(Topic ID: 24760)

Was starting JJP a good idea?


By pindome

7 years ago



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  • 178 posts
  • 77 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 years ago by absocountry2
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    #101 7 years ago

    Yawn... just make the game.

    #102 7 years ago
    Quoted from pinball_keefer:

    Hopefully that clears up some of the confusion.

    Some would read that as "trolling."

    KA - F-ing - POW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Trolling is way to politically correct.

    Well said....... now back to programing. P.P.E. is only 11days from now.

    #103 7 years ago
    Quoted from PinballHelp:

    I've never seen a hobby filled with so many haters. It's one thing to ask tough questions, but I continue to be flabbergasted at some of the mean-spiritedness and hostility some seem to have towards people and companies that have never really done anything wrong. Ok, so JJP is finding out that making a pinball machine takes more time than they thought, or they picked a theme you don't like. Is that really a reason to go on a rampage against them?

    The dependable voice of sanity.....succinctly stated and well said P.H.

    #104 7 years ago

    I haven't read the thread, but I'm going to reply to the topic.

    Yes, I think it was a good idea. The man is passionate about the hobby, and obviously had the means to start it up. If he makes a good product, and does a JJP #2, good for him. I'm very interested in what they're doing. I am also VERY interested in WOZ. I respect him for having the balls to try something a bit different. Will also reserve judgement until it's release. Will reserve final judgement after the sure to come updates.

    Not interested in the bitching. It's dumb. I'm thankful that Stern is here, glad JJP is coming along, and also excited for Skit(I think that's what it is) is trying as well.

    Seriously, we're lucky that all pinball didn't stop in 99. Dumb to complain about hiccups and growing pains.

    #105 7 years ago
    Quoted from AkumaZeto:

    For sure nope, sure dont but its not hard to put the pieces together. Say i need a new Honda can you help with that?
    The fact that you evade the subject matter is still suspect as well.
    Good luck sir and i hope we do see number 2 3 4 5 6 because it makes the other guy make better efforts with his games.
    Why don't you tell us Jack why he left so people dont speculate. You should have been on top of that right away. Nordman was thought to be a big big big part of your team and then we all hear he left.....
    It is our business as the pitch you gave us was he was getting a unlicensed theme and now thats gone.... you have pitched lots of BIG things that lots of us where on board for and we followed you with hope and glint in our eye.

    Why does Jack have to tell you anything? There is most likely a confidentially agreement between the parties......That means they may not be legally allowed to discuss the terms.

    When you say you were "on board" with Nordman do you mean you have capital invested in this company or in the Nordman game. NOT! Grow up... it's business..... things happen. Take your "hope and glint" and trade it for what the Scarecrow is looking for.

    #106 7 years ago

    Personally speaking I am glad that Jack entered the ring. At the rate Stern was cheapening up their games (at the time) we would have been playing a XMen zizzle by now. JJP starting up had a lot do do with Stern stepping up their game design and quality.

    We, the consumers have benefited tremendously by having new competition in the marketplace. We now have a choice between manufacturers and different games. If you don't like WOZ you now have the option to buy whatever Stern's next game is. AC/DC and Xmen are great games that might not be so good had JJP not thrown their hat in the ring. Good luck to both manufacturers.

    #107 7 years ago
    Quoted from LTG:

    I don't know if the plan has changed. At one point they were going to hand assemble the first games to learn the steps.
    Then hire 15 people and train them. Then go into production.
    LTG

    Who gets these "practice" games? Will they go to the first buyers, or maybe they will be the ones put out on location.

    #108 7 years ago

    Does worry me that the game designer is no longer on board, while the product is still unfinished - amicable or not.

    As for the whole 'haters' rubbish - NOT EVERYONE AGREES ON THINGS ALL THE TIME. You should see other communities I've been involved with, this is nothing - nothing at all, this is 2 stroppy kids in a sand pit by comparison.

    #109 7 years ago
    Quoted from RobertG:

    Who gets these "practice" games? Will they go to the first buyers, or maybe they will be the ones put out on location.

