(Topic ID: 24760)

Was starting JJP a good idea?


By pindome

7 years ago



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  • 178 posts
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  • Latest reply 7 years ago by absocountry2
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    #1 7 years ago

    I thought about the topic title for quite a while realizing it could be construed as defamatory but I wanted to get your attention.

    Edit: I do consider this defamatory and a needless insult so I have changed the topic title. - robin

    Here is a guy who has been in the industry for nearly 40 years. His passion for pinball is exemplary! He gets a crazy idea that he may be able to do something different than what we have seen for the last 10+ years. Not necessarily better but for sure different. I don't think Jack needs the money or the headaches but he really loves pinball and has a vision to try and provide all of us with something a little different.

    He rolls the dice and starts up a manufacturing company in the middle of one of the deepest recessions our country has every experienced selling very expensive toys that nobody needs. The business model for that is insane. He beats the odds and sells all 1000 LE's based pretty much on his passion & reputation (according to many here not based on theme). And if you want your money back because you see something you don't like, call him and the check is in the mail.

    We will all be beneficiaries of Jack throwing his hat into the ring (except the company that had a monopoly) as two competitors will push each other to produce better and more imaginative games well into the future.

    Would we as the pinball community prefer that no early pictures or video were released until just prior to shipment? I think not and there would be so many less posts on Pinside. Of course it is ok to comment on what you like and don't like but to continuously bash on the items that are still being worked on may lead to a different policy for JJP #2 and any thought of Stern going with a more open policy on their future games. And God forbid he misses a self imposed deadline for 1000 potential reasons........release the hounds!

    Here is the part where we have to determine whether Jack is an "Idiot" or not,

    The guy has sold all 1000 LE's and has a waiting list if anyone wants to drop off. He does not need to make any videos of unfinished games to try and convince anyone to buy an LE. The standard games are months away and the finished LE's will provide great marketing to sell the standards to those that have an interest.............So why would Jack release these videos of the game that is not yet finished and open himself and his team up to these relentless brutal critiques of items that are not yet finished?

    My guess is to keep his buyers informed on his progress providing loyalty to the faith the early buyers showed in Jack. We know it is not to sell more LE'S. Why take the heat Jack? Is it worth it?

    I love your passion, I love what you are doing for pinball and I love what the future now holds for all of us! But you my good friend my be an Idiot....

    Of course Jack is no idiot and he sure as hell has lot more asbestos in his skin than I ever will.

    For the record I enjoy the videos ........ even the sideways ones : ))

    #2 7 years ago

    i'm so confused...

    -jon

    #3 7 years ago

    It is all a great conspiracy by Jack and his cohorts

    #5 7 years ago

    I'll go on the record and say Jack is dumb as a fox.

    #6 7 years ago
    Quoted from pindome:

    So why would Jack release these videos of the game that is not yet finished and open himself and his team up to these relentless brutal critiques of items that are not yet finished?

    Because there are plenty of people who are actually buying the machine that enjoy seeing that stuff. The game will speak for itself when it's done and if it's great then all the haters will shut up. Stern never releases anything except maybe a teaser and even then people still bitch and complain. I like how Jack constantly keeps people updated and feel his approach is better then knowing absolutely nothing like you do with Sterns.

    #7 7 years ago

    Ha... my thoughts too Kwik

    #8 7 years ago

    Funny part is I had to google his full name...no idea what the hell was going on. I thought Jack was his last name

    #9 7 years ago

    Nothing to see here, carry on!

    #10 7 years ago

    Jack is by his own words, "either the dumbest guy in the world or the smartest". That's quite the dichotomy.

    EDIT: I forgot to add this ---> <---- Without that one little cryptic any post on an Oz thread is a potential landmine!

    #11 7 years ago

    I thought his first name was Jersey

    #12 7 years ago

    Successful business man, entrepreneur, gambler and pinball lover.
    Not too much of an idiot of you were to ask me.

    #13 7 years ago

    I was positive this was going to be a eggbert poll.

    #14 7 years ago

    I think it takes a mad man/idiot or whatever you want to call the guy to "starts up a manufacturing company in the middle of one of the deepest recessions our country has every experienced selling very expensive toys that nobody needs."

    In the end... few years down the road.. us as a pinball comunity will thank him for his bold moves!

    I welcome JJP to the manufactoring business with open arms and we will all benefit from it!

    #15 7 years ago

    If he didn't put out constant info, he would be an idiot and people would flame him for being a scheister. If he does put out the info, he is an idiot and people would flame him for being incompetent. Either way he can't win. You can't please everyone so you might as well do what you think is best.

    There are three ways to build something; Fast, cheap or well. At most you can only have two. From the get go Jack said his mission statement was to build the best pinballs he could. Anyone who thought he would be able to stick to his original timeline when they pre-ordered was seriously deluding themselves.

    #16 7 years ago
    Quoted from DynamiteSJ:

    In the end... few years down the road.. us as a pinball comunity will thank him for his bold moves!

