted from Biglouie:

Just reasding this post as I have a similar issue. Not sure if I should start a new thread or work on here.

Start a new thread; with everything connected normally, measure your resistance between the load sides of F104 and F105, with the fuses removed to verify these aren't shorted together...post this information in your new thread.

Quoted from Biglouie:

I do have LED3 on the Powerboard ALWAYS ON, I see thats not meant to be the case...I shall rty and find something on that next I think!

Ignore it, LED 2 and LED3 are suppose to monitor high/low voltage conditions on your unregulated 18V circuit.

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