(Topic ID: 65734)

Waterslide Decal Help

By loppydog

10 years ago


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  • 34 posts
  • 12 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 10 years ago by Big_Bob
  • Topic is favorited by 4 Pinsiders

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#1 10 years ago

Hi guys, I am trying to repair a decal on an insert on my FGY. I ordered the clear WaterSlide decal paper only to find out later that white cannot be printed! I figured it could be done on a professional laser printer, but I was wrong. I could order white decal paper, but then the clear areas would have to be cut out which would be very difficult. I am hoping someone with some experience could give me some suggestions in this case. The inside of the "N" is white, but the outside is clear. Here is the decal I am trying to print:

N.pngN.png

#2 10 years ago

Print the circle on clear and apply, and then print "N" on white, trim and apply on top of circle decal perhaps?

#3 10 years ago

Have a local hobby shop print it for you.

They have decal printers that print white, silver and gold.

#4 10 years ago

I called my local hobby shop and they have no idea what i am talking about...lol. And it is a decent sized shop. I also called every print shop in my area and they said they cannot print white.

#5 10 years ago

I have the Createx paint set, but I am not sure if it is a good Idea to try to paint on the white.

#6 10 years ago

Can you have the 'N' part printed out on a white decal. And have the rest printed on a clear decal minus the 'N'. Then cut out the 'N' and put it on top of the clear decal? It is kind of a hack but that should work.

#7 10 years ago

Yeah I have though about that, but I don't have any white paper(I was stupid I could have ordered half clear and half white). And I am not sure it is a good idea to "stack" decals.

#8 10 years ago

There are some laser printers/alps printers that will so white.

#9 10 years ago

You can stack decals fine. A lot of times with inkjet waterslides you end up printing doubles and stacking them to take the transparency out of the black. I usually wait about 24 hours between decals.

#10 10 years ago

What if you painted the "N" in white directly onto the insert, then placed the decal over it? Maybe you could use another insert decal as a stencil. Cut the "white" part out of the "N" place it on the insert and fill it in with white paint and remove the decal stencil. When the paint is dry apply the new insert decal on top of it. You would probably want to use decal setting solution so the decal conforms to any irregularities in the insert. I know that's probably not the easiest way but it may be a good option since your local printers can't print white.

#11 10 years ago
Quoted from Whridlsoncestood:

There are some laser printers/alps printers that will so white.

Right, you need to ask them if they have an ALPS printer. They no longer make them, so it's getting harder to find places that will do those prints. You can order from someone online. I'm waiting for a decal from someone right now, and the communication has sucked, so sadly I can't recommend.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MicroDry

Edit: I'd personally do what spaceport suggested myself.

#12 10 years ago

Thanks spaceport I think that may be my best bet at this point. I wonder if the painted white part can be a little larger and the black will cover it nicely? I would think that when the insert shines from underneath it may be noticeable though.

BTW, my decal paper is for laser printers.

#13 10 years ago

Another thing I was wondering, is if I tried to print slightly off-white. I am assuming that wouldn't work either because the printer would still not be able to make that color...correct?

#14 10 years ago
Quoted from loppydog:

Another thing I was wondering, is if I tried to print slightly off-white. I am assuming that wouldn't work either because the printer would still not be able to make that color...correct?

Correct.

#15 10 years ago
Quoted from loppydog:

Thanks spaceport I think that may be my best bet at this point. I wonder if the painted white part can be a little larger and the black will cover it nicely? I would think that when the insert shines from underneath it may be noticeable though.
BTW, my decal paper is for laser printers.

So a few things. First off, laser decals are the way to go, that's good. Inkjet ink is generally pretty prone to fading. There are some archival inks, but they often need a special paper to sit right, not sure how they'd work with water slides.

Secondly, you're right, you're probably going to see the white/black transition when it lights up if you bleed the white into the black. What would be much better would be to bring the white all the way to the outside edge of the black. Then you won't get that effect, and your black will stay opaque, so it's win win.

Here's what I would do:

Luckily you're dealing with a simple shape that's all straight lines. If you want to do it right then stop by your local art supply store or possibly hobby store, call first, and pick up some frisket. Or order it online. Frisket is masking film, it's tacky and will stay down, but won't leave a residue behind.

Lay out some frisket over the insert, and then mask off the rest of the playfield with some masking tape and newspaper or something to be safe. Then print out the N on plain paper and cut out the circle, get it lined up over the frisket so it's in the right spot (the frisket is clear, you'll be able to see). Tape it lightly in place. Then you can use an Xacto and a straightedge to cut the N shape through the paper, use enough pressure to go through the frisket without pressing hard.

Pull up your laser printed N and the piece of frisket you cut out and you'll have the whole interior N shape. Ideally you'll airbrush it white with Createx acrylic white, after it dries hit it with a hair dryer. Then you're ready to waterslide your decal over it, get it lined up right and you should be set.

You'll need to do something to protect the decal, normally you'd clear coat over it, but I imagine a circle of mylar would work.

#16 10 years ago

Thanks Aurich. I have read Vid's guide already, so I have some of that info. Another idea I had was to carefully cut out the white part of the decal before soaking it. Then once it is in place and dry use the edges of the decal to carefully paint up against.

#17 10 years ago

I purchased an Alps printer to do just what you are trying to do. I needed the colored insert on the EATPM which is Elvira on her knees. It came out great.

Basically, the Alps will lay down a background color (in this case white) before the artwork.

I have not used it in a couple of years but I have a decal to do for someone else. Send me a PM if you want me to print it for you. Might be a few weeks though since I will be out for the next two.

Bob

#18 10 years ago

I would probably paint the white on the insert and then apply the decal over top. Just make the white N a bit wider so that the black lines on the decal will over lap. This way you also don't have to be super accurate with making the edges perfectly straight. If you paint on top of the decal you will have to worry about keeping inside of the lines.

#19 10 years ago
Quoted from LongJohns:

Just make the white N a bit wider so that the black lines on the decal will over lap. This way you also don't have to be super accurate with making the edges perfectly straight.

You'll see that sloppy line work every time the insert lights up. Maybe if you layer black decals it will hide it.

#20 10 years ago

Thanks for the offer Big Bob. I may take you up on that if I fail on my current endeavor.

#21 10 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

You'll see that sloppy line work every time the insert lights up. Maybe if you layer black decals it will hide it.

Ok, thanks for the info. Never done it myself but will keep in mind now that the lines would have to be somewhat straight.

#22 10 years ago
Quoted from dankme:

Can you have the 'N' part printed out on a white decal. And have the rest printed on a clear decal minus the 'N'. Then cut out the 'N' and put it on top of the clear decal? It is kind of a hack but that should work.

Deja Vous!

#23 10 years ago

I played around with the clear decals and I am not happy with the way they look. The ink looks way too transparent compared to the surrounding inserts. I think I will try to just paint it. If it turns out good I will post before and after. If it doesn't, I will just clean the paint off...no harm.

#24 10 years ago
Quoted from loppydog:

I played around with the clear decals and I am not happy with the way they look. The ink looks way too transparent compared to the surrounding inserts. I think I will try to just paint it. If it turns out good I will post before and after. If it doesn't, I will just clean the paint off...no harm.

That's why you want the white under it.

#25 10 years ago

Yeah I should probably just order some of that stuff...

#26 10 years ago

Mmmmm, frisket, arghhhhghgh!

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#27 10 years ago

I couldn't locate frisket here here locally. I am going to cut out some stencils today with my CO2 laser here at work out of painters tape. If that doesn't work very good I may have to order frisket online as well.

#28 10 years ago

Careful, painters tape won't give you as clean a line as frisket. Can't hurt to try though.

#29 10 years ago

Yeah I am expecting to not like the end result of painting it. I am most likely going to buy the white waterslide paper. One other issue that i am fighting is that there is some of the old "decal" (screen print or whatever) still in place. I don't want to remove it because I am using it as a tool to line up the new one. The problem is that so far everything I have tried I cannot blend the two together and make it look good. I know the right thing to do is to completely remove the old layer and start fresh, but I won't have anything to line up.

#30 10 years ago

Is this white translucent or opaque?

I ask- because I have been dealing with your problem on a much much larger scale but using a different approach. I have re created the entire bonus region graphic for a Bally PlayBoy in Adobe Illustrator and am cutting stencils and respraying the entire graphic top to bottom using the stencils to re create the graphics and spraying using paints custom matched to the existing play field. Given my couple months of hard fought experience, I can suggest a number of things here.

If the white is opaque, you can simply re spray this over the top of the old by creating a white stencil and a black stencil- apply white stencil- spray, remove- dry, apply black- spray, remove, dry, and then either clear coat or cover it somehow but mylar will likely pull up paint when its removed. If the white is translucent, your probably going to have to completely remove it if its damaged at all, and re-do either with the printing suggestions mentioned and discussed previously, or you can mix up a translucent white from Createx colors and use stencils...

IF you go the stencil route- trust me and my hard fought experience here, get a real stencil material and have a sign shop cut it for you if you do not have access to something that can do this. Use transfer tape to apply, lightly but firmly press to seal (pressure sensitive but we do not need to hammer on it for this purpose just lightly press down with perhaps more pressure on the painted edges). I have tried many things for stencils and there is absolutely no way to get this to work well, easily, and reproducibly with anything other than a true stencil material.

Just my 2c.

The quality of the job you can get with stencils and an air brush is very very high indeed, so no worries on that end... but it does take some practice to get the work flow down.

#31 10 years ago

I am not sure which white you are referring to, but if you are talking about the waterslide material, I am not sure. I would have to order it to find out. I have access to a laser so I can to cut out anything I need. Do you know what this "stencil" material is that you are using?

#32 10 years ago

I use GerberMask Ultra II - I can look up the exact catalog # if you want it, I have the medium tack material- it is white and has a slightly rough texture to the top. It is very easy to work with, cuts like butter, and yields razor sharp lines on spraying- just peel the stencil as soon as the paint looses its wet sheen, DRY IT with the stencil on- do not even think about letting it dry for even 10 mins, peel it up as SOON as its mostly not wet (a little wet is MUCH better and just fine) if you let it dry it will then peel up large chunks of paint from the edges of the line as the paint will not break along the line your pulling up... DRY the paint after you peel.

With respect to the white, I actually was referring to the color as it appears on the insert. I assume this is back lighted, so I was asking if the white shows up as a translucent white that is allowing a lot of light through. I have not done this exactly, and I was thinking about how much light would come through a sprayed opaque White color over a lighted insert I would guess that some would come through (a lot possibly, with a single coat)- but it might bear testing.

#33 10 years ago

Yeah the white on the insert is translucent. The paint that I am using is not, that is why I think I am not a fan of the look of the paint. I have given up on painting it because I cannot get a result I am happy with. The insert is back-lit, so matching that is a pain. I have ordered the white waterslide decal and I will be trying that as soon as it comes in. I am hoping that the white waterslide paper will match the white insert translucency.

If I am unsuccessful in this last attempt, I think I will just leave it for someone with more experience. I have to accept my artistic limitations . I plan on putting this machine up for sale soon, as I am going to make room for something bigger and better!

4 months later
#34 10 years ago

I am working with the Alps printing some decals now. If you want a waterslide decal printed on clear with a white printed center then let me know. Should be easy if you have the artwork (vector format best).

Bob

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