    I wish there were more people with his balls and money Go Jack GO!!

    #17 7 years ago

    I guess if jjp is successful it will be against all odd - oh wait isn't that the name of a song

    #18 7 years ago

    Jack Guarnieri isn't an idiot, he's a salesman. He's passionate about selling games.

    -content removed-

    Jack Guarnieri - The Tony Robbins of Pinball. I wouldn't be surprised if he had a coal walk at the next convention.
    tony-robbins3.jpg

    Post edited by robin: please don't make it personal.

    #19 7 years ago

    Starting a business during a recession is not crazy at all. Many people are successful doing just that, plus pinball is hot right now. Prices are rising and people are paying the higher prices. Eventually we will come out of the recession and you will have a business up and running when that happens.

    #20 7 years ago

    Jack is pretty far from being an idiot.

    He is pretty sharp.

    He builds up a large customer base in North America and Europe.

    Coin op is in a slump and he has people with money wanting to buy stuff and he doesn't have much to sell.

    So he starts his own company to fill a need - have something to sell to the customers he has.

    LTG

    #21 7 years ago

    Is it me or do we see more brand new members starting odd threads? Just an observation. Carry on.

    #22 7 years ago
    Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:

    I'll go on the record and say Jack is dumb as a fox.

    Crazy like a fox...

    #23 7 years ago
    Quoted from Tommi_Gunn:

    Jack Guarnieri isn't an idiot, he's a salesman. He's passionate about selling games.

    Jack Guarnieri - The Tony Robbins of Pinball

    So is what you are saying is that Jack fakes a genuine personal relationship with his customers to entice them to buy his hyped product?

    You said Jack is "lots of talk but little action".... is what we are seeing now with this new company, built from the ground up "little action"?

    #24 7 years ago
    Quoted from pindome:

    is what we are seeing now with this new company, built from the ground up "little action"?

    Kinda.

    #25 7 years ago
    Quoted from Tommi_Gunn:

    Jack Guarnieri - The Tony Robbins of Pinball.

    Good one!

    #26 7 years ago
    Quoted from Tommi_Gunn:

    Jack Guarnieri isn't an idiot, he's a salesman. He's passionate about selling games.

    I hope the game works out great and leads to more....but seeing him in person this is very much what I thought as well.

    #27 7 years ago

    Very Easy for all of us to be an arm chair critic.

    Personally, I find Jack to be honest, and passionate for what he is doing.

    At the bottom end, sure there is money, but Jack didnt do this only for that reason.
    He has invested a ton, been beaten up by many, and is persevering to complete what he started.
    I think even if you dont like him, or the game, We all owe him a standing ovation for trying to advance pinball when we we are in fear of it dying with nothing new.
    In that regard, it affected Gary, and we owe him respect for actually being able to get 2 titles out a year!

    Where would we all be without Stern ever making a game, No Jack, and nothing new.
    Heros to me, as I am in business, and have only a small taste of how hard their jobs are.

    #28 7 years ago
    Quoted from coasterguy:

    Is it me or do we see more brand new members starting odd threads? Just an observation. Carry on.

    I agree. Threads that make me wonder how many accounts Gary Stern/ Stern employees have on Pinside.

    #29 7 years ago

    Pinball as a hobby will benefit from another pin maker. If we could have at least two competition should ensue which could be a good thing. imho JJP needs to succeed to further the hobby.

    #30 7 years ago

    It seems to me that he's been very open about the process form the beginning. Openness is always a good trait when you're handling someone else's money.

    Yes, it's a little like watching sausage being made, but I don't think anyone could reasonably accuse him of trying to cheat people. As frustrating as putting up with these delays must be for those who ordered, how much worse would it be if the whole process was a secret?

    In the end I hope to see him release a terrific machine, having earned the trust of the collector community in the process.

    #31 7 years ago

    I've been asked on a few occasions what led me to create the ColorDMD. My typical response has been "Because I'm an idiot."

    When you consider the enormous cost and complexity of developing a pinball machine, and the very narrow available market and volume with which you have to recoup that investment, it's a small miracle that anyone is dopey enough to create or even work in this business. It's passion that drives this industry (more than good business sense) and a desire to create something unique and truly great.

    Yes, Jack and Gary are both idiots, as are all the game designers, artists, and engineers who continue to dedicate their talents to contribute to this insane industry. Props to the idiots.

    #32 7 years ago

    The only idiots are the ones who post on these forums that Jack does not know what he is doing, is going to rip them off, and who flap their jaws with statements like "the game will never be made".
    Jack is being honest about the cause of his delays and doing his best to insure that he does not get the reputation that Wayne got from not providing updates and ignoring his buyers and critics. He certainly has more things to do than to answer every individual critic. But at least Jack is responding to questions and providing updates. I don't want to slam Stern because they have finally stepped up their quality issues, but try getting any updates from Stern on the progress of an unmade game.......