    No idea. Have to ask Jack.

    LTG

    #110 7 years ago
    Quoted from system11:

    Does worry me that the game designer is no longer on board, while the product is still unfinished - amicable or not.

    Dennis was not the game designer of WOZ.

    #111 7 years ago
    Quoted from pinball_keefer:

    Dennis was not the game designer of WOZ.

    Who is???

    #114 7 years ago

    Now i know why everybody talks about TSPP when talking about WOZ.... The rest of his resumé is a flop-fest.

    #115 7 years ago

    Get out of the thread Snowdale. You have no idea.

    I doubt anyone with half a brain would think that JJP's creation was a bad thing for pinball in general and I'd love to hear any theories on why it might be. The big question is, will Jack be able to turn JJP into a successful business and that is virtually impossible to say for a long time. He's already stated he's in this for the long haul and he may well lose money short term. I hope he's as successful as he needs to be so it keeps the pinball manufacturing community healthy.

    #116 7 years ago

    Actually, I thought Nordman would at least get some credit on WOZ and it sounded like he was part of the process even if Balcer was lead designer.

    #117 7 years ago
    Quoted from chocky909:

    Get out of the thread Snowdale. You have no idea.
    I doubt anyone with half a brain would think that JJP's creation was a bad thing for pinball in general and I'd love to hear any theories on why it might be. The big question is, will Jack be able to turn JJP into a successful business and that is virtually impossible to say for a long time. He's already stated he's in this for the long haul and he may well lose money short term. I hope he's as successful as he needs to be so it keeps the pinball manufacturing community healthy.

    Sorry.... I'll be over on the less edumacadid threads.

    #118 7 years ago
    Quoted from Snowdale:

    Sorry.... I'll be over on the less edumacadid threads.

    Snowdale. With that avatar you are welcome comment any way you choose and I will defend you to the last.

    Kim

    #119 7 years ago
    Quoted from Mr68:

    Snowdale. With that Avatar you are welcome comment any way you choose and I will defend you to the last.
    Kim

    Yea... I'm like WOZ, not much to say. But damn it looks nice!!!

    #120 7 years ago

    It's amazing how much less offensive even a completely idiotic post (as many of Snowdale's are ) when accompanied by a nice upskirt.

    #121 7 years ago
    Quoted from chocky909:

    It's amazing how much less offensive even a completely idiotic post (as many of Snowdale's are ) when accompanied by a nice upskirt.

    You must be the only person reading what Snowdale writes. I may try that someday.

    Kim

    #122 7 years ago

    Wow. You are SO not gay!

    #123 7 years ago

    To be completely honest... I kind of want one. But then again, I want them all.

    #124 7 years ago
    Quoted from chocky909:

    Actually, I thought Nordman would at least get some credit on WOZ and it sounded like he was part of the process even if Balcer was lead designer.

    I had heard the game was designed by someone else (but didn't know who), but I also thought at the very least the left outlane pop bumper was Nordman. I had heard he wanted to use it on POTC, but it got turned down.

    TILTed post. Sign in to be able to view TILTed posts.
    #126 7 years ago

    I just noticed my comments got edited/deleted due too being personal??? If thats the case, this thread should have been closed in the beginning. Look at the origonal title. How are my comments any different? Almost all the comments are personal.

    I provided valid feedback and others agreed. I pointed out observations that Jack said publically.

    Jack,
    If you talk publically, stick to a safe script. Stick to the facts. If not, you going to find hypocritcal statements throughout. People are going to question your statements when expectations aren't meant. Providing any kind of feedback should be taken as a good thing.

    Robin,
    To delete my comments, just makes it look like a political JJP support move imo. That's sad, if that's the case.

    Either way, your house, your rules. Although, it seems that rules can be easily swayed when pressured.

    #127 7 years ago

    All pinball design is a co-operative effort, it's not one guy sitting in a room doing drawings then plunking it down saying here it is I'm sure there are plenty of Dennis's ideas, Greg's as well, that helped shape the game. Whether he gets official design credit or not is up to Jack, but his signature is on the topper, so he is most definitely a part of the game.

    On the subject of one of my favorite pinball artists, Greg Feres, his leaving was disappointing to me, but after thinking about it for a while, it occurred to me that JJP probably didn't want to have their first 2 games done by the same artist, and to have someone of Greg's prowess just sitting around waiting until a third game would be just silly. I look forward to seeing what he comes up with at Stern.

    #128 7 years ago
    Quoted from Tommi_Gunn:

    I just noticed my comments got edited/deleted due too being personal??? If thats the case, this thread should have been closed in the beginning. Look at the origonal title. How are my comments any different? Almost all the comments are personal.
    I provided valid feedback and others agreed. I pointed out observations that Jack said publically.
    Jack,
    If you talk publically, stick to a safe script. Stick to the facts. If not, you going to find hypocritcal statements throughout. People are going to question your statements when expectations aren't meant. Providing any kind of feedback should be taken as a good thing.
    Robin,
    To delete my comments, just makes it look like a political JJP support move imo. That's sad, if that's the case.
    Either way, your house, your rules. Although, it seems that rules can be easily swayed when pressured.

    You should send Robin a case of wine as a thank you for deleting most of your post. The way it is edited now you look a lot let less foolish. It's your lucky day go buy some lottery tickets if you win you can start your own pinball company and we'll see what you can produce....

    #129 7 years ago

    Ah, thanks for the corrections - I thought Nordman had designed WOZ! Never even heard of Joe Balcer until now. That's a so-so resume, but A13 is a game I recently started to enjoy (sadly one flipper died just yesterday...)

    #130 7 years ago
    Quoted from pindome:

    You should send Robin a case of wine as a thank you for deleting most of your post. The way it is edited now you look a lot let less foolish. It's your lucky day go buy some lottery tickets if you win you can start your own pinball company and we'll see what you can produce....

    It should have never been edited. Don't worry, I got edited after it was read by all. It left an impression, followed by a typical damage control statement. There is all truth in all those comments. It was never meant to be cruel or mean. It was feedback that is shared by many that are greatly disappointed with the outcome so far. After all this time, the game is not earth shattering whatsoever. It is far from a game changer. Criticism should be expected.

    JJP publically threw many people under the bus along the way, vendors, woz licensing approvers, and stern etc. JJP saying people are haters, is just as ironic as calling the kettle black.

    As far as my comments...If it was about me and my company, I would print it, frame it, and place it on my desk. Everyday it would remind me to raise the bar and follow through. You can curl up in the fetal position when criticized, and call everyone haters, or strive to keep your word, talk less and provide an earth shattering game. That's all any of us want. A company is only as good as it's product. Right now, it's not good imo. It's as exciting as watching a Disney parade. Kids and senior citizens will enjoy it. Can't say those are the included in the majority of hardcore pinball enthusiasts.

    With all due respect JJP, stick to building a supposed game changer. Leave the other details for the book.

    #131 7 years ago

    You certainly made an impression. The end result is folks think you are a miserable grumpy D.B. Enjoy that well deserved stigma.

    P.S. Frame this and put it in your desk. It will remind you to think about what you write before you do so.

    #132 7 years ago

    I think competition will make both companys strive harder to make better pins and hopefully make it better for the players when a company does not have any competition they get into a slump making same pins over and over and never trying anything new so hopefully jack does well

    #133 7 years ago
    Quoted from pindome:

    Tommi_Gunn said: Jack Guarnieri isn't an idiot, he's a salesman. He's passionate about selling games. Jack Guarnieri - The Tony Robbins of Pinball
    So is what you are saying is that Jack fakes a genuine personal relationship with his customers to entice them to buy his hyped product?
    You said Jack is "lots of talk but little action".... is what we are seeing now with this new company, built from the ground up "little action"?
    Tommi Gunn,
    Care to comment on the above three questions, did I interpret your remarks correctly?

    After numerous attempts to get a rise Alex, I guess the squeaky wheel needs a little grease.

    My comments are cut and dry. It doesn't take a scholar to figure them out. Read between the lines Pin. I shouldn't have to spell everything out. If you have a hard time interpreting them, I can't imagine how baffled you'd get with English Literature. You'd be analyzing Shakespeare for months.

    #134 7 years ago
    Quoted from Pinchroma:

    You certainly made an impression. The end result is folks think you are a miserable grumpy D.B. Enjoy that well deserved stigma.
    P.S. Frame this and put it in your desk. It will remind you to think about what you write before you do so.

    I like your pindome account better

    #135 7 years ago
    Quoted from Tommi_Gunn:

    I like your pindome account better

    Thank You since we are two different people, sorry Alex he likes me better.

    I understand english pretty well, what I have trouble understanding is your motivation for such vicious personal attacks on Jack and his company. To call him a charlatan and that he fakes personal relationships to sell pinball games is so sad and so very far from the truth as evidenced by how many repeat customers / friends bought into this game sight unseen.

    FYI --- Shakespeare = Earl of Oxford

    -1
    #136 7 years ago
    Quoted from Tommi_Gunn:

    I like your pindome account better

    That's nice. I like Pindome too.. I'm not him though, keep flailing.

    I do think you bringing up someones family when the original quote was meant in jest shows a complete lack of class. You sir, seem to be trash.

    I realize you were trying to get a rise out of me which is why I never responded to the thread or the topic of it. But I couldn't miss the opportunity to call a spade a spade (or in your case a D.B. a D.B.).

    #137 7 years ago

    I'm sorry but most of these JJP fanboys are nice. I bet they stand up
    For Jack more than there own family's.

    PS: After reading my post, don't forget to look at my avatar.

    Post edited by absocountry2 : Profanity edited

    #138 7 years ago
    Quoted from Snowdale:

    I'm sorry but most of these JJP fanboys are nice.

    I really wonder how much of this comes down to white collar as compared to blue collar (or whatever you want to call these socioeconomic issues)

    Post edited by absocountry2 : Profanity edited

    #139 7 years ago
    Quoted from Snowdale:

    PS: After reading my post, don't forget to look at my Avatar.

    Achievement Unlocked!

    #140 7 years ago

    I can't wrap my mind around the JJP bitching. I really can't. If you don't like it, don't buy it. Doesn't mean it should not exist.

    Unreal stupidity.

    #141 7 years ago

    I'm sorry but most of these JJP fanboys are nice. I bet they stand up
    For Jack more than there own family's.
    PS: After reading my post, don't forget to look at my Avatar.

    143099_o.gif

    #142 7 years ago

    Dont forget keith really had a lot of input in the design of the game. IMO

    #143 7 years ago
    Quoted from pindome:

    Was starting JJP a good idea?

    Yes.

    #144 7 years ago
    Quoted from DrainO:

    I can't wrap my mind around the JJP bitching. I really can't. If you don't like it, don't buy it. Doesn't mean it should not exist.
    Unreal stupidity.

    The empty cans rattle the most.

    #145 7 years ago

    Just responding to the title: If you look at how the pinball landscape has evolved since JJP was announced, it sure was a good idea.

    #146 7 years ago
    Quoted from unigroove:

    Just responding to the title: If you look at how the pinball landscape has evolved since JJP was announced, it sure was a good idea.

    I disagree... this LE crap is bs.

    Post edited by absocountry2 : Profanity edited

    #147 7 years ago
    Quoted from Snowdale:

    I disagree... this LE crap is bs.

    The LE's were out before JJP existed. That was Stern's thing. Maybe Jack had some push in getting the LOTR LE made as it has been rumored, but that was before JJP was discussed publicly.

    #148 7 years ago
    Quoted from DCFAN:

    The LE's were out before JJP existed. That was Stern's thing. Maybe Jack had some push in getting the LOTR LE made as it has been rumored, but that was before JJP was discussed publicly.

    Sorry... the current state of LEs.

    #149 7 years ago

    Was starting this topic a good idea?

    #150 7 years ago
    Quoted from Plungemaster:

    Was starting this topic a good idea?

    *snicker*... I love this place.

    Kim

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