    #33 7 years ago

    I was waiting for this crap to officially start. I actually think that nobody should manufacture pinballs anymore because the majority of this community (not Pinsiders the hobby as a whole) is a bunch of complainers. Stern can't make a good quality machine WAAAHHHH. Where's my code WWWAAAHHH. Now people are getting on JJP? JJP is taking a new approach to the business and I think its great. To show the product through the development cycle is awesome. I can't wait for all the flaming on the Skit-B crew when people have a speck of dust in their clearcoat.

    #34 7 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    I agree. Threads that make me wonder how many accounts Gary Stern/ Stern employees have on Pinside.

    None. They have better things to do.

    LTG

    #35 7 years ago
    Quoted from LTG:

    None. They have better things to do.
    LTG

    Plus, they might be restricted due to company policies and legal issues

    #36 7 years ago
    Quoted from Dmod:

    I've been asked on a few occasions what led me to create the ColorDMD. My typical response has been "Because I'm an idiot."
    When you consider the enormous cost and complexity of developing a pinball machine, and the very narrow available market and volume with which you have to recoup that investment, it's a small miracle that anyone is dopey enough to create or even work in this business. It's passion that drives this industry (more than good business sense) and a desire to create something unique and truly great.
    Yes, Jack and Gary are both idiots, as are all the game designers, developers, and engineers who continue to dedicate their talents to contribute to this insane industry. Props to the idiots.

    Well stated Dmod,

    Nuance is not lost on a fellow neighbor (D.P.) Must be something in the air that came out of the reactor.

    #37 7 years ago

    Jack posted videos of his product publicly. Someone posted them here. This is a forum. People comment in forums. I'll comment on them. The current videos show major problems shooting the main ramp. The game does not look fun like that. If that causes a newcomer to write a 10 paragraph rant, so be it.

    #38 7 years ago
    Quoted from exflexer:

    I was waiting for this crap to officially start. I actually think that nobody should manufacture pinballs anymore because the majority of this community (not Pinsiders the hobby as a whole) is a bunch of complainers. Stern can't make a good quality machine WAAAHHHH. Where's my code WWWAAAHHH. Now people are getting on JJP? JJP is taking a new approach to the business and I think its great. To show the product through the development cycle is awesome. I can't wait for all the flaming on the Skit-B crew when people have a speck of dust in their clearcoat.

    There are complainers in everything out there. You are on a forum where people have discussion, arguments, and praise. Don't be angry that people won't conform to your line of thinking. I personally think complaining and pressure help to make machines amazing. If everyone was always content we would have shitty products.

    #39 7 years ago

    About three weeks ago, JJ said that he had spent $2.5 mil on the game. So far, he has sold at least 1000 games at a minimum of $6500 each. You do the math.

    #40 7 years ago
    Quoted from hlaj78:

    About three weeks ago, JJ said that he had spent $2.5 mil on the game. So far, he has sold at least 1000 games at a minimum of $6500 each. You do the math.

    I don't think that's a realistic number. So the math says he's collected at least 6.5 million. That money is not as cut and dry as that. If he has companies producing all the different parts they will be interchangable on future games. So in a sense he's spent that money but it is for more than just WOZ. On the other hand if it flops and he folds up shop then it was only spent on WOZ.

    #41 7 years ago

    YOU DON'T KNOW JACK .... !!!!

    Kim

    #42 7 years ago

    Seriously...

    #43 7 years ago

    Yeah but that spending will go up pretty steeply once manufacture starts properly.

    #44 7 years ago
    Quoted from kwiKimart:

    Seriously...
    SHUT UP!

    Have you thought about just not reading the threads? Gotta love people going on to discussion threads just to tell people to shut up. A bit like going to a club and complaining about the loud music.

    #45 7 years ago
    Quoted from chocky909:

    Have you thought about just not reading the threads? Gotta love people going on to discussion threads just to tell people to shut up. A bit like going to a club and complaining about the loud music.

    I meant to post that in a humorous way. Like anyone can read body language on Pinside.

    #46 7 years ago
    Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:

    I'll go on the record and say Jack is dumb as a fox.

    #47 7 years ago
    Quoted from coasterguy:

    Is it me or do we see more brand new members starting odd threads? Just an observation. Carry on.

    When I first read that I thought it said odd members starting new threads.

    #48 7 years ago
    Quoted from navajas:

    Jack is by his own words, "either the dumbest guy in the world or the smartest". That's quite the dichotomy.
    EDIT: I forgot to add this ---> <---- Without that one little cryptic any post on an Oz thread is a potential landmine!

    LMAO! So true...

    #49 7 years ago

    I stopped ready 3/4 thru...
    Basically my only complaint is that they didn't post a damn video a day!
    1 damn video a day of raw footage of SOMETHING isn't hard JJ!

    #50 7 years ago

    The biggest mistake he made was under estimating the time it would take to deliver and continually missing subsequent dates. Not a fan of WOZ, but hope they do well so there will be a second pin with a more appealing theme.